Vertex Paint ➔ Paint menu ➔ Smooth Vertex Colors could be improved #70038

New Issue

Metin Seven · 2019-09-18T20:00:04+02:00

Metin Seven commented

2019-09-18 20:00:04 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti

Blender Version
Tested: Blender 2.81 Alpha, September 18, 14:29:45 - b962aca800
Worked: never

Short description of error
Vertex Paint ➔ Paint menu ➔ Smooth Vertex Colors tool does not smooth other than direct loop neighbors.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Divide the default cube a few times (apply if subdivision is done with modifier).
Enter Vertex Paint mode.
Paint an area with black.
Apply Paint menu ➔ Smooth Vertex Colors.
The vertex paint is not smoothed other than direct loop neighbors.

Here is some clarification as the descriptions above are not very clear (I work with vertex colors very regularly and still came out confused by reading this post).

The Smooth Vertex Colors command will have visible results if it is run on vertex colors that have been applied per-face (by first selecting the desired faces in Edit mode, and then filling them with colors in Vertex color mode with the face filter enabled). Think of these as "harsh" vertex colors. When such vcols exist, then the smooth operation will indeed smooth out the vcol data so that the harsh separation between painted faces will be smoothed out, blending it with the surrounding faces.
But if the command is run on vcol data that has been painted on using the paint brush or on vcol generated by the "dirty vertex colors" command then nothing will happen as the vcols will already be point-based.

Therefore there is no bug here, just some very confusing naming of the command and a lack of clarity when the command is run but nothing happens. For any user working with painted-on vertex colors, it will indeed seem like nothing is happening at all since one would expect some sort of global smoothing to be applied.

Part of the confusion is also coming from the fact that this command sits just below "Dirty Vertex Colors" in the menu, which generates smooth, per-vertex vcol data. Meaning that for a user exploring vcol mode by trying one feature after the next, "smooth vertex colors" will almost always feel like it is doing nothing at all (unless the user first applied some vcol using face masking, which is extremely unlikely).

If anything the tooltip and/or the menu entry could be changed for clarity :

The menu item name could be renamed from "Smooth vertex colors" to "Smooth harsh per-face vertex colors"
The tooltip could be changed from "Smooth colors across vertices" to "Smooth colors across vertices. Only operates on harsh, per-face vertex colors".

And then of course it would be great to have a new feature altogether to blur vcols globally, similarly to what the blur brush does.

**System Information** Operating system: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti **Blender Version** Tested: Blender 2.81 Alpha, September 18, 14:29:45 - b962aca8003d Worked: never **Short description of error** Vertex Paint ➔ Paint menu ➔ Smooth Vertex Colors tool does not smooth other than direct loop neighbors. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** 1. Divide the default cube a few times (apply if subdivision is done with modifier). 2. Enter Vertex Paint mode. 3. Paint an area with black. 4. Apply Paint menu ➔ Smooth Vertex Colors. 5. The vertex paint is not smoothed other than direct loop neighbors. Here is some clarification as the descriptions above are not very clear (I work with vertex colors very regularly and still came out confused by reading this post). - The Smooth Vertex Colors command will have visible results *if* it is run on vertex colors that have been applied per-face (by first selecting the desired faces in Edit mode, and then filling them with colors in Vertex color mode with the face filter enabled). Think of these as "harsh" vertex colors. When such vcols exist, then the smooth operation will indeed smooth out the vcol data so that the harsh separation between painted faces will be smoothed out, blending it with the surrounding faces. - But if the command is run on vcol data that has been painted on using the paint brush or on vcol generated by the "dirty vertex colors" command then nothing will happen as the vcols will already be point-based. Therefore there is no bug here, just some very confusing naming of the command and a lack of clarity when the command is run but nothing happens. For any user working with painted-on vertex colors, it will indeed seem like nothing is happening at all since one would expect some sort of global smoothing to be applied. Part of the confusion is also coming from the fact that this command sits just below "Dirty Vertex Colors" in the menu, which generates smooth, per-vertex vcol data. Meaning that for a user exploring vcol mode by trying one feature after the next, "smooth vertex colors" will almost always feel like it is doing nothing at all (unless the user first applied some vcol using face masking, which is extremely unlikely). If anything the tooltip and/or the menu entry could be changed for clarity : - The menu item name could be renamed from "Smooth vertex colors" to "Smooth harsh per-face vertex colors" - The tooltip could be changed from "Smooth colors across vertices" to "Smooth colors across vertices. Only operates on harsh, per-face vertex colors". And then of course it would be great to have a new feature altogether to blur vcols globally, similarly to what the blur brush does.

