Action Editor: Animations no longer work after renaming bones. #104055

Closed
opened 2023-01-21 22:31:23 +01:00 by Alex · 20 comments

Information & Blender version
Windows 10, 64 bit, CPU integrated/no graphics card [doubt it's relevant but: AMD A8-7600 Radeon R7]
Broken Blender Version: 3.3.0, master, 2022-09-06, hash: 0759f671ce
No idea if it worked in a previous Blender version.

Description
This happens while using Action Editor and creating several actions to store different animations.
If at some point you rename bones, the action that is currently active will automatically update it's paths and continue to work, but any previous actions will not update their path and the animation will no longer play.

Fixing it requires either:

  1. manually changing the name of each affected path through the graph editor.
  2. Select the bone, select the affected channel under the action summary, temporarily change the name back to what it used to be, then change it again to the new name. This way the path gets updated.

Reproduce Error & File
You'll need to create at least 1 bone first.
Create an action [dope sheet/action editor] and make an animation.
Create a new action, make a new animation, and change the name of the bone. The action that is currently active continues to work, but any previous actions now have a broken path and no longer work.

In this file I made 2 actions with different animations, I had "Action 1" active while I renamed the bone form "Box" to "Bone". Now "Action 1" continues to work, while "Action 2" no longer plays.

For this test I changed the name of the bone while in pose mode through Bone Properties.

Important note: This seems to not happen all the time, I'm not sure why.
While making this file to recreate the issue, I first created both actions actions and animations, and I had "Action 2" active when I changed the bone's name from "Bone" to "Box". This seemed to create the error for a moment, but when I changed from "Action 2" to "Action 1" and back to "Action 2" it resolved itself and I was able to see both animations.
I then had "Action 1" active while I changed the name of the bone from "Box" to "Bone", and now the error persisted. [even after closing and reopening the file]

I made the test again with a new file [not attached] and the error persisted, I saved the file, closed it, and after re-opening the file the error was gone.
So it seems sometimes the paths get updated automatically and other times they don't.

BrokenActionTest.blend

**Information & Blender version** Windows 10, 64 bit, CPU integrated/no graphics card [doubt it's relevant but: AMD A8-7600 Radeon R7] Broken Blender Version: 3.3.0, master, 2022-09-06, hash: 0759f671ce1f No idea if it worked in a previous Blender version. **Description** This happens while using Action Editor and creating several actions to store different animations. If at some point you rename bones, the action that is currently active will automatically update it's paths and continue to work, but any previous actions will not update their path and the animation will no longer play. Fixing it requires either: 1) manually changing the name of each affected path through the graph editor. 2) Select the bone, select the affected channel under the action summary, temporarily change the name back to what it used to be, then change it again to the new name. This way the path gets updated. **Reproduce Error & File** You'll need to create at least 1 bone first. Create an action [dope sheet/action editor] and make an animation. Create a new action, make a new animation, and change the name of the bone. The action that is currently active continues to work, but any previous actions now have a broken path and no longer work. In this file I made 2 actions with different animations, I had "Action 1" active while I renamed the bone form "Box" to "Bone". Now "Action 1" continues to work, while "Action 2" no longer plays. For this test I changed the name of the bone while in pose mode through Bone Properties. **Important note: This seems to not happen all the time, I'm not sure why.** While making this file to recreate the issue, I first created both actions actions and animations, and I had "Action 2" active when I changed the bone's name from "Bone" to "Box". This seemed to create the error for a moment, but when I changed from "Action 2" to "Action 1" and back to "Action 2" it resolved itself and I was able to see both animations. I then had "Action 1" active while I changed the name of the bone from "Box" to "Bone", and now the error persisted. [even after closing and reopening the file] I made the test again with a new file [not attached] and the error persisted, I saved the file, closed it, and after re-opening the file the error was gone. So it seems sometimes the paths get updated automatically and other times they don't. [BrokenActionTest.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14181945/BrokenActionTest.blend)
Author

Added subscriber: @Aei-2

Added subscriber: @Aei-2
Member

Added subscriber: @lichtwerk

Added subscriber: @lichtwerk
Member

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs Developer To Reproduce'

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs Developer To Reproduce'
Member

Hm, this is not really a bug if I understand correctly.

