splitting an nla track prevents adding new keyframes outside of the clips bounds in tweak mode #106946

New Issue

Julieta Riley · 2023-04-14T14:02:28+02:00

Julieta Riley commented

2023-04-14 14:02:28 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19044-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 526.98

Blender Version
Broken: version: 3.5.1 Release Candidate, branch: blender-v3.5-release, commit date: 2023-04-05 07:29, hash: 8f3faae18bb8
Worked: unsure

Short description of error
splitting an nla track prevents adding new keyframes outside of the clips bounds in tweak mode

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
add armature
animate
push down
split clip
tweak clip
move playhead beyond clips bounds
attempt to add keyframe

video attached.

Thanks.

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19044-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 526.98 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 3.5.1 Release Candidate, branch: blender-v3.5-release, commit date: 2023-04-05 07:29, hash: `8f3faae18bb8` Worked: unsure **Short description of error** splitting an nla track prevents adding new keyframes outside of the clips bounds in tweak mode **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** add armature animate push down split clip tweak clip move playhead beyond clips bounds attempt to add keyframe video attached. Thanks.

nla split track bug.blend

853 KiB

2023-04-14 12-58-22.mp4

10 MiB

Julieta Riley added the

labels 2023-04-14 14:02:29 +02:00

Julieta Riley commented

2023-04-14 14:08:53 +02:00

I'm not sure if this is a bug too, but when you tweak one clip, you can also see and edit the keyframes of all other clips on the same track.

I'm not sure if this is a bug too, but when you tweak one clip, you can also see and edit the keyframes of all other clips on the same track. ![image](/attachments/40a8af34-8c63-467e-8a59-713f455b6dcf)

image.png

128 KiB

Germano Cavalcante commented

2023-04-17 21:32:54 +02:00

It looks like a bug, but it could also be by design.
I feel like we need input from the Animation team to tell us if adding a keyframe outside the Playback range of an Action should be allowed.

It looks like a bug, but it could also be by design. I feel like we need input from the Animation team to tell us if adding a keyframe outside the Playback range of an `Action` should be allowed.

Germano Cavalcante added

Module

Animation & Rigging

Status

Needs Info from Developers

and removed

Status

Needs Triage

labels 2023-04-17 21:33:10 +02:00

Brad Clark commented

2023-04-17 21:51:24 +02:00

Looking at it

Brad Clark was assigned by Sybren A. Stüvel

2023-04-18 12:18:00 +02:00

Brad Clark commented

2023-04-20 23:04:14 +02:00

This is a result of sync length being off on the strip I think and is at least a current limitation but I need to track down if it always was or if it got introduced at one point.

Nathan Vegdahl commented

2023-05-05 12:13:17 +02:00

Not sure about past behavior, but it feels to me like something is wrong here. Because even if this is an intentional limitation, it's poorly implemented. For example, you can trivially work around it by just temporarily turning Sync Length on while in tweak mode and turning it off again before you exit:

Enter tweak mode.
Turn Sync Length on.
Insert the key(s) you want.
Turn Sync Length back off again.
Exit tweak mode.

So it seems like we should either:

Get rid of the limitation (presumably just produce the same results as the work-around above).
Properly enforce this limitation. Perhaps by disallowing the state of Sync Length to be changed while in tweak mode. And maybe show a warning with an explanation of what's going on when the user attempts it, rather than just silently failing (it already produces a warning in the info console, but nothing otherwise user-visible).

Personally, I favor option 1. If it is intentional, I struggle to see the purpose. But maybe I'm missing something.

Not sure about past behavior, but it feels to me like *something* is wrong here. Because even if this is an intentional limitation, it's poorly implemented. For example, you can trivially work around it by just temporarily turning `Sync Length` on while in tweak mode and turning it off again before you exit: 1. Enter tweak mode. 2. Turn `Sync Length` on. 3. Insert the key(s) you want. 4. Turn `Sync Length` back off again. 5. Exit tweak mode. So it seems like we should either: 1. Get rid of the limitation (presumably just produce the same results as the work-around above). 2. Properly enforce this limitation. Perhaps by disallowing the state of `Sync Length` to be changed while in tweak mode. And maybe show a warning with an explanation of what's going on when the user attempts it, rather than just silently failing (it already produces a warning in the info console, but nothing otherwise user-visible). Personally, I favor option 1. If it is intentional, I struggle to see the purpose. But maybe I'm missing something.

Brad Clark commented

2023-05-05 15:36:34 +02:00

At one point you could keyframe outside the bounds of the NLA strip and the sync setting didn't matter. I can't remember when that changed but that is an artificial limitation and forces the user to workaround or jump in and out of modes or simply and most often, the user ends up thinking something is broken.

Sync setting should have no impact on adding keys to the action.

At one point you could keyframe outside the bounds of the NLA strip and the sync setting didn't matter. I can't remember when that changed but that is an artificial limitation and forces the user to workaround or jump in and out of modes or simply and most often, the user ends up thinking something is broken. Sync setting should have no impact on adding keys to the action.

👍 1

Nathan Vegdahl self-assigned this 2023-06-05 10:54:21 +02:00

Julieta Riley commented

2023-07-04 19:54:49 +02:00

Yes you often need sync length disabled (virtually always) to avoid clips automatically shrinking back down when they've been purposefully extended beyond the last/first keyframe of that clip.

A solution would be that you can add keyframes anywhere, and then it's up to the user to ensure the clip is long enough for the new keyframe to have an influence on the result.

Or perhaps an 'extend only' option could be available beside the sync clip length option so that it could always be left on without fear of the clip contracting back down to the keyframe bounds of that clip?

Yes you often need sync length disabled (virtually always) to avoid clips automatically shrinking back down when they've been purposefully extended beyond the last/first keyframe of that clip. A solution would be that you can add keyframes anywhere, and then it's up to the user to ensure the clip is long enough for the new keyframe to have an influence on the result. Or perhaps an 'extend only' option could be available beside the sync clip length option so that it could always be left on without fear of the clip contracting back down to the keyframe bounds of that clip?

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splitting an nla track prevents adding new keyframes outside of the clips bounds in tweak mode #106946