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[#24855] Ambient occlusion and Environmental lighting

Date:
2010-11-22 10:13		 Priority:
3
State:
Closed
Submitted by:
terence cattrell (tmcthree) 		Assigned to:
Brecht Van Lommel (blendix)
Category:
Rendering		 Status:
Fixed / Closed
Relates to:
Duplicates:
Patches:
 
Summary:
Ambient occlusion and Environmental lighting
Detailed description
Hi,
There seems to be a problem when combining AO and environmental lighting. This thread gives a more detailed explanation and provides some files to look at.

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=202879&p=1741840#post1741840

Followup

Message
  • Date: 2010-11-22 16:46
  • Sender: Ton Roosendaal
  • Terence: it would help us much better if you follow the reporting guidelines. Having a clear and redoable case here is crucial first step to fix issues, including a bug reporter who gives us examples and replies to tests and can verify issues.
  • Date: 2010-11-22 19:27
  • Sender: terence cattrell
  • Hi Ton, the reason I directed you to the thread on blender artists is that it contains several example pictures and a blend file which demonstrates (repeatably) the issue. But more importantly it also confirms the issue is present on the Mac build as well. I can only test on the linux 64 build which I know is broken at the moment so I thought a test on another os would be of interest.

    I shall include the .blend file here. Render it with and without shadows and/or AO. I think it's giving very odd results when shadows are off or ambient occlusion is off and shadows are on.

    If you do not have it already you will have to download the uffizi_probe.hdr from here.

    http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/Probes/

    Attached images.
    1 No shadows or AO = Renders as I would expect.
    2 No shadows but AO on = Its all black. Not what I would expect at all
    3 Shadows on and AO off = Well it basically looks like AO is still on.
    4 Shadows on and AO on = Seems to confirm my suspicions about 3 as it's identical, indicating that AO is on when shadows are on.

    As I mentioned, someone on the thread I directed you to tried rendering on a mac and the problem seems to show up there too.
  • Date: 2010-11-23 15:18
  • Sender: Ton Roosendaal
  • I have no idea where to start looking... you have many options there together, what is meant to be doing what?
    Cant you just disable using hdr probes, no raytrace transparency, no environment lights, and so on, until the simple error with AO and shadow shows?

    Even though we added a lot of features in blender, unfortunately not every combination of every feature works predictably...
  • Date: 2010-11-24 02:32
  • Sender: terence cattrell
  • How am I supposed to know that this particular combination of features isn't supposed to work?

    I've explained in detail what combinations of environmental effects seem to go wrong and provided you with a blend file which demonstrates the problem and images of the problem as manifested in the render. I'm not sure what else I can do.

    If you don't think it's a problem, then fine, move on, but don't whine at me for bringing it to your attention you sensitive little flower.
  • Date: 2010-11-24 10:31
  • Sender: Jose Conseco
  • I had similar problem. This is more than one bug, and this report is just combination of them.
    There is how it could be simplified:

    bug 1: when shadows are OFF (disable AO because it is buggy, and complicates things), object with ray traced transparency receives Env Light event when it shouldn't. So in file "RayTraceTransp_EnvLight_bug1" (http://www.pasteall.org/blend/4271) transparent sphere receives EnvLight no matter if shadows are ON or OFF.

    bug 2: In above file disable EnvLight. You will see that sphere with raytraced transparency still shows world texture. Maybe not bug but looks weird and it is probably part of problemm 1.

    bug 3: if you disable shadow (Env Light off, for simplification), when you increase AO up to 1.0 render gets darker - to black. See in file noShadow_AO_bug3 (http://www.pasteall.org/blend/4272).

    There is also another bug: http://projects.blender.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=498&aid=23918&group_id=9
    that may be connected to general problems with compositing shadows, AO end EnvLights.
    In the end these problems affects mostly transparent objects, when shadows are OFF.
  • Date: 2010-11-24 12:42
  • Sender: Ton Roosendaal
  • Jose: thanks for the analysis, I'll ask Brecht to further investigate it.

    Terence: Pinning cases down to the simplest error case is half the work of bug fixing, a good way for users to help coders handling over 100 of reports per week efficiently.
  • Date: 2010-11-26 04:51
  • Sender: Brecht Van Lommel
  • Fix in svn for bug 1 & 3. Number 2 is not a bug, transparency is not supposed to be influenced by this.
 

Attached Files:

Name Date Download
aoprob1.blend 2010-11-22 19:27 Download
AO no-Shadows no.jpg 2010-11-22 19:27 Download
AO yes-Shadows-no.jpg 2010-11-22 19:27 Download
AO no-Shadows yes.jpg 2010-11-22 19:27 Download
AO yes-Shadows yes.jpg 2010-11-22 19:27 Download

Changes:

Field Old Value Date By
ResolutionInvestigate2010-11-26 04:51blendix
close_date2010-11-26 04:512010-11-26 04:51blendix
status_idOpen2010-11-26 04:51blendix
assigned_tonone2010-11-24 12:42ton
CategoryNone2010-11-24 12:42ton
ResolutionNone2010-11-24 12:42ton
File Added13738: AO yes-Shadows yes.jpg2010-11-22 19:27tmcthree
File Added13737: AO no-Shadows yes.jpg2010-11-22 19:27tmcthree
File Added13736: AO yes-Shadows-no.jpg2010-11-22 19:27tmcthree
File Added13735: AO no-Shadows no.jpg2010-11-22 19:27tmcthree
File Added13734: aoprob1.blend2010-11-22 19:27tmcthree