Blender crash when using particle system #102830

New Issue

Peter Ekberg · 2022-11-28T13:34:36+01:00

Peter Ekberg commented

2022-11-28 13:34:36 +01:00

I have been away for a while,
I guess the case is still open.
I will send you the blend file. Some material is missing. But I do not think this is a problem.
katten.blend

I have been away for a while, I guess the case is still open. I will send you the blend file. Some material is missing. But I do not think this is a problem. [katten.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14104716/katten.blend)

Peter Ekberg commented

2022-11-28 13:34:36 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Enar

Peter Ekberg commented

2022-11-28 13:35:58 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: Ventura 13.0.1
Graphics card: Radeon Pro Vega 48 8GB

Blender Version 3.3.1
Broken: (example: 2.80, edbf15d3c0, master, 2018-11-28, as found on the splash screen)
Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected)

This problem occurred both using MAC OS Monterey and latest Ventura OS.

You apply the particles "Hair" on a surface.
You change the materials for the Hair and the surface.
You start to adjust the shape of the Hair using the handels in the particle edit mode. Then suddenly Blender crash.
This problem does not seam to have anything to do with the MAC OS. So is this a bug or is it a problem with my IMAC?

System Information Operating system: Ventura 13.0.1 Graphics card: Radeon Pro Vega 48 8GB Blender Version 3.3.1 Broken: (example: 2.80, edbf15d3c044, master, 2018-11-28, as found on the splash screen) Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected) This problem occurred both using MAC OS Monterey and latest Ventura OS. You apply the particles "Hair" on a surface. You change the materials for the Hair and the surface. You start to adjust the shape of the Hair using the handels in the particle edit mode. Then suddenly Blender crash. This problem does not seam to have anything to do with the MAC OS. So is this a bug or is it a problem with my IMAC?

Peter Ekberg commented

2022-11-28 14:53:05 +01:00

I made some more investigations.
It seams that Bender crashes if yo use the moduling tools in the particle edit menu in rendering mode.
So far it has not crashed if you edit the "hair" when Blender is in viewport solid mode.
For this reason I believe this is a severe bug in Blender.

I made some more investigations. It seams that Bender crashes if yo use the moduling tools in the particle edit menu in rendering mode. So far it has not crashed if you edit the "hair" when Blender is in viewport solid mode. For this reason I believe this is a severe bug in Blender.

Germano Cavalcante commented

2022-11-28 20:22:49 +01:00

Added subscriber: @mano-wii

Germano Cavalcante commented

2022-11-28 20:22:49 +01:00

This is a problem for some Mac systems.
We already have some reports involving hair and Mac:
#97542 (Regression: Hair Particles Freeze Entire MacOS!)
#83199 (Blender crashes when adding a particle system to a mesh object and switching the type to Hair)

In this report, as the problem happens when adjusting "the shape of the Hair using the handels in the particle edit mode", it is a different problem (but related).

This is a problem for some Mac systems. We already have some reports involving hair and Mac: #97542 (Regression: Hair Particles Freeze Entire MacOS!) #83199 (Blender crashes when adding a particle system to a mesh object and switching the type to Hair) In this report, as the problem happens when adjusting "the shape of the Hair using the handels in the particle edit mode", it is a different problem (but related).

Pratik Borhade commented

2022-11-29 06:03:48 +01:00

Added subscriber: @PratikPB2123

Pratik Borhade commented

2022-11-29 06:03:48 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs User Info'

Pratik Borhade commented

2022-11-29 06:03:48 +01:00

Hi, thanks for the report. Indeed looks related to above reports
@Enar, how many hair strand you've been using? Could you share your .blend file?
Please also upload crash logs file: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/troubleshooting/crash.html#macos
Have you tried this in previous blender versions? 3.0.0 for example

Hi, thanks for the report. Indeed looks related to above reports @Enar, how many hair strand you've been using? Could you share your .blend file? Please also upload crash logs file: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/troubleshooting/crash.html#macos Have you tried this in previous blender versions? 3.0.0 for example

Pratik Borhade commented

2022-11-29 06:20:12 +01:00

also see: #101632#1428230

Peter Ekberg self-assigned this 2022-11-29 10:03:57 +01:00

Peter Ekberg commented

2022-11-29 10:03:57 +01:00

I am very impressed that you answered so fast.
I will send you the blend file. I am new to Blender. I have been struggling so hard in order to understand how the software works.
Actually I have spent several weeks listening on different tutorials.
But I am on the edge of giving up. When Blender crashes un-expectly it is very difficult to use the software.

