Orbit inverted on Mac with Magic Mouse #86025

New Issue

Michiel van der Wal · 2021-02-26T18:08:08+01:00

2021-02-26 18:08:08 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: Darwin-18.7.0-x86_64-i386-64bit 64 Bits
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M OpenGL Engine NVIDIA Corporation 4.1 NVIDIA-12.0.24 355.11.10.50.10.103

Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.92.0, branch: master, commit date: 2021-02-24 16:25, hash: 02948a2cab
Worked: 2.91.0

Short description of error
In 2.91, when i moved my fingers on the touch-sensitive Magic Mouse to orbit, it would move in the opposite direction, which is what i, and most likely most Magic Mouse users are used to; however in 2.92.0, the orbit is the same as using a regular scroll wheel. Very disorienting, and there are no settings to invert this navigation, as far as i am aware.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Default Startup > Orbit with Apple Magic Mouse, touch sensitive surface.

**System Information** Operating system: Darwin-18.7.0-x86_64-i386-64bit 64 Bits Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M OpenGL Engine NVIDIA Corporation 4.1 NVIDIA-12.0.24 355.11.10.50.10.103 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 2.92.0, branch: master, commit date: 2021-02-24 16:25, hash: `02948a2cab` Worked: 2.91.0 **Short description of error** In 2.91, when i moved my fingers on the touch-sensitive Magic Mouse to orbit, it would move in the opposite direction, which is what i, and most likely most Magic Mouse users are used to; however in 2.92.0, the orbit is the same as using a regular scroll wheel. Very disorienting, and there are no settings to invert this navigation, as far as i am aware. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Default Startup > Orbit with Apple Magic Mouse, touch sensitive surface.

Michiel van der Wal commented

2021-02-26 18:08:08 +01:00

Added subscriber: @MichielvanderWal

blender-admin commented

2021-02-26 18:08:08 +01:00

#86668 was marked as duplicate of this issue

blender-admin commented

2021-02-26 18:08:08 +01:00

#86434 was marked as duplicate of this issue

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2021-02-26 21:47:14 +01:00

The current behavior is intentional, it was originally designed that way, see 1dfb6404b7.
Then, after changing the default macOS settings, the intended behavior was broken, and Blender had incorrect default settings, see #71431 #64917.
It was fixed in 055ed335a1.

There is no bug here, I would qualify it as a feature request.

I think there may be a preference for "Invert Orbit", but it should work consistently between the trackpad, mouse, and gizmo.

There is some discussion in 055ed335a1.

The current behavior is intentional, it was originally designed that way, see 1dfb6404b7. Then, after changing the default macOS settings, the intended behavior was broken, and Blender had incorrect default settings, see #71431 #64917. It was fixed in 055ed335a1. There is no bug here, I would qualify it as a feature request. ***I think there may be a preference for "Invert Orbit", but it should work consistently between the trackpad, mouse, and gizmo.*** There is some discussion in 055ed335a1.

Russell B commented

2021-02-26 22:20:44 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Fake-User

Russell B commented

2021-02-26 22:27:29 +01:00

I understand why this was changed, but I strongly disagree with how it has been implemented. When left click select was implemented, Blender didn't get rid of right click selection, it gave the user the option to choose which one they where used to. With the current "fix" everyone who was familiar to the old orbit has been left confused and disoriented. I understand that there has never been a feature to "invert the orbit rotation", but this patch should not have been merged into the master before such a feature was created.

Falk David commented

2021-03-10 10:26:23 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Zuko

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-03-10 11:12:56 +01:00

Added subscriber: @lichtwerk

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-03-10 11:12:56 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs Developer To Reproduce'

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-03-10 11:12:56 +01:00

@jenkm: I havent followed the whole discussion, but if you say this is working as intended atm, we might as well close this.
If you want to keep this as TODO (adding an option for this), please do so.
Or classify this as Design task.

But from the triaging perspective, there is not much we can do here atm.

@jenkm: I havent followed the whole discussion, but if you say this is working as intended atm, we might as well close this. If you want to keep this as TODO (adding an option for this), please do so. Or classify this as Design task. But from the triaging perspective, there is not much we can do here atm.