Metin Seven commented

2019-09-18 20:00:04 +02:00

Added subscriber: @MetinSeven-1

blender-admin commented

2019-09-18 20:00:04 +02:00

#92966 was marked as duplicate of this issue

Philipp Oeser commented

2019-09-18 21:27:28 +02:00

Added subscriber: @lichtwerk

Philipp Oeser self-assigned this 2019-09-18 21:27:28 +02:00

Philipp Oeser commented

2019-09-18 21:27:28 +02:00

I did 57e0e520e8 (and reading this report now I see, that I missed an optimization in vertex_color_smooth_looptag which I will fix in a bit), but cant really reproduce this operator behaving differently than 2.80 or 2.79 even.
I might be blind, but check (this should work with no mask, face mask, vert mask...)
#70038.blend

Do you have an example .blend that behaves differently in master vs. 2.80 (or 2.79)?

I did 57e0e520e8 (and reading this report now I see, that I missed an *optimization* in `vertex_color_smooth_looptag` which I will fix in a bit), but cant really reproduce this operator behaving differently than 2.80 or 2.79 even. I might be blind, but check (this should work with no mask, face mask, vert mask...) [#70038.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7756684/T70038.blend) Do you have an example .blend that behaves differently in master vs. 2.80 (or 2.79)?

Metin Seven commented

2019-09-18 22:53:26 +02:00

Hi Philipp,

Thanks for picking this up.

Come to think of it I believe Smooth Vertex Colors worked in a previous version of the 2.81 alpha. I don't remember using it prior to 2.81, because I've been working with 2.80 since last year, and switched to the 2.81 alpha the moment it became available. I just assumed it still works correctly in the 2.8 release version, sorry for the confusion.

You should see an overall blur across all vertex colors, particularly visible along borders of painted areas. Right now nothing happens at all.

Hi Philipp, Thanks for picking this up. Come to think of it I believe Smooth Vertex Colors worked in a previous version of the 2.81 alpha. I don't remember using it prior to 2.81, because I've been working with 2.80 since last year, and switched to the 2.81 alpha the moment it became available. I just assumed it still works correctly in the 2.8 release version, sorry for the confusion. You should see an overall blur across all vertex colors, particularly visible along borders of painted areas. Right now nothing happens at all.

Metin Seven commented

2019-09-18 23:01:04 +02:00

Hmm... I tried your example scene, and in there the Smooth Vertex Colors tool works.

My mesh has a much higher polygon count than your scene's plane example, but no matter how much I zoom in on the mesh and no matter how many times I repeat Smooth Vertex Colors, no change is visible.

I don't mind sending you my scene, but I'd rather not post it publicly. Is there a private way to get the scene to you?

Thanks.

Hmm... I tried your example scene, and in there the Smooth Vertex Colors tool works. My mesh has a much higher polygon count than your scene's plane example, but no matter how much I zoom in on the mesh and no matter how many times I repeat Smooth Vertex Colors, no change is visible. I don't mind sending you my scene, but I'd rather not post it publicly. Is there a private way to get the scene to you? Thanks.

Metin Seven commented

2019-09-18 23:09:09 +02:00

P.S.: I've tried repeating the steps I described in my initial bug report above, and even on a cube that's not subdivided, if you paint one vertex in a color, applying Smooth Vertex Colors does nothing.