I have one idea why Blender crash this time. But I am probably wrong. It seams to crash when you are using the particle editor in rendered mode.
But! It does not crash all the time. Some times you can use the combe for a while and then go back to object mode . Then if you go back to particle edit again it sometimes just crash.
If you save the file before you use the particle editor (as I did in the file I send to you) and the re-load it you will not see any Hair in object mode. To see it you need to go into particle edit and the back again.
I believe that this last feature is not related to the real problem. It is more like that Blender hesitates to update the viewport correctly.
The more severe problem occurs when you use the Compe or just change the brush size in the particle editor and Blender just crash.

Now when you are here maybe you can answer another question. When you add a particle system to an object (in solid viewport mode) Nothing can be seen in the viewport. I mentioned this also above.

Another problem I have been struggling with is to put ”Hair” on a vertex group. For some reason I do not understand the ”Hair” spreads outside the vertex group I have assigned.
This is extreemly irritating. I have not yet found a work around to this problem. What is I doing wrong??
In the file you see see that I have been using 1000 stands. I have not tested Blender 3.0.0. Maybe I should???
However, It is the same problem using two different MAC OS (Monterey and Ventura).
Best regards
Peter Ekberg{F13978086}

I am very impressed that you answered so fast. I will send you the blend file. I am new to Blender. I have been struggling so hard in order to understand how the software works. Actually I have spent several weeks listening on different tutorials. But I am on the edge of giving up. When Blender crashes un-expectly it is very difficult to use the software. I have one idea why Blender crash this time. But I am probably wrong. It seams to crash when you are using the particle editor in rendered mode. But! It does not crash all the time. Some times you can use the combe for a while and then go back to object mode . Then if you go back to particle edit again it sometimes just crash. If you save the file before you use the particle editor (as I did in the file I send to you) and the re-load it you will not see any Hair in object mode. To see it you need to go into particle edit and the back again. I believe that this last feature is not related to the real problem. It is more like that Blender hesitates to update the viewport correctly. The more severe problem occurs when you use the Compe or just change the brush size in the particle editor and Blender just crash. Now when you are here maybe you can answer another question. When you add a particle system to an object (in solid viewport mode) Nothing can be seen in the viewport. I mentioned this also above. Another problem I have been struggling with is to put ”Hair” on a vertex group. For some reason I do not understand the ”Hair” spreads outside the vertex group I have assigned. This is extreemly irritating. I have not yet found a work around to this problem. What is I doing wrong?? In the file you see see that I have been using 1000 stands. I have not tested Blender 3.0.0. Maybe I should??? However, It is the same problem using two different MAC OS (Monterey and Ventura). Best regards Peter Ekberg{[F13978086](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F13978086/untitled.blend)}

Peter Ekberg commented

2022-11-29 10:12:59 +01:00

I forgot to send you the crash report
Here it is
Crash report.pages

I forgot to send you the crash report Here it is [Crash report.pages](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F13978108/Crash_report.pages)

Pratik Borhade commented

2022-11-29 11:08:10 +01:00

Hi, thanks for the information.

If you save the file before you use the particle editor (as I did in the file I send to you) and the re-load it you will not see any Hair in object mode.

That's different issue. see: #96949 (Particle hair (chilrden) not showing up on viewport - Blender 3.1)

In the file you see see that I have been using 1000 stands

Do you experience same crash/freeze with less hair stands?

I have not tested Blender 3.0.0. Maybe I should???

Yes, please: https://download.blender.org/release/

Call stack is same as mentioned in #101632 (Combing particle hair crashes Blender)

Hi, thanks for the information. > If you save the file before you use the particle editor (as I did in the file I send to you) and the re-load it you will not see any Hair in object mode. That's different issue. see: #96949 (Particle hair (chilrden) not showing up on viewport - Blender 3.1) > In the file you see see that I have been using 1000 stands Do you experience same crash/freeze with less hair stands? > I have not tested Blender 3.0.0. Maybe I should??? Yes, please: https://download.blender.org/release/ - - - Call stack is same as mentioned in #101632 (Combing particle hair crashes Blender)

Peter Ekberg was unassigned by Pratik Borhade

2022-11-29 11:08:21 +01:00

Peter Ekberg commented

2022-11-29 12:33:55 +01:00

I just tested using Blender 3.0.0 and 3.0.1 It is no difference. It crashes as before,
I also found that my "missing" particle system applied on the object could be seen if I clicked on it twice in the object used particle system list.
This object used three different systems. Only two of them showed up when starting Blender.
I also read the long investigation #96949. It did not gave so much.
I understand that you need to have the same hardware when you are testing eventual bugs in Blender. Just this fact makes this really problematic.
So I am now a bit scared regarding the future. I have found two issues now with Blender. But still there are no really good solutions.
The crashing issue can be worked around. But the problem that particle systems just disappears suddenly is not OK.
What is your advice??
Is it worth to continue using Blender? Ny experience so far har been so positive. But now when I really try to make "more advanced" models things starts to happen.