While blender makes sure the name gets updated more or less everywhere it is used (see ED_armature_bone_rename), it is a different beast for this to go through all actions (that are not used)

NOTE: BKE_animdata_fix_paths_rename_all uses BKE_animdata_from_id -- but that only gives us the currently assigned action

I am not sure going through actions that are currently not in use and giving them the same treatment is a good idea.
How would blender know if this action is even intended to work on this ID/armature?

NOTE: as a workaround, you could still go in and manually rename the (red underlined, invalid) channels in the dopesheet to the new bone name and they should happily resume to a working state afterwards. To be 100% sure, you might have to call Channel > Revive Disabled F-Curves

So imho, this is not a bug, but will set to "Needs Information from Developers" so we can get proper feedback from the #animation_rigging module

Hm, this is not really a bug if I understand correctly. While blender makes sure the name gets updated more or less everywhere it is **used** (see `ED_armature_bone_rename`), it is a different beast for this to go through all actions (that are **not used**) NOTE: `BKE_animdata_fix_paths_rename_all` uses `BKE_animdata_from_id` -- but that only gives us the currently assigned action I am not sure going through actions that are currently not in use and giving them the same treatment is a good idea. How would blender know if this action is even intended to work on this ID/armature? NOTE: as a workaround, you could still go in and manually rename the (red underlined, invalid) channels in the dopesheet to the new bone name and they should happily resume to a working state afterwards. To be 100% sure, you might have to call `Channel` > `Revive Disabled F-Curves` So imho, this is not a bug, but will set to "Needs Information from Developers" so we can get proper feedback from the #animation_rigging module
Member

Added subscriber: @BClark

Added subscriber: @BClark
Member

This falls under remap or re-target actions between armatures. I am not yet sure of the best way to do this yet but it is on my list for the NLA roadmap.

Currently if the action is stashed/stored with the NLA and linked to the armature, when you rename a bone it updates the action.
If an action is just in the scene with no way to know or be linked to the armature then it won't update with the name change.

This falls under remap or re-target actions between armatures. I am not yet sure of the best way to do this yet but it is on my list for the NLA roadmap. Currently if the action is stashed/stored with the NLA and linked to the armature, when you rename a bone it updates the action. If an action is just in the scene with no way to know or be linked to the armature then it won't update with the name change.
Member

*so the current workflow without a custom rename script would be to attach all the actions to an armature and then rename the bone.

*so the current workflow without a custom rename script would be to attach all the actions to an armature and then rename the bone.
Author

Thank you for looking into this and explaining the reasoning for why it behaves the way it does, as well as other workflows to look into!
I didn't know about stashing/storing with the NLA. I don't really know about animation yet, I am using these actions for rigging the face, using the action constraint.

Is there a better place to ask how to link/attach actions to an armature? I didn't realize they were not linked, does it work just by stashing them in the NLA?

Thank you for looking into this and explaining the reasoning for why it behaves the way it does, as well as other workflows to look into! I didn't know about stashing/storing with the NLA. I don't really know about animation yet, I am using these actions for rigging the face, using the action constraint. Is there a better place to ask how to link/attach actions to an armature? I didn't realize they were not linked, does it work just by stashing them in the NLA?
Member

Changed status from 'Needs Developer To Reproduce' to: 'Confirmed'

Changed status from 'Needs Developer To Reproduce' to: 'Confirmed'
Member

I am marking this confirmed as it is what happens but not sure it falls under a bug.

It should work by stashing them from the action editor, the stash button is next to the action name. Once stashed you can see them in the NLA editor.

