works nice & smooth unless we encounter logical circles well, because of function pointers re-hooking i could not debug that in detail may be DAG or modifier stack is .. dunno anyway did abuse pd->pad bit 1 ( i hope this was 'real' padding till now ) to get SoftBodyDetectCollision(..) use mesh_get_derived_XXX [in effect.c] ..[*sigh* (the linetriangle() func is there) ..] and put that to the deflection panel (blush .. i would have decapted anyone in my team doing stuff like that) to defend this commit: it makes you aware of problems ahead having code that works/doesn't (on some conditions) is is usefull to look at i think code is OK , so the problem is either a. me not understanding b. real for locical circles see files --> http://wund.privat.t-online.de/bt/WorkFine1.blend http://wund.privat.t-online.de/bt/WorkFine2.blend http://wund.privat.t-online.de/bt/WorkCrash.blend