One more thing.
I had a question regarding putting hair on subsurfaces (vertex groups). I guess this is another issue. How should I proceed with this? This is maybe not a bug but I have tried to find tutorials etc regarding this but so far I have not found any explanation of why the Hair is spreading to neighbouring surfaces.

I just tested using Blender 3.0.0 and 3.0.1 It is no difference. It crashes as before, I also found that my "missing" particle system applied on the object could be seen if I clicked on it twice in the object used particle system list. This object used three different systems. Only two of them showed up when starting Blender. I also read the long investigation #96949. It did not gave so much. I understand that you need to have the same hardware when you are testing eventual bugs in Blender. Just this fact makes this really problematic. So I am now a bit scared regarding the future. I have found two issues now with Blender. But still there are no really good solutions. The crashing issue can be worked around. But the problem that particle systems just disappears suddenly is not OK. What is your advice?? Is it worth to continue using Blender? Ny experience so far har been so positive. But now when I really try to make "more advanced" models things starts to happen. One more thing. I had a question regarding putting hair on subsurfaces (vertex groups). I guess this is another issue. How should I proceed with this? This is maybe not a bug but I have tried to find tutorials etc regarding this but so far I have not found any explanation of why the Hair is spreading to neighbouring surfaces.

Pratik Borhade commented

2022-11-29 12:57:41 +01:00

Thanks for the info. Re: "disappearing particles" issue, can we move the discussion of it to a separate report or #96949, if they are same?
Re: crash, could you try to reproduce it with command line argument --debug-gpu-force-workarounds
Soon the old particle system will be replaced completely. You can try new hair system for now to prevent the crash: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Reference/Release_Notes/3.3/Nodes_Physics#Hair_System

I had a question regarding putting hair on subsurfaces (vertex groups). I guess this is another issue. How should I proceed with this?

If you think its a bug, feel free to open a new report. Otherwise you can ask in other community channels: https://www.blender.org/community/

Thanks for the info. Re: "disappearing particles" issue, can we move the discussion of it to a separate report or #96949, if they are same? Re: crash, could you try to reproduce it with command line argument [--debug-gpu-force-workarounds ](https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/advanced/command_line/arguments.html#debug-options:~:text=%2D%2Ddebug%2Dgpu%2Dforce%2Dworkarounds) Soon the old particle system will be replaced completely. You can try new hair system for now to prevent the crash: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Reference/Release_Notes/3.3/Nodes_Physics#Hair_System > I had a question regarding putting hair on subsurfaces (vertex groups). I guess this is another issue. How should I proceed with this? If you think its a bug, feel free to open a new report. Otherwise you can ask in other community channels: https://www.blender.org/community/

Peter Ekberg commented

2022-11-29 13:22:27 +01:00

How shall I do to test your suggestion above "-debug-gpu-force-workarounds"? What does it mean?
Do you open some kind of consol on the Mac and write the command there?

Is it possible to down load the "new" hair system? If so how? I read the release note and I understand they were talking about 3.3.

I hope to get some answers regarding the last question from the community.

How shall I do to test your suggestion above "-debug-gpu-force-workarounds"? What does it mean? Do you open some kind of consol on the Mac and write the command there? Is it possible to down load the "new" hair system? If so how? I read the release note and I understand they were talking about 3.3. I hope to get some answers regarding the last question from the community.

Pratik Borhade commented

2022-12-01 04:47:55 +01:00

@Enar hi, yes, you'd need to run the command through console

Is it possible to down load the "new" hair system? If so how? I read the release note and I understand they were talking about 3.3.

Please refer manual for that: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/3.5/modeling/curves/primitives.html#empty-hair

@Enar hi, yes, you'd need to run the command through console > Is it possible to down load the "new" hair system? If so how? I read the release note and I understand they were talking about 3.3. Please refer manual for that: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/3.5/modeling/curves/primitives.html#empty-hair

Pratik Borhade commented

2022-12-23 04:59:41 +01:00

Hi, any updates?

Thomas Dinges commented

2023-01-20 16:21:12 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Needs Triage'

Pratik Borhade commented

2023-03-10 12:03:42 +01:00

Hi, does this happen in 3.5 with Metal backend?: https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/
Multiple issues has been mentioned in this report which has made difficult to track the original problem. I'd suggest to open a new report with all necessary information if problem persists in 3.5.
(A guideline for making a good bug report can be found at https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Process/Bug_Reports)

Hi, does this happen in 3.5 with Metal backend?: https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/ Multiple issues has been mentioned in this report which has made difficult to track the original problem. I'd suggest to open a new report with all necessary information if problem persists in 3.5. (A guideline for making a good bug report can be found at https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Process/Bug_Reports)

Pratik Borhade closed this issue

2023-03-10 12:03:44 +01:00

Blender Bot added

and removed

labels 2023-03-10 12:03:45 +01:00

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