Somehow only your example scene's plane does show any result from Smooth Vertex Colors. Did you fill the faces using Face Selection Masking? I'm simply painting on vertices, without masking.

P.S.: I've tried repeating the steps I described in my initial bug report above, and even on a cube that's not subdivided, if you paint one vertex in a color, applying Smooth Vertex Colors does nothing. Somehow only your example scene's plane does show any result from Smooth Vertex Colors. Did you fill the faces using Face Selection Masking? I'm simply painting on vertices, without masking.

TheRedWaxPolice commented

2019-09-19 00:21:24 +02:00

Added subscriber: @TheRedWaxPolice

TheRedWaxPolice commented

2019-09-19 00:21:24 +02:00

It seems like it only works if you paint using the paint mask..

Metin Seven commented

2019-09-19 07:13:27 +02:00

That seems to be the case indeed. If the only purpose of Smooth Vertex Colors is to smooth absolute, mask-filled faces to their directly surrounding vertices, then the function works. But the tool name suggests it will smooth / blur all vertex paint, which would be much more useful, eliminating the need to manually blur everything.

msalv commented

2019-09-19 09:33:43 +02:00

Added subscriber: @moisessalvador

msalv commented

2019-09-19 09:33:43 +02:00

My understanding is the same. It's used to blur face corner colors into all the adjacent corners, but it doesn't actually blur like in Weight paint or with the blur brush.

My suggestion: Rename this one to Smooth corners, and bring Smooth from Weight paint into Vertex paint.

My understanding is the same. It's used to blur face corner colors into all the adjacent corners, but it doesn't actually blur like in Weight paint or with the blur brush. My suggestion: Rename this one to Smooth corners, and bring Smooth from Weight paint into Vertex paint.

Metin Seven commented

2019-09-19 09:40:47 +02:00

I agree with @moisessalvador . Renaming the tool to something like 'Smooth edges' would avoid confusion.

A blur all vertex colors function would definitely be very useful. You could also use the algorithm that's used for smoothing a Sculpt Mode mask in 2.81. Preferably the tool should options such as blur strength and iterations.

Thanks.

I agree with @moisessalvador . Renaming the tool to something like 'Smooth edges' would avoid confusion. A blur all vertex colors function would definitely be very useful. You could also use the algorithm that's used for smoothing a Sculpt Mode mask in 2.81. Preferably the tool should options such as blur strength and iterations. Thanks.

Metin Seven commented

2019-09-19 09:43:03 +02:00

... And to complement a Blur All Vertex Colors function, a Sharpen All Vertex Colors function would also be very welcome.

Thanks.

... And to complement a Blur All Vertex Colors function, a Sharpen All Vertex Colors function would also be very welcome. Thanks.

Philipp Oeser commented

2019-09-19 09:49:23 +02:00

OKi, summing it up we all agree that this tool could be improved (I agree and see the usecases for this).
But we should also note that this was always working like that, so stating something like Worked: 2.80 is just wrong...

I'll keep this as a TODO [should be fairly straightforward to implement], but deny it is a bug :)

OKi, summing it up we all agree that this tool could be improved (I agree and see the usecases for this). But we should also note that this was always working like that, so stating something like `Worked: 2.80` is just wrong... I'll keep this as a TODO [should be fairly straightforward to implement], but deny it is a bug :)

Philipp Oeser changed title from ~~Vertex Paint ➔ Paint menu ➔ Smooth Vertex Colors is broken~~ to Vertex Paint ➔ Paint menu ➔ Smooth Vertex Colors could be improved

2019-09-19 09:51:25 +02:00

Metin Seven commented

2019-09-19 10:01:30 +02:00

Thanks Philipp!

