AccentGrave / Tilde not accessible on certain keyboards in Windows [makes Walk/Fly difficult to access] #66607

New Issue

Tobias Lijsen · 2019-07-09T15:03:42+02:00

Tobias Lijsen commented

2019-07-09 15:03:42 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-7-6.1.7601-SP1 64 Bits
Graphics card: GeForce GTX 970/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 416.34

Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.80 (sub 74), branch: master, commit date: 2019-07-08 23:33, hash: ac8c795429
Worked: (optional)

Short description of error
flymode not accessible throug german keyboard
SHIFT+` is not working on german keyboards

would be good to have SHIFT+F as a standard again, so germans can use the flymode :)
SHIFT+` is a bad kombo...

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-7-6.1.7601-SP1 64 Bits Graphics card: GeForce GTX 970/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 416.34 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 2.80 (sub 74), branch: master, commit date: 2019-07-08 23:33, hash: `ac8c795429` Worked: (optional) **Short description of error** flymode not accessible throug german keyboard SHIFT+` is not working on german keyboards would be good to have SHIFT+F as a standard again, so germans can use the flymode :) SHIFT+` is a bad kombo... **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error**

Tobias Lijsen commented

2019-07-09 15:03:42 +02:00

Added subscriber: @blenderhilfe

blender-admin commented

2019-07-09 15:03:42 +02:00

#74672 was marked as duplicate of this issue

blender-admin commented

2019-07-09 15:03:42 +02:00

#68791 was marked as duplicate of this issue

blender-admin commented

2019-07-09 15:03:42 +02:00

#69135 was marked as duplicate of this issue

blender-admin commented

2019-07-09 15:03:42 +02:00

#71701 was marked as duplicate of this issue

Dalai Felinto commented

2019-07-09 21:18:01 +02:00

Added subscribers: @JacquesLucke, @sebastian_k, @dfelinto

Campbell Barton was assigned by Dalai Felinto

2019-07-09 21:18:01 +02:00

Dalai Felinto commented

2019-07-09 21:18:01 +02:00

Germans, unite: @JacquesLucke @sebastian_k could you confirm this?
In theory the shortcut is hardcoded to the key position under the Esc in the top left corner of the keyboard. But perhaps it is not working in some systems.

Germans, unite: @JacquesLucke @sebastian_k could you confirm this? In theory the shortcut is hardcoded to the key position under the Esc in the top left corner of the keyboard. But perhaps it is not working in some systems.

Robert Guetzkow commented

2019-07-09 21:47:19 +02:00

Added subscriber: @rjg

Robert Guetzkow commented

2019-07-09 21:47:19 +02:00

Can confirm. It doesn't work on a German keyboard , because pressing shift is required to get the ` in the first place.

Can confirm. It doesn't work on a [German keyboard ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/KB_Germany.svg), because pressing shift is required to get the ` in the first place.

Tobias Lijsen commented

2019-07-10 18:34:52 +02:00

also
in the menu > view > navigate > fly & walk
is no keykombo shown behind the commands

in Search (F3) "fly" there are naming problems
"walk/fly" makes no sense, because that are 2 different operators
they both need an entry in search

also in the menu > view > navigate > fly & walk is no keykombo shown behind the commands in Search (F3) "fly" there are naming problems "walk/fly" makes no sense, because that are 2 different operators they both need an entry in search

Tobias Lijsen commented

2019-07-10 18:36:10 +02:00

btw
in german keyboards the key ` is under F10
not under ESC

could we pls have SHIFT+F back
that kombo works on all languages
is easy to remind
and at a good place to reach

btw in german keyboards the key ` is under F10 not under ESC could we pls have SHIFT+F back that kombo works on all languages is easy to remind and at a good place to reach

Sebastian Parborg commented

2019-07-10 18:45:24 +02:00

Added subscriber: @ZedDB

Sebastian Parborg commented

2019-07-10 18:45:25 +02:00

@rjg it works for me with a swedish layout keyboard. I also have to press shift to get the ``` character.
Do you guys have nodeadkeys on of off?

@rjg it works for me with a swedish layout keyboard. I also have to press shift to get the ``` character. Do you guys have `nodeadkeys` on of off?

Alessio Monti di Sopra commented

2019-07-10 19:03:46 +02:00

Added subscriber: @a.monti

Alessio Monti di Sopra commented

2019-07-10 19:03:47 +02:00

In theory the shortcut is hardcoded to the key position under the Esc in the top left corner of the keyboard.

As far as I have understood this is only working on Linux for now, for sure it does not on Windows.

In #66607#717606, @blenderhilfe wrote:
also
in the menu > view > navigate > fly & walk
is no keykombo shown behind the commands

That's because they don't have one. The operator assigned to shift+` is a third one, that invokes fly or walk depending on what is chosen in the user preferences.