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-03-10 11:14:51 +01:00

note Needs Developer to Reproduce still needs to be renamed to Needs Information from Developer, so this should just indicate that this is in the hands of the module to decide now.

note `Needs Developer to Reproduce` still needs to be renamed to `Needs Information from Developer`, so this should just indicate that this is in the hands of the module to decide now.

ivan commented

2021-03-10 11:20:16 +01:00

Also, the new version has increased the orbital rotation speed. Orbit sensitivity in new and last version is 0.4, but in new version it is more faster.

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2021-03-10 13:55:27 +01:00

Also, the new version has increased the orbital rotation speed.

Here f7069d71aa was a fix for the trackpad's deltas which were two times smaller than they should be on the retina screen.

> Also, the new version has increased the orbital rotation speed. Here f7069d71aa was a fix for the trackpad's deltas which were two times smaller than they should be on the retina screen.

Ankit Meel commented

2021-03-18 06:19:34 +01:00

Added subscriber: @grahamkrenz

graham krenz commented

2021-03-18 19:33:10 +01:00

Not to beat a dead horse, but I want to emphasize the impact on my workflow has been large enough that I have reverted to 2.91 to escape the new tracking speed and impossible to invert tracking direction.

This patch should not have been merged. This is not a trivial item, this should not be triaged out.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I want to emphasize the impact on my workflow has been large enough that I have reverted to 2.91 to escape the new tracking speed and impossible to invert tracking direction. This patch should not have been merged. This is not a trivial item, this should not be triaged out.

Ryan Holmquist commented

2021-03-22 16:41:48 +01:00

Added subscriber: @ryanh

Ryan Holmquist commented

2021-03-22 16:41:48 +01:00

I urge the developers to not disregard this request. Please add the ability to invert orbit direction.

There is likely quite a sizable number of Magic Mouse users who have been encumbered by the change. Even if was always intended that Blender would mirror the system setting (the "natural" scroll toggle), it's a jarring change for Mac users such as myself launching 2.92 for the first time, since I've been trained to scroll counter to what the "natural" direction would be. Expecting users to go to the trouble of toggling off natural scroll in their system preferences whenever they use Blender forfeits an opportunity to make a simple quality of life update for a feature that users otherwise would have expected, since there's a good amount of customization within the navigation preferences already. Aside from Magic Mouse users, one could imagine the number of others who would prefer inverted orbit on certain or all axes.

I urge the developers to not disregard this request. Please add the ability to invert orbit direction. There is likely quite a sizable number of Magic Mouse users who have been encumbered by the change. Even if was always intended that Blender would mirror the system setting (the "natural" scroll toggle), it's a jarring change for Mac users such as myself launching 2.92 for the first time, since I've been trained to scroll counter to what the "natural" direction would be. Expecting users to go to the trouble of toggling off natural scroll in their system preferences whenever they use Blender forfeits an opportunity to make a simple quality of life update for a feature that users otherwise would have expected, since there's a good amount of customization within the navigation preferences already. Aside from Magic Mouse users, one could imagine the number of others who would prefer inverted orbit on certain or all axes.

graham krenz commented

2021-03-22 17:28:38 +01:00

Thanks Ryan, this does represent an existential threat to my use of Blender, if this change persists I will switch software to avoid switching hardware.

Russell B commented

2021-03-22 18:23:21 +01:00

Hey everyone! There is currently better place to voice your opinions about this change. This thread is a bug report, but because it is not considered a bug by the developers, it will likely only get glossed over. If you want to have a better chance at getting a toggle, the feature commit is the best place to do it!

https://developer.blender.org/rB055ed335a111bebed7193acd083f54d5c82929ff

If this change has been as much of a headache for you as it has been for me, go over there and make some noise about about.

Hey everyone! There is currently better place to voice your opinions about this change. This thread is a bug report, but because it is not considered a bug by the developers, it will likely only get glossed over. If you want to have a better chance at getting a toggle, the feature commit is the best place to do it! https://developer.blender.org/rB055ed335a111bebed7193acd083f54d5c82929ff If this change has been as much of a headache for you as it has been for me, go over there and make some noise about about.

Ankit Meel commented

2021-03-22 18:38:47 +01:00

Added subscribers: @JulianEisel, @ankitm

Ankit Meel commented

2021-03-22 18:38:47 +01:00

If this change has been as much of a headache for you as it has been for me, go over there and make some noise about about.