Philipp Oeser removed their assignment 2020-11-17 13:32:22 +01:00

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-11-17 13:32:22 +01:00

Sorry this has been lying around for so long, will step down to not block others looking into this

Pratik Borhade commented

2021-11-10 09:24:18 +01:00

Added subscribers: @kursadk, @PratikPB2123

pior oberson commented

2022-02-10 14:13:08 +01:00

Added subscriber: @pior_o

pior oberson commented

2022-02-10 14:13:08 +01:00

Here is some clarification as the descriptions above are not very clear (I work with vertex colors very regularly and still came out confused by reading this post).

The Smooth Vertex Colors command will have visible results if it is run on vertex colors that have been applied per-face (by first selecting the desired faces in Edit mode, and then filling them with colors in Vertex color mode with the face filter enabled). Think of these as "harsh" vertex colors. When such vcols exist, then the smooth operation will indeed smooth out the vcol data so that the harsh separation between painted faces will be smoothed out, blending it with the surrounding faces.
But if the command is run on vcol data that has been painted on using the paint brush or on vcol generated by the "dirty vertex colors" command then nothing will happen as the vcols will already be point-based.

Therefore there is no bug here, just some very confusing naming of the command and a lack of clarity when the command is run but nothing happens. For any user working with painted-on vertex colors, it will indeed seem like nothing is happening at all since one would expect some sort of global smoothing to be applied.

Part of the confusion is also coming from the fact that this command sits just below "Dirty Vertex Colors" in the menu, which generates smooth, per-vertex vcol data. Meaning that for a user exploring vcol mode by trying one feature after the next, "smooth vertex colors" will almost always feel like it is doing nothing at all (unless the user first applied some vcol using face masking, which is extremely unlikely).

If anything the tooltip and/or the menu entry could be changed for clarity :

The menu item name could be renamed from "Smooth vertex colors" to "Smooth harsh per-face vertex colors"
The tooltip could be changed from "Smooth colors across vertices" to "Smooth colors across vertices. Only operates on harsh, per-face vertex colors".

And then of course it would be great to have a new feature altogether to blur vcols globally, similarly to what the blur brush does.

Here is some clarification as the descriptions above are not very clear (I work with vertex colors very regularly and still came out confused by reading this post). - The Smooth Vertex Colors command will have visible results *if* it is run on vertex colors that have been applied per-face (by first selecting the desired faces in Edit mode, and then filling them with colors in Vertex color mode with the face filter enabled). Think of these as "harsh" vertex colors. When such vcols exist, then the smooth operation will indeed smooth out the vcol data so that the harsh separation between painted faces will be smoothed out, blending it with the surrounding faces. - But if the command is run on vcol data that has been painted on using the paint brush or on vcol generated by the "dirty vertex colors" command then nothing will happen as the vcols will already be point-based. Therefore there is no bug here, just some very confusing naming of the command and a lack of clarity when the command is run but nothing happens. For any user working with painted-on vertex colors, it will indeed seem like nothing is happening at all since one would expect some sort of global smoothing to be applied. Part of the confusion is also coming from the fact that this command sits just below "Dirty Vertex Colors" in the menu, which generates smooth, per-vertex vcol data. Meaning that for a user exploring vcol mode by trying one feature after the next, "smooth vertex colors" will almost always feel like it is doing nothing at all (unless the user first applied some vcol using face masking, which is extremely unlikely). If anything the tooltip and/or the menu entry could be changed for clarity : - The menu item name could be renamed from "Smooth vertex colors" to "Smooth harsh per-face vertex colors" - The tooltip could be changed from "Smooth colors across vertices" to "Smooth colors across vertices. Only operates on harsh, per-face vertex colors". And then of course it would be great to have a new feature altogether to blur vcols globally, similarly to what the blur brush does.

msalv commented

2022-02-10 23:46:15 +01:00

Removed subscriber: @moisessalvador

Julien Kaspar added this to the Sculpt, Paint & Texture project 2023-02-08 10:48:53 +01:00

Philipp Oeser removed the

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Vertex Paint ➔ Paint menu ➔ Smooth Vertex Colors could be improved #70038