> In theory the shortcut is hardcoded to the key position under the Esc in the top left corner of the keyboard. As far as I have understood this is only working on Linux for now, for sure it does not on Windows. > In #66607#717606, @blenderhilfe wrote: > also > in the menu > view > navigate > fly & walk > is no keykombo shown behind the commands That's because they don't have one. The operator assigned to shift+` is a third one, that invokes fly or walk depending on what is chosen in the user preferences.

Robert Guetzkow commented

2019-07-10 19:12:14 +02:00

@ZedDB I was testing on Windows and it's a dead key by default.

Philipp Oeser commented

2019-07-10 19:59:22 +02:00

Added subscriber: @lichtwerk

Philipp Oeser commented

2019-07-10 19:59:22 +02:00

Works for me:

with layout German (no dead keys) it resolves to shift to get the ``` character [under "Druck"/"S-Abf" on my keyboard]
with layout German it resolves to shift to get the ° character [under "Esc" on my keyboard]

Works for me: - with layout `German (no dead keys)` it resolves to shift to get the ``` character [under "Druck"/"S-Abf" on my keyboard] - with layout `German` it resolves to shift to get the `°` character [under "Esc" on my keyboard]

Tobias Lijsen commented

2019-07-10 21:12:38 +02:00

update
SHIFT+Ö (Umlaut O) happens to work... but thats not intentional right?

pls make SHIFT+F again as default

update SHIFT+Ö (Umlaut O) happens to work... but thats not intentional right? **pls make SHIFT+F again as default**

Robert Guetzkow commented

2019-07-10 22:03:06 +02:00

Weird, can confirm SHIFT+ö enables it for me as well.

Aranuvir commented

2019-07-11 01:00:13 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Aranuvir

Aranuvir commented

2019-07-11 01:00:13 +02:00

Switching to non dead keys solves the problem on Linux. Now I can activate the fly mode with the key where the -key would be on US keyboards (= °^-key), as well as with the -key on German keyboards (for comparison see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout, "T1" is the most common). Is that the intended behavior? And, btw, I'd consider the "solution" a workaround, rather than a bug fix. The default Ubuntu installation uses a dead key layout, so many users will have to switch there keyboard layout, potentially causing trouble with other software.

Switching to non dead keys solves the problem on Linux. Now I can activate the fly mode with the key where the `-key would be on US keyboards (= °^-key), as well as with the `-key on German keyboards (for comparison see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout, "T1" is the most common). Is that the intended behavior? And, btw, I'd consider the "solution" a workaround, rather than a bug fix. The default Ubuntu installation uses a dead key layout, so many users will have to switch there keyboard layout, potentially causing trouble with other software.

tintwotin commented

2019-07-11 07:55:27 +02:00

Added subscriber: @tintwotin

tintwotin commented

2019-07-11 07:55:28 +02:00

This comment was removed by @tintwotin

*This comment was removed by @tintwotin*

Tobias Lijsen commented

2019-07-11 12:22:04 +02:00

same problem with > 3D View > AccentGrave > View axis pie menu

dont work for same reason (in german keyboards on windows)

**same problem with > 3D View > AccentGrave > View axis pie menu** dont work for same reason (in german keyboards on windows)

Timo Müller commented

2019-07-11 17:17:57 +02:00

Added subscriber: @TimoMuller

Christina McKay commented

2019-07-13 08:49:34 +02:00

Added subscriber: @CMC

Campbell Barton changed title from ~~flymode not accessible on german keyboard~~ to AccentGrave not accessible on German keyboard in Windows

2019-09-20 05:15:02 +02:00

Campbell Barton removed their assignment 2019-09-20 05:15:52 +02:00

Campbell Barton commented

2019-09-20 05:15:52 +02:00

Added subscriber: @ideasman42

Campbell Barton commented

2019-09-20 05:23:31 +02:00

Note that this works on Linux, Windows needs to have support added for the physical key to be mapped as is done in Linux, added f3427cbc98.

Note that this works on Linux, Windows needs to have support added for the physical key to be mapped as is done in Linux, added f3427cbc98.

Philipp Oeser changed title from ~~AccentGrave not accessible on German keyboard in Windows~~ to AccentGrave / Tilde not accessible on certain keyboards in Windows [makes Walk/Fly difficult to access]

2019-11-26 12:22:11 +01:00

Philipp Oeser commented

2019-11-26 12:23:38 +01:00

Added subscribers: @Mike-102, @AnthonyEdlin

Philipp Oeser commented

2019-11-26 12:24:36 +01:00

@ideasman42: havent checked code, but this seems to be an issue with MacOS as well?

