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GHOST: Process full mouse move resolution in Win32 #125949

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YimingWu wants to merge 3 commits from ChengduLittleA/blender:ghost-win32-mousemove into main
pull from: ChengduLittleA/blender:ghost-win32-mousemove
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YimingWu commented 2024-08-06 10:16:22 +02:00
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In Win32, WM_MOUSEMOVE don't usually report all the mouse move events.
So when using a non-pen device to draw stuff, like grease pencil or texture paint, you will very easily see jagged lines.
This is just how WM_MOUSEMOVE event behaves. It doesn't give you more granulated events unlike on X11.

This patch attempts to get all the mouse events and send them in sequence so a smoother input can be achieved, and
any generic pointer device would be benefited.

Update:

There's likely a bug with GetMouseMovePointsEx in Win32 that prevents this from working properly. So probably can't implement this since if the event doesn't work you aren't even able to manipulate user interface.

Before After
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In Win32, `WM_MOUSEMOVE` don't usually report all the mouse move events. So when using a non-pen device to draw stuff, like grease pencil or texture paint, you will very easily see jagged lines. This is just how `WM_MOUSEMOVE` event behaves. It doesn't give you more granulated events unlike on X11. This patch attempts to get all the mouse events and send them in sequence so a smoother input can be achieved, and any generic pointer device would be benefited. Update: There's likely a bug with `GetMouseMovePointsEx` in Win32 that prevents this from working properly. So probably can't implement this since if the event doesn't work you aren't even able to manipulate user interface. | Before | After | |-----|-----| | ![image](/attachments/50ed9459-402c-4cc4-84b5-f1b64487fad6) | ![image](/attachments/23542435-2651-4af9-86fb-57b45e091877) |
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YimingWu added the
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YimingWu added 2 commits 2024-08-06 10:16:29 +02:00
YimingWu added 1 commit 2024-08-06 10:36:16 +02:00
YimingWu changed title from WIP: GHOST: Process full mouse move resolution in Win32 to GHOST: Process full mouse move resolution in Win32 2024-08-06 10:36:45 +02:00
YimingWu requested review from Harley Acheson 2024-08-06 10:37:02 +02:00
Harley Acheson commented 2024-08-06 19:33:47 +02:00
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I haven't actually tested this yet, or looked at it much, so the following comments could be all wrong and/or dumb...

I think you can pass your timestamp in the input MOUSEMOVEPOINT's time. That way if there are multiple positions with the same values it will use the timestamp to get the right one. "If your application supplies a time stamp, the GetMouseMovePointsEx function will use it to differentiate between two equal points that were recorded at different times."

The docs on this API function are a bit vague about issues with multiple monitors. It mentions that in the case of multiple monitors it can give bad data if you give it negative values or if returned coordinates are negative, which is says "can occur if multiple monitors are present". But then it goes on to give an example of how to correct for this yet it is only for the case of using GMMP_USE_HIGH_RESOLUTION_POINTS, not GMMP_USE_DISPLAY_POINTS. But the remarks don't explicitly say that you can get erroneous values in those situations only if using GMMP_USE_DISPLAY_POINTS. Nor does it say that you should use GMMP_USE_HIGH_RESOLUTION_POINTS for multiple monitor support.

Not trying to second-guess Microsoft, but their example code looks dodgy to me in the case of monitors that differ in DPI or user scale.

Their example is here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/nf-winuser-getmousemovepointsex

The above confusion about multiple monitors led me to this document about how Paint.net removed their use of GetMouseMovePointsEx specifically because it worked badly with multiple monitors and/or with differing DPI or scale.

https://blog.getpaint.net/2019/11/14/paint-net-4-2-6-alpha-build-7258/

So in total this makes me a bit nervous that MS added this function a long time ago (Windows 2000) and haven't update it or the docs to consider differing scale or dpi. Multiple monitors were a thing back then but not with different scale or dpi.