I am marking this confirmed as it is what happens but not sure it falls under a bug. It should work by stashing them from the action editor, the stash button is next to the action name. Once stashed you can see them in the NLA editor.
Author

However you guys proceed with this, thank you for looking into it, I may wish it updated automatically, but you are the ones that have to know if it could break things elsewhere.
Thank you for letting me know of a different way to deal with the issue I was running into, I'll start stashing my actions.

However you guys proceed with this, thank you for looking into it, I may wish it updated automatically, but you are the ones that have to know if it could break things elsewhere. Thank you for letting me know of a different way to deal with the issue I was running into, I'll start stashing my actions.
Philipp Oeser removed the
Interest
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label 2023-02-09 14:34:40 +01:00
Christoph Lendenfeld added
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labels 2023-10-31 16:27:02 +01:00

Please excuse my unfamiliarity with the correct terminology.

It should work by stashing them from the action editor

I'm not sure I understand this correctly, but it I think renaming bones has been breaking the animation of stashed (or pushed down?) NLA strips. Entering edit mode on an NLA strip after renaming a bone fixes the problem for this NLA strip.

I'm not describing a different bug, am I? With the behavior changing after entering edit mode or after re-opening the file like Alex described

after re-opening the file the error was gone.

makes it feel like a bug.

Please excuse my unfamiliarity with the correct terminology. > It should work by stashing them from the action editor I'm not sure I understand this correctly, but it I think renaming bones has been breaking the animation of stashed (or pushed down?) NLA strips. Entering edit mode on an NLA strip after renaming a bone fixes the problem for this NLA strip. <video src="/attachments/45b9cdb7-77a4-4b11-96f4-36f61d83eaba" title="rename.mkv" controls></video> I'm not describing a different bug, am I? With the behavior changing after entering edit mode or after re-opening the file like Alex described > after re-opening the file the error was gone. makes it feel like a bug.
Member

There does seem to be a sync/refresh issue there that I understood to be a different problem. This feels like something isn't updating as I would expect either. Thank you!

There does seem to be a sync/refresh issue there that I understood to be a different problem. This feels like something isn't updating as I would expect either. Thank you!

It is quite unexpected that the action fixes itself if you bring it into edit mode.
Maybe all that is needed then is trigger the correct sync after renaming, but that's just a guess without diving into the code

The new animation datablock will alleviate this issue somewhat because it can react to renames across all layers.

It is quite unexpected that the action fixes itself if you bring it into edit mode. Maybe all that is needed then is trigger the correct sync after renaming, but that's just a guess without diving into the code The new animation datablock will alleviate this issue somewhat because it can react to renames across all layers.
Member

Got a fix for this (I mean the NLA case), will double-check and post shortly...

Got a fix for this (I mean the NLA case), will double-check and post shortly...
Member

Got a fix for this (I mean the NLA case), will double-check and post shortly...

Fix is up, see !120292

> Got a fix for this (I mean the NLA case), will double-check and post shortly... Fix is up, see !120292

Great! Thank you Philipp. If it works I think this issue can be closed.

Great! Thank you Philipp. If it works I think this issue can be closed.
Philipp Oeser self-assigned this 2024-04-05 16:23:11 +02:00
Member

Great! Thank you Philipp. If it works I think this issue can be closed.

Since 2f67c45b65 is now in (4.2, not 4.1.1), how do we proceed?

@max-mustermann : feel free to comment again if issues persist in a fresh build from https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/

> Great! Thank you Philipp. If it works I think this issue can be closed. Since 2f67c45b650b7d575a0d9f275007fde7b5347efc is now in (4.2, not 4.1.1), how do we proceed? @max-mustermann : feel free to comment again if issues persist in a fresh build from https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/

Looks good. I think this can be closed.

Looks good. I think this can be closed.
Member

OK

OK
Blender Bot added
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labels 2024-07-10 06:24:36 +02:00
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