Philipp Oeser commented

2019-11-26 12:26:18 +01:00

Added subscribers: @nile, @AbidMaqbool

Philipp Oeser commented

2019-11-26 12:27:12 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Rigoletto

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-03-12 17:15:06 +01:00

Added subscribers: @crowe, @mano-wii, @schuelermine

Crowe commented

2020-03-13 15:23:38 +01:00

Keymap

Aranuvir's assertion that the keymap seems to be using an ANSI layout no matter the keyboard you're using seems spot on. I've seen the same behavior in a different keyboard layout (ABNT2).

Rolling back standard shortcuts to avoid affected keys are no solution because any key positioned differently than in a ANSI keyboard will behave incorrectly. This means all users outside the US are subject to serious accessibility issues which can't be foreseen since you'd have to keep on top of every existing keyboard layout so far.

Here is a rundown of Keymap's behavior with my keyboard:

Note the keys placement in the ANSI layout compared with my layout.

Incomplete character map

I also have a related but not same issue which described in my bug report (that was closed and merged here, so sorry if I'm cluttering, nowhere left to report): Blender's ABNT2 character map (Charset? Dunno.) also isn't correct. The map affects the UI part of the program like input fields, textboxes, the Text Editor.

Blender doesn't know the / ? and Numpad . keys exist, outputting nothing when pressing them. If you look at my attachment you'll see those are extra keys in the ABNT2 keyboard (instead of existing keys with altered charset). They're likely considered entirely new physical keys on the software side, hence the lack of response.

** ^ #### ¨fail (needs testing by someone with US keyboard)**Can't tell whether it's related to the non-ANSI keyboard layout but the^ #### ¨ characters don't behave correctly in the UI. At first I thought it was just about the key following it, but it's about timing too. Plain and letter-combined ^ / #### / ¨aren't written unless you wait ~2s to follow them with another key. This is not standard behavior, you should be able to output them regardless of you typing speed. It also eats repeated^ / #### / ¨, but at least outputs the correct character afterwards:Expected behavior
^ + (space <1s) → ^
^ + (space >2s) → ^
^ + ^ (any wait) → ^^
^ x3 + ~ x3 → ^^^~~~
^ + a (<1s) → â
^ + a (>2s) → â

Blender behavior
^ + (space <1s) → ~
^ + (space >2s) → ^
^ + ^ (any wait) → ^
^ x3 + ~ x3 → ^^~
^ + a (<1s) → ã
^ + a (>2s) → â

Looks like it's about SHIFT-dependent accents, but I'm not sure. It's very weird, I don't recall seeing this bug in any software before.

- **Keymap** Aranuvir's assertion that the keymap seems to be using an ANSI layout no matter the keyboard you're using seems spot on. I've seen the same behavior in a different keyboard layout (ABNT2). Rolling back standard shortcuts to avoid affected keys are no solution because any key positioned differently than in a ANSI keyboard will behave incorrectly. This means all users outside the US are subject to serious accessibility issues which *can't be foreseen* since you'd have to keep on top of every existing keyboard layout so far. Here is a rundown of Keymap's behavior with my keyboard: ![_blender_2-82__keyboard-layout_BUGREPORT__v2.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8403590/_blender_2-82__keyboard-layout_BUGREPORT__v2.png) Note the keys placement in the ANSI layout compared with my layout. - **Incomplete character map** I also have a related but not same issue which described in my bug report (that was closed and merged here, so sorry if I'm cluttering, nowhere left to report): Blender's ABNT2 character map (Charset? Dunno.) also isn't correct. The map affects the UI part of the program like input fields, textboxes, the Text Editor. Blender doesn't know the `/ ?` and `Numpad .` keys exist, outputting nothing when pressing them. If you look at my attachment you'll see those are extra keys in the ABNT2 keyboard (instead of existing keys with altered charset). They're likely considered entirely new physical keys on the software side, hence the lack of response. - ** `^` ##`## `¨` fail (needs testing by someone with US keyboard)**Can't tell whether it's related to the non-ANSI keyboard layout but the `^` ##`## `¨` characters don't behave correctly in the UI. At first I thought it was just about the key following it, but it's about timing too. Plain and letter-combined `^` / ##`## / `¨` aren't written unless you wait ~2s to follow them with another key. This is not standard behavior, you should be able to output them regardless of you typing speed. It also eats repeated `^` / ##`## / `¨`, but at least outputs the correct character afterwards:**Expected behavior** `^` + `(space <1s)` → `^` `^` + `(space >2s)` → `^` `^` + `^ (any wait)` → `^^` `^` x3 + `~` x3 → `^^^~~~` `^` + `a (<1s)` → `â` `^` + `a (>2s)` → `â` **Blender behavior** `^` + `(space <1s)` → `~` `^` + `(space >2s)` → `^` `^` + `^ (any wait)` → `^` `^` x3 + `~` x3 → `^^~` `^` + `a (<1s)` → `ã` `^` + `a (>2s)` → `â` Looks like it's about `SHIFT`-dependent accents, but I'm not sure. It's very weird, I don't recall seeing this bug in any software before.