I haven't actually tested this yet, or looked at it much, so the following comments could be all wrong and/or dumb... I _think_ you can pass your timestamp in the input MOUSEMOVEPOINT's time. That way if there are multiple positions with the same values it will use the timestamp to get the right one. "If your application supplies a time stamp, the GetMouseMovePointsEx function will use it to differentiate between two equal points that were recorded at different times." The docs on this API function are a bit vague about issues with multiple monitors. It mentions that in the case of multiple monitors it can give bad data if you give it negative values or if returned coordinates are negative, which is says "can occur if multiple monitors are present". But then it goes on to give an example of how to correct for this yet it is only for the case of using GMMP_USE_HIGH_RESOLUTION_POINTS, not GMMP_USE_DISPLAY_POINTS. But the remarks don't explicitly say that you can get erroneous values in those situations only if using GMMP_USE_DISPLAY_POINTS. Nor does it say that you should use GMMP_USE_HIGH_RESOLUTION_POINTS for multiple monitor support. Not trying to second-guess Microsoft, but their example code looks dodgy to me in the case of monitors that differ in DPI or user scale. Their example is here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/nf-winuser-getmousemovepointsex The above confusion about multiple monitors led me to this document about how Paint.net removed their use of GetMouseMovePointsEx specifically because it worked badly with multiple monitors and/or with differing DPI or scale. https://blog.getpaint.net/2019/11/14/paint-net-4-2-6-alpha-build-7258/ So in total this makes me a bit nervous that MS added this function a long time ago (Windows 2000) and haven't update it or the docs to consider differing scale or dpi. Multiple monitors were a thing back then but not with different scale or dpi.
YimingWu commented 2024-08-07 07:43:16 +02:00
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@Harley I actually have tested this with my own painting program with dual screen setup, if it's using GMMP_USE_DISPLAY_POINTS it will be correct in this logic regardless of screen configurations (and in their conversion code example they also just pass that along). I haven't tried to use it with DPI scale, I will be ensuring that works (or if it doesn't I'll try find a way to do it lol)

Also I think Blender always use full screen resolution (not scaled by windows), so DPI scale shouldn't really be a problem...

@Harley I actually have tested this with my own painting program with dual screen setup, if it's using `GMMP_USE_DISPLAY_POINTS` it will be correct in this logic regardless of screen configurations (and in their conversion code example they also just pass that along). I haven't tried to use it with DPI scale, I will be ensuring that works (or if it doesn't I'll try find a way to do it lol) Also I think Blender always use full screen resolution (not scaled by windows), so DPI scale shouldn't really be a problem...
YimingWu commented 2024-08-07 13:27:27 +02:00
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Hi @Harley ! Actually it's not really the problem of DPI scale, but rather the placement of the second screen. (I'm on win11 atm)

I can have events working as long as screens are configured in layout 1 regardless of DPI scale (small screen is main screen). if in layout 2 then blender would only register the events below half of the screen (below origin of the main screen).

aaaand GMMP_USE_HIGH_RESOLUTION_POINTS seems to be broken as well, So this does seem to be a windows bug unfortunately :(

Hi @Harley ! Actually it's not really the problem of DPI scale, but rather the placement of the second screen. (I'm on win11 atm) I can have events working as long as screens are configured in layout 1 regardless of DPI scale (small screen is main screen). if in layout 2 then blender would only register the events below half of the screen (below origin of the main screen). aaaand `GMMP_USE_HIGH_RESOLUTION_POINTS` seems to be broken as well, So this does seem to be a windows bug unfortunately :(
YimingWu commented 2024-08-07 16:54:33 +02:00
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Maybe one way to get pas this is to check whether we have more than 1 monitors plugged in (and also detect every time that configuration changes), sounds less optimal but would generally lead to a nicer mouse experience overall under windows. e.g. I typically use mouse to sculpt

Maybe one way to get pas this is to check whether we have more than 1 monitors plugged in (and also detect every time that configuration changes), sounds less optimal but would generally lead to a nicer mouse experience overall under windows. e.g. I typically use mouse to sculpt
Ray molenkamp commented 2024-08-07 17:05:56 +02:00
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if available maybe ping @PrototypeNM1 he likely walked this minefield before and may have insights.

if available maybe ping @PrototypeNM1 he likely walked this minefield before and may have insights.
Harley Acheson commented 2024-08-07 17:11:41 +02:00
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Is it just that it can screw up in some circumstances for a window on a particular monitor if that monitor is set to a high dpi or scale? If that is the case we could just test for that and not run your code in that case. We are informed as our windows are moved between monitors (so we can adjust for the changes in the sizes of the title bar, etc).

Or can it also screw up on a regular monitor if there is a high-dpi one between it and the origin? That would pretty hard to deal with.

Or is it something more specific, like a high-dpi monitor that has parts below the origin point? We could test for that.

Is it just that it can screw up in some circumstances for a window on a particular monitor if that monitor is set to a high dpi or scale? If that is the case we could just test for that and not run your code in that case. We are informed as our windows are moved between monitors (so we can adjust for the changes in the sizes of the title bar, etc). Or can it also screw up on a regular monitor if there is a high-dpi one between it and the origin? That would pretty hard to deal with. Or is it something more specific, like a high-dpi monitor that has parts below the origin point? We could test for that.
Harley Acheson commented 2024-08-07 17:14:13 +02:00
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if available maybe ping @PrototypeNM1 he likely walked this minefield before and may have insights.