That's bad advice. See the To: and CC section of your emails to see who's listening. Concern is not a replacement for bug report.

@JulianEisel could you change the status of the report please ? @jenkm already expressed his take above.

> If this change has been as much of a headache for you as it has been for me, go over there and make some noise about about. That's bad advice. See the `To:` and `CC` section of your emails to see who's listening. Concern is not a replacement for bug report. ------- @JulianEisel could you change the status of the report please ? @jenkm already expressed his take above.

graham krenz commented

2021-03-22 18:39:58 +01:00

In #86025#1134260, @ankitm wrote:

If this change has been as much of a headache for you as it has been for me, go over there and make some noise about about.

That's bad advice. See the To: and CC section of your emails to see who's listening. Concern is not a replacement for bug report.

@JulianEisel could you change the status of the report please ? @jenkm already expressed his take above.

I have done both, in the meantime, C4D it is.

> In #86025#1134260, @ankitm wrote: >> If this change has been as much of a headache for you as it has been for me, go over there and make some noise about about. > That's bad advice. See the `To:` and `CC` section of your emails to see who's listening. Concern is not a replacement for bug report. > > ------- > > @JulianEisel could you change the status of the report please ? @jenkm already expressed his take above. I have done both, in the meantime, C4D it is.

Russell B commented

2021-03-23 01:46:39 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Ankit-1

Russell B commented

2021-03-23 01:46:39 +01:00

@Ankit-1

That's bad advice. See the To: and CC section of your emails to see who's listening. Concern is not a replacement for bug report.

This thread is the bug report. That is why I was sending people over to the commit and away from here :/

@Ankit-1 > That's bad advice. See the `To:` and `CC` section of your emails to see who's listening. Concern is not a replacement for bug report. This thread is the bug report. That is why I was sending people over to the commit and away from here :/

Pete Thorne commented

2021-03-31 07:43:26 +02:00

Added subscriber: @ee0pdt

Pete Thorne commented

2021-03-31 07:43:26 +02:00

To the devs in the Blender team watching this: What should the affecting Mac community do? Seems there is a potential for a new option to invert orbit, should this bug report be changed to a feature request? Or should we make a new request somewhere?

In the meantime, we're all a bit frustrated and just want to get on with building stuff without having to relearn what was natural to us up to now.

To the devs in the Blender team watching this: What should the affecting Mac community do? Seems there is a potential for a new option to invert orbit, should this bug report be changed to a feature request? Or should we make a new request somewhere? In the meantime, we're all a bit frustrated and just want to get on with building stuff without having to relearn what was natural to us up to now.

ivan commented

2021-03-31 09:50:46 +02:00

Removed subscriber: @Zuko

graham krenz commented

2021-03-31 16:04:09 +02:00

In #86025#1138816, @ee0pdt wrote:
To the devs in the Blender team watching this: What should the affecting Mac community do? Seems there is a potential for a new option to invert orbit, should this bug report be changed to a feature request? Or should we make a new request somewhere?

In the meantime, we're all a bit frustrated and just want to get on with building stuff without having to relearn what was natural to us up to now.

Hi, not a dev but I've reverted to version 2.91 which retains proper mac functionality that we've all gotten used to for the last decade. I would also start learning alternative software, I was able to find copy of 3DS Max and have been skills transferring since this happened.

Can't image using blender professionally if a major interface change for a large percent of users is going to be implemented this way. If this is something you use for work, I recommend you discontinue using Blender as early as you can.

> In #86025#1138816, @ee0pdt wrote: > To the devs in the Blender team watching this: What should the affecting Mac community do? Seems there is a potential for a new option to invert orbit, should this bug report be changed to a feature request? Or should we make a new request somewhere? > > In the meantime, we're all a bit frustrated and just want to get on with building stuff without having to relearn what was natural to us up to now. Hi, not a dev but I've reverted to version 2.91 which retains proper mac functionality that we've all gotten used to for the last decade. I would also start learning alternative software, I was able to find copy of 3DS Max and have been skills transferring since this happened. Can't image using blender professionally if a major interface change for a large percent of users is going to be implemented this way. If this is something you use for work, I recommend you discontinue using Blender as early as you can.

Philipp Oeser removed the

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Orbit inverted on Mac with Magic Mouse #86025