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-03-26 13:42:31 +01:00

Changed status from 'Confirmed' to: 'Resolved'

Germano Cavalcante closed this issue

2020-03-26 13:42:31 +01:00

Germano Cavalcante self-assigned this 2020-03-26 13:42:31 +01:00

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-03-26 13:42:31 +01:00

Resolved by committing 1b1c683f74

Please check out tomorrow's build to make sure the problem has actually been fixed.
https://builder.blender.org/download/

Resolved by committing 1b1c683f74 Please check out tomorrow's build to make sure the problem has actually been fixed. https://builder.blender.org/download/

Pascal Garcia commented

2020-11-12 22:23:33 +01:00

Added subscriber: @plgarcia

Pascal Garcia commented

2020-11-12 22:23:33 +01:00

Dear all,
The key under the escape key still does not work on French Keyboard. It is a "2" (square) key.
When if I switch the keyboard mapping to English (that does not correspond to the keyboard) the pie menu appears and works.
The problem does not come from the electronics. Why not defining a function that could be mapped.

Dear all, The key under the escape key still does not work on French Keyboard. It is a "2" (square) key. When if I switch the keyboard mapping to English (that does not correspond to the keyboard) the pie menu appears and works. The problem does not come from the electronics. Why not defining a function that could be mapped.

Pascal Garcia commented

2020-11-13 10:42:35 +01:00

More information.
I am using the 2.9.1 version on Blender on a French Windows 7 64 bits.
If I program one key of the tablet to provide the ² what is the character associated with the key, then the pie menu appears and works. Obviously, Blender associates this character with the right key.
Then the problem comes that blender probably does not get the right character from the keyboard.
What kind of login could I set to get information on what happens and provide this information to the developers?

More information. I am using the 2.9.1 version on Blender on a French Windows 7 64 bits. If I program one key of the tablet to provide the ² what is the character associated with the key, then the pie menu appears and works. Obviously, Blender associates this character with the right key. Then the problem comes that blender probably does not get the right character from the keyboard. What kind of login could I set to get information on what happens and provide this information to the developers?

His.Fr commented

2023-01-22 11:23:19 +01:00

Added subscriber: @hisfrenchness-blender

His.Fr commented

2023-01-22 11:23:19 +01:00

Hello. Sorry ... I don't understand how this has been solved for French Layouts / Keyboards (AZERTY Fr).

I had to re-map the " ` " to " ² " to get it work (on Blender 3.4.1).

Also, I don't know if the behavior is normal or not ... but the keys pressed doesn't match the keys in the view :

If i press [ ² ] key ... It appears like this : [ " ]

Where the layout is this :

Hello. Sorry ... I don't understand how this has been solved for French Layouts / Keyboards (AZERTY Fr). I had to re-map the " ` " to " ² " to get it work (on Blender 3.4.1). Also, I don't know if the behavior is normal or not ... but the keys pressed doesn't match the keys in the view : If i press [ ² ] key ... It appears like this : [ " ] ![blender-3.4.1-Tilde.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14183087/blender-3.4.1-Tilde.png) Where the layout is this : ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14183388/image.png)

Campbell Barton commented

2023-01-23 05:12:02 +01:00

@hisfrenchness-blender best report a new bug that includes exact details of what doesn't work, referencing this report.

Kristoffer LR commented

2023-11-10 05:50:00 +01:00

I got a workaround with the app BetterTouchTool (if you happen to use it).

It allows me, on "key down", to change my keyboard layout to US, send the wanted key then revert all of it on "key up".

Overkill but it allows me to use the pie menu flawlessly.

For more details: https://community.folivora.ai/t/auto-adapt-to-current-keyboard-layout-not-working/21499/11?u=klicher

I got a workaround with the app BetterTouchTool (if you happen to use it). It allows me, on "key down", to change my keyboard layout to US, send the wanted key then revert all of it on "key up". Overkill but it allows me to use the pie menu flawlessly. For more details: [https://community.folivora.ai/t/auto-adapt-to-current-keyboard-layout-not-working/21499/11?u=klicher](https://community.folivora.ai/t/auto-adapt-to-current-keyboard-layout-not-working/21499/11?u=klicher)

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AccentGrave / Tilde not accessible on certain keyboards in Windows [makes Walk/Fly difficult to access] #66607