Yes, I have been having lots of Déjà vu about this particular API call. I think we've tried this before.

> if available maybe ping @PrototypeNM1 he likely walked this minefield before and may have insights. Yes, I have been having lots of Déjà vu about this particular API call. I think we've tried this before.
YimingWu commented 2024-08-07 18:10:24 +02:00
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According to my tests, this always works:

  • have primary screen on left and top most so no coordinates would ever go below 0,0 for the origin of the entire frame buffer
  • different DPI configuration in this setup doesn't seem to matter, mouse events always worked.

This won't work:

  • any of the portion of the screen has exceeded the top/left border of the primary screen
    • in which case when your mouse move to those positions the coordinates can be negative related to the screen, however that function only seem to accept positive points (?)
    • still seems to work fine in all positions that's to the right and below the origin point, including on main monitor and extended monitor regardless of DPI setting.

I think if I print and look at the coordinates I could find out how it works (that is, if calls like "client to screen" always worked)...

According to my tests, this always works: - have primary screen on left and top most so no coordinates would ever go below 0,0 for the origin of the entire frame buffer - different DPI configuration in this setup doesn't seem to matter, mouse events always worked. This won't work: - any of the portion of the screen has exceeded the top/left border of the primary screen - in which case when your mouse move to those positions the coordinates can be negative related to the screen, however that function only seem to accept positive points (?) - still seems to work fine in all positions that's to the right and below the origin point, including on main monitor and extended monitor regardless of DPI setting. I think if I print and look at the coordinates I could find out how it works (that is, if calls like "client to screen" always worked)...
Harley Acheson commented 2024-08-07 18:28:28 +02:00
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Oh, so if that thing can't handle negative values then we could probably just skip your code if the window rect (relative to the combined desktop) contains negative values?

Oh, so if that thing can't handle negative values then we could probably just skip your code if the window rect (relative to the combined desktop) contains negative values?
YimingWu commented 2024-08-07 18:31:35 +02:00
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I'm not sure what the exact value is. I have to check tomorrow. The problems is that none of the coordinates are supposed to be negative in the first place, the framebuffer origin should be as low as you go so I'm not entirely sure about the mechanism at work here.

I'm not sure what the exact value is. I have to check tomorrow. The problems is that none of the coordinates are supposed to be negative in the first place, the framebuffer origin should be as low as you go so I'm not entirely sure about the mechanism at work here.
Nicholas Rishel commented 2024-08-07 23:39:47 +02:00
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GetMouseMovePointsEx returns corrupt data for quadrants 2 through 4 of the screen when the input is in absolute coordinates. This most commonly occurs with tablets, remote desktop, and Win32 calls to set the mouse position. This is likely due to Q2-4 having a leading 1 when reporting position, which combines with the aforementioned "negative" values issue due to bit casting in Windows mouse handling code (outside of our control).

I believe I had previously chased down that we can't tell if the source of mouse movement is absolute or relative without using the RawInput API, which itself would provide values that are not usable with GetMouseMovePointsEx due to not factoring in mouse acceleration. To the best of my knowledge, the unfortunate situation on Windows is that there is no way to handle all mouse input without this breakage. Also unfortunate is that we have learned this lesson several times, last time I put a warning against using GetMouseMovePointsEx but that seems to have been removed at some point so I anticipate we'll continue relearning this lesson into the future. :(

`GetMouseMovePointsEx` returns corrupt data for quadrants 2 through 4 of the screen when the input is in absolute coordinates. This most commonly occurs with tablets, remote desktop, and Win32 calls to set the mouse position. This is likely due to Q2-4 having a leading 1 when reporting position, which combines with the aforementioned "negative" values issue due to bit casting in Windows mouse handling code (outside of our control). I believe I had previously chased down that we can't tell if the source of mouse movement is absolute or relative without using the RawInput API, which itself would provide values that are not usable with `GetMouseMovePointsEx` due to not factoring in mouse acceleration. To the best of my knowledge, the [unfortunate](https://blog.getpaint.net/2019/11/14/paint-net-4-2-6-alpha-build-7258/) situation on Windows is that there is no way to handle all mouse input without this breakage. Also unfortunate is that we have learned this lesson several times, last time I put a warning against using `GetMouseMovePointsEx` but that seems to have been removed at some point so I anticipate we'll continue relearning this lesson into the future. :(
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YimingWu commented 2024-08-08 02:26:58 +02:00
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thanks @PrototypeNM1 ! I wonder if reporting this to microsoft would do any good... I guess since pen input works, this could be like... not a high priority but it kinda sucks this way compared to X11 🤔

thanks @PrototypeNM1 ! I wonder if reporting this to microsoft would do any good... I guess since pen input works, this could be like... not a high priority but it kinda sucks this way compared to X11 🤔
Harley Acheson commented 2024-08-08 02:48:46 +02:00
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Is it an option to use RAW mouse pointer input? I know that means we don't get pointer acceleration, but perhaps we could do that ourselves? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36862013/raw-input-and-cursor-acceleration

Is it an option to use RAW mouse pointer input? I know that means we don't get pointer acceleration, but perhaps we could do that ourselves? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36862013/raw-input-and-cursor-acceleration
YimingWu commented 2024-08-08 14:13:33 +02:00
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@Harley doesn't this mean that the user might experience different acceleration than what would be through the OS?

@Harley doesn't this mean that the user might experience different acceleration than what would be through the OS?
Ray molenkamp commented 2024-08-08 14:42:20 +02:00
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Is it an option to use RAW mouse pointer input? I know that means we don't get pointer acceleration, but perhaps we could do that ourselves? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36862013/raw-input-and-cursor-acceleration

Trying to match an undisclosed algorithm for mouse pointer ballistics pretty much guarantees we're gonna screw it up and not match the OS which will lead to "the mouse in blender in weird compared to other apps" tickets, which will likely be much more numerous than the number of the mouse resolution is low tickets we currently get.

Given there is no perfect solution, maybe like tablet input, we could offer a few backends and give the user the choice between low res with ballistics using the current method and a DirectInput or Raw HID input that'll have better resolution but have other drawbacks.

> Is it an option to use RAW mouse pointer input? I know that means we don't get pointer acceleration, but perhaps we could do that ourselves? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36862013/raw-input-and-cursor-acceleration Trying to match an undisclosed algorithm for mouse pointer ballistics pretty much guarantees we're gonna screw it up and not match the OS which will lead to "the mouse in blender in weird compared to other apps" tickets, which will likely be much more numerous than the number of the mouse resolution is low tickets we currently get. Given there is no perfect solution, maybe like tablet input, we could offer a few backends and give the user the choice between low res with ballistics using the current method and a DirectInput or Raw HID input that'll have better resolution but have other drawbacks.
Nicholas Rishel commented 2024-08-08 18:19:56 +02:00
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Is it an option to use RAW mouse pointer input? I know that means we don't get pointer acceleration, but perhaps we could do that ourselves? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36862013/raw-input-and-cursor-acceleration

If we use raw mouse input then we'll also need to handle drawing a virtual cursor so that we don't have visual de-syncs from raw mouse and cursor having different accelerations. This is doable, but I'm not sure we want to do it given the ballistics inconsistency @LazyDodo mentioned.

It might be worth studying the dwExtraInfo field from MOUSEMOVEPOINT to determine if there's a pattern we can use to differentiate relative from absolute input, and disregard the latter if present. We would need to inspect that for mouse, tablet, SendInput, SetCursorPos, remote desktop. If there's a reliable identifier for absolute position input I believe we could use GetMouseMovePointsEx without issue. Note, afaik there is not public documentation (from Microsoft or elsewhere) on the dwExtraInfo field.

> Is it an option to use RAW mouse pointer input? I know that means we don't get pointer acceleration, but perhaps we could do that ourselves? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36862013/raw-input-and-cursor-acceleration If we use raw mouse input then we'll also need to handle drawing a virtual cursor so that we don't have visual de-syncs from raw mouse and cursor having different accelerations. This is doable, but I'm not sure we want to do it given the ballistics inconsistency @LazyDodo mentioned. It might be worth studying the `dwExtraInfo` field from `MOUSEMOVEPOINT ` to determine if there's a pattern we can use to differentiate relative from absolute input, and disregard the latter if present. We would need to inspect that for mouse, tablet, `SendInput`, `SetCursorPos`, remote desktop. If there's a reliable identifier for absolute position input I believe we could use `GetMouseMovePointsEx` without issue. Note, afaik there is not public documentation (from Microsoft or elsewhere) on the `dwExtraInfo` field.
Harley Acheson commented 2024-08-08 18:53:48 +02:00
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If we use raw mouse input then we'll also need to handle drawing a virtual cursor so that we don't have visual de-syncs from raw mouse and cursor having different accelerations. This is doable, but I'm not sure we want to do it given the ballistics inconsistency @LazyDodo mentioned.

No, that sounds like the showstopper for that idea. Thanks!

> If we use raw mouse input then we'll also need to handle drawing a virtual cursor so that we don't have visual de-syncs from raw mouse and cursor having different accelerations. This is doable, but I'm not sure we want to do it given the ballistics inconsistency @LazyDodo mentioned. No, that sounds like the showstopper for that idea. Thanks!
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