Viewport Pies Update 2.81 #67995

New Issue

Brendon Murphy · 2019-07-31T13:56:09+02:00

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-07-31 13:56:09 +02:00

hi, this is the task for the viewport pies update to 2.81.
I've made some significant changes.
Hotkeys better reflect built in mapping. Hotkey conflicts improved. New hotkeys such as "Q" for quick favorites changed in the pies.
Void keymaps now used in Blender by default pies have been removed.
Workspace addons filter is now respected. Addons keymaps needed to respect workspace activation. This was solved by using the "Official Pies" registration and sub module code. In 2.79 the Viewport pies took care to not "enable all at once" to respect the "Official Pies"
I've disabled some of the "Official Pies" already after discussion with @sebastian_k. I think it's also the time now to merge what's remaining of the official pies into the viewport pies. there's conflicting keymaps and not much left there it's easy to absorb. There use was served I think as now there's default blender pies.
Here's some of my changes:

space_view3d_pie_menus.zip
This is not finished yet but I would look at committing within the week so I can write once the manual entry for the documentation.

Note: Looking at the "Official Pies" addon it's all duplicated and fixed by the Viewport pies. It served it's purpose in 2.7x now it's void. It has been removed.
Note 2: after discussion with seb_k, I will be removing some of the viewport pies in favor of the new built in pie menus.

Thanks

hi, this is the task for the viewport pies update to 2.81. I've made some significant changes. Hotkeys better reflect built in mapping. Hotkey conflicts improved. New hotkeys such as "Q" for quick favorites changed in the pies. Void keymaps now used in Blender by default pies have been removed. Workspace addons filter is now respected. Addons keymaps needed to respect workspace activation. This was solved by using the "Official Pies" registration and sub module code. In 2.79 the Viewport pies took care to not "enable all at once" to respect the "Official Pies" I've disabled some of the "Official Pies" already after discussion with @sebastian_k. I think it's also the time now to merge what's remaining of the official pies into the viewport pies. there's conflicting keymaps and not much left there it's easy to absorb. There use was served I think as now there's default blender pies. Here's some of my changes: ![viewport_pies.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7639458/viewport_pies.jpg) [space_view3d_pie_menus.zip](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7639478/space_view3d_pie_menus.zip) This is not finished yet but I would look at committing within the week so I can write once the manual entry for the documentation. Note: Looking at the "Official Pies" addon it's all duplicated and fixed by the Viewport pies. It served it's purpose in 2.7x now it's void. It has been removed. Note 2: after discussion with seb_k, I will be removing some of the viewport pies in favor of the new built in pie menus. Thanks

Brendon Murphy self-assigned this 2019-07-31 13:56:09 +02:00

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-07-31 13:56:09 +02:00

Added subscribers: @sebastian_k, @BrendonMurphy

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-08-03 03:43:20 +02:00

Change Log:
_init:
Use submodules load from Official Pies. Fixed Workspace Addons Filters bug/issue where the addon would not be disabled by the Addons Filter.
Animation Pie:
Keymap change to Shift Spacebar.
Edit Delete Pie:
Re-order menu.
Editor Swithch Pie:
Add Timeline entry.
Manipulator Pie:
Keymap change to Alt Spacebar, re-order menu.
Mode Switch Pie:
Keymap change to Ctrl Tab.
Origin Pie:
Keymap Change to Ctrl Alt X, add context sensitive edit mode.
Proportional Edit Pie:
Keymap change to Shift O, Add Inverse Square.
Save Open Pie:
Change keymap area, maybe wrong/not needed workaround for load tests failing the "window" area in 2.80 rc.
View Numpad Pie:
Keymap change to Alt Q to avoid conflict with Quick favorites. Re-order menu.

Viewable Diff is here: 5e5dfaeb72 (diff-77e8a2cf7d67e51889d24e38e28e9221)

This commit will address many issues.
Keymap conflicts with new built in menus such as Quick Favorites "Q" key avoided.
Keymap matching with built in menus where possible.
Keymap conflicts with other release addons are also avoided where possible.
Workspace Addons Filters now work as expected.
Menu design, mostly simple re-ordering of the menus for better readability, consistency and usability.

In the near future, I'll look at further context sensitivity and to merge in the official pies addon.

Thanks

Change Log: __init_: *Use submodules load from Official Pies. Fixed Workspace Addons Filters bug/issue where the addon would not be disabled by the Addons Filter.* Animation Pie: *Keymap change to Shift Spacebar.* Edit Delete Pie: *Re-order menu.* Editor Swithch Pie: *Add Timeline entry.* Manipulator Pie: *Keymap change to Alt Spacebar, re-order menu.* Mode Switch Pie: *Keymap change to Ctrl Tab.* Origin Pie: *Keymap Change to Ctrl Alt X, add context sensitive edit mode.* Proportional Edit Pie: *Keymap change to Shift O, Add Inverse Square.* Save Open Pie: *Change keymap area, maybe wrong/not needed workaround for load tests failing the "window" area in 2.80 rc.* View Numpad Pie: *Keymap change to Alt Q to avoid conflict with Quick favorites. Re-order menu.* Viewable Diff is here: https://github.com/meta-androcto/blenderpython/commit/5e5dfaeb729593831c351545c3d9d59f27813cc8#diff-77e8a2cf7d67e51889d24e38e28e9221 This commit will address many issues. Keymap conflicts with new built in menus such as Quick Favorites "Q" key avoided. Keymap matching with built in menus where possible. Keymap conflicts with other release addons are also avoided where possible. Workspace Addons Filters now work as expected. Menu design, mostly simple re-ordering of the menus for better readability, consistency and usability. In the near future, I'll look at further context sensitivity and to merge in the official pies addon. Thanks

Brendon Murphy changed title from ~~Viewport Pies Update 2.81~~ to Viewport Pies Update 2.81/Remove "Official Pies" addon

2019-08-06 05:18:08 +02:00

Sebastian Koenig commented

2019-08-06 13:48:23 +02:00

It's great that pie menues are being worked on! They can make working so much faster and easier.
However, I think there are a couple of problems with the current way the pies from the addon work.
One of the problems is inconsistency compared to the "default pies":
There are a few builtin pie menues by default.
In the addon there are some pies that have the same functionality as the default ones, however, they are arranged differently, which confuses muscle memory.

The other issue is that many of the pies in this addon use menus or other options inside them. I think those should be avoided. There might even be a design document about that somewhere? Pie menus have been created to allow gesture like lightspeed fast interaction. Regular menus are the opposite of that. Plus, they are not even animated like the pies itself are. So not only do those slow down the interaction, but also look like some error or unfinished design. I would rather not try to cram every option into a pie, but only the most important ones, in order to stick to the 8 maximum options inside a pie. To display every possible option and operator we have regular menues.

In the following I'll give feedback to all pies in this addon.
I would also offer to implement them, or at least do some of them, if necessary.

Animation Pie

Seems fine, except for the menu for Keyframes. I'd propose to make this the playback pie and keep keyframes out of it. Instead, why not add a keyframe pie? There are certainly more things related to animation and keyframing that could easily fill up their own dedicated pie.
Apply Transform Pie

Again