AccentGrave / Tilde not accessible on certain keyboards in Windows [makes Walk/Fly difficult to access] #66607

System Information
Operating system: Windows-7-6.1.7601-SP1 64 Bits
Graphics card: GeForce GTX 970/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 416.34

Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.80 (sub 74), branch: master, commit date: 2019-07-08 23:33, hash: ac8c795429
Worked: (optional)

Short description of error
flymode not accessible throug german keyboard
SHIFT+` is not working on german keyboards

would be good to have SHIFT+F as a standard again, so germans can use the flymode :)
SHIFT+` is a bad kombo...

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Added subscriber: @blenderhilfe

#74672 was marked as duplicate of this issue

#68791 was marked as duplicate of this issue

#69135 was marked as duplicate of this issue

#71701 was marked as duplicate of this issue

Added subscribers: @JacquesLucke, @sebastian_k, @dfelinto

Germans, unite: @JacquesLucke @sebastian_k could you confirm this?
In theory the shortcut is hardcoded to the key position under the Esc in the top left corner of the keyboard. But perhaps it is not working in some systems.

Added subscriber: @rjg

Can confirm. It doesn't work on a German keyboard , because pressing shift is required to get the ` in the first place.

also
in the menu > view > navigate > fly & walk
is no keykombo shown behind the commands

in Search (F3) "fly" there are naming problems
"walk/fly" makes no sense, because that are 2 different operators
they both need an entry in search

btw
in german keyboards the key ` is under F10
not under ESC

could we pls have SHIFT+F back
that kombo works on all languages
is easy to remind
and at a good place to reach

Added subscriber: @ZedDB

@rjg it works for me with a swedish layout keyboard. I also have to press shift to get the ``` character.
Do you guys have nodeadkeys on of off?

Added subscriber: @a.monti

In theory the shortcut is hardcoded to the key position under the Esc in the top left corner of the keyboard.

As far as I have understood this is only working on Linux for now, for sure it does not on Windows.

In #66607#717606, @blenderhilfe wrote:
also
in the menu > view > navigate > fly & walk
is no keykombo shown behind the commands

That's because they don't have one. The operator assigned to shift+` is a third one, that invokes fly or walk depending on what is chosen in the user preferences.

@ZedDB I was testing on Windows and it's a dead key by default.

Added subscriber: @lichtwerk

Works for me:

with layout German (no dead keys) it resolves to shift to get the ``` character [under "Druck"/"S-Abf" on my keyboard]
with layout German it resolves to shift to get the ° character [under "Esc" on my keyboard]

update
SHIFT+Ö (Umlaut O) happens to work... but thats not intentional right?

pls make SHIFT+F again as default

Weird, can confirm SHIFT+ö enables it for me as well.

Added subscriber: @Aranuvir

Switching to non dead keys solves the problem on Linux. Now I can activate the fly mode with the key where the -key would be on US keyboards (= °^-key), as well as with the -key on German keyboards (for comparison see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout, "T1" is the most common). Is that the intended behavior? And, btw, I'd consider the "solution" a workaround, rather than a bug fix. The default Ubuntu installation uses a dead key layout, so many users will have to switch there keyboard layout, potentially causing trouble with other software.

Added subscriber: @tintwotin

This comment was removed by @tintwotin

same problem with > 3D View > AccentGrave > View axis pie menu

dont work for same reason (in german keyboards on windows)

Added subscriber: @TimoMuller

Added subscriber: @CMC

Added subscriber: @ideasman42

Note that this works on Linux, Windows needs to have support added for the physical key to be mapped as is done in Linux, added f3427cbc98.

Added subscribers: @Mike-102, @AnthonyEdlin

@ideasman42: havent checked code, but this seems to be an issue with MacOS as well?

Added subscribers: @nile, @AbidMaqbool

Added subscriber: @Rigoletto

Added subscribers: @crowe, @mano-wii, @schuelermine

Keymap

Aranuvir's assertion that the keymap seems to be using an ANSI layout no matter the keyboard you're using seems spot on. I've seen the same behavior in a different keyboard layout (ABNT2).

Rolling back standard shortcuts to avoid affected keys are no solution because any key positioned differently than in a ANSI keyboard will behave incorrectly. This means all users outside the US are subject to serious accessibility issues which can't be foreseen since you'd have to keep on top of every existing keyboard layout so far.

Here is a rundown of Keymap's behavior with my keyboard:

Note the keys placement in the ANSI layout compared with my layout.

Incomplete character map

I also have a related but not same issue which described in my bug report (that was closed and merged here, so sorry if I'm cluttering, nowhere left to report): Blender's ABNT2 character map (Charset? Dunno.) also isn't correct. The map affects the UI part of the program like input fields, textboxes, the Text Editor.

Blender doesn't know the / ? and Numpad . keys exist, outputting nothing when pressing them. If you look at my attachment you'll see those are extra keys in the ABNT2 keyboard (instead of existing keys with altered charset). They're likely considered entirely new physical keys on the software side, hence the lack of response.

** ^ #### ¨fail (needs testing by someone with US keyboard)**Can't tell whether it's related to the non-ANSI keyboard layout but the^ #### ¨ characters don't behave correctly in the UI. At first I thought it was just about the key following it, but it's about timing too. Plain and letter-combined ^ / #### / ¨aren't written unless you wait ~2s to follow them with another key. This is not standard behavior, you should be able to output them regardless of you typing speed. It also eats repeated^ / #### / ¨, but at least outputs the correct character afterwards:Expected behavior
^ + (space <1s) → ^
^ + (space >2s) → ^
^ + ^ (any wait) → ^^
^ x3 + ~ x3 → ^^^~~~
^ + a (<1s) → â
^ + a (>2s) → â

Blender behavior
^ + (space <1s) → ~
^ + (space >2s) → ^
^ + ^ (any wait) → ^
^ x3 + ~ x3 → ^^~
^ + a (<1s) → ã
^ + a (>2s) → â

Looks like it's about SHIFT-dependent accents, but I'm not sure. It's very weird, I don't recall seeing this bug in any software before.

- **Keymap** Aranuvir's assertion that the keymap seems to be using an ANSI layout no matter the keyboard you're using seems spot on. I've seen the same behavior in a different keyboard layout (ABNT2). Rolling back standard shortcuts to avoid affected keys are no solution because any key positioned differently than in a ANSI keyboard will behave incorrectly. This means all users outside the US are subject to serious accessibility issues which *can't be foreseen* since you'd have to keep on top of every existing keyboard layout so far. Here is a rundown of Keymap's behavior with my keyboard: ![_blender_2-82__keyboard-layout_BUGREPORT__v2.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8403590/_blender_2-82__keyboard-layout_BUGREPORT__v2.png) Note the keys placement in the ANSI layout compared with my layout. - **Incomplete character map** I also have a related but not same issue which described in my bug report (that was closed and merged here, so sorry if I'm cluttering, nowhere left to report): Blender's ABNT2 character map (Charset? Dunno.) also isn't correct. The map affects the UI part of the program like input fields, textboxes, the Text Editor. Blender doesn't know the `/ ?` and `Numpad .` keys exist, outputting nothing when pressing them. If you look at my attachment you'll see those are extra keys in the ABNT2 keyboard (instead of existing keys with altered charset). They're likely considered entirely new physical keys on the software side, hence the lack of response. - ** `^` ##`## `¨` fail (needs testing by someone with US keyboard)**Can't tell whether it's related to the non-ANSI keyboard layout but the `^` ##`## `¨` characters don't behave correctly in the UI. At first I thought it was just about the key following it, but it's about timing too. Plain and letter-combined `^` / ##`## / `¨` aren't written unless you wait ~2s to follow them with another key. This is not standard behavior, you should be able to output them regardless of you typing speed. It also eats repeated `^` / ##`## / `¨`, but at least outputs the correct character afterwards:**Expected behavior** `^` + `(space <1s)` → `^` `^` + `(space >2s)` → `^` `^` + `^ (any wait)` → `^^` `^` x3 + `~` x3 → `^^^~~~` `^` + `a (<1s)` → `â` `^` + `a (>2s)` → `â` **Blender behavior** `^` + `(space <1s)` → `~` `^` + `(space >2s)` → `^` `^` + `^ (any wait)` → `^` `^` x3 + `~` x3 → `^^~` `^` + `a (<1s)` → `ã` `^` + `a (>2s)` → `â` Looks like it's about `SHIFT`-dependent accents, but I'm not sure. It's very weird, I don't recall seeing this bug in any software before.

Changed status from 'Confirmed' to: 'Resolved'

Resolved by committing 1b1c683f74

Please check out tomorrow's build to make sure the problem has actually been fixed.
https://builder.blender.org/download/

Added subscriber: @plgarcia

Dear all,
The key under the escape key still does not work on French Keyboard. It is a "2" (square) key.
When if I switch the keyboard mapping to English (that does not correspond to the keyboard) the pie menu appears and works.
The problem does not come from the electronics. Why not defining a function that could be mapped.

More information.
I am using the 2.9.1 version on Blender on a French Windows 7 64 bits.
If I program one key of the tablet to provide the ² what is the character associated with the key, then the pie menu appears and works. Obviously, Blender associates this character with the right key.
Then the problem comes that blender probably does not get the right character from the keyboard.
What kind of login could I set to get information on what happens and provide this information to the developers?

Added subscriber: @hisfrenchness-blender

Hello. Sorry ... I don't understand how this has been solved for French Layouts / Keyboards (AZERTY Fr).

I had to re-map the " ` " to " ² " to get it work (on Blender 3.4.1).

Also, I don't know if the behavior is normal or not ... but the keys pressed doesn't match the keys in the view :

If i press [ ² ] key ... It appears like this : [ " ]

Where the layout is this :

@hisfrenchness-blender best report a new bug that includes exact details of what doesn't work, referencing this report.

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AccentGrave / Tilde not accessible on certain keyboards in Windows [makes Walk/Fly difficult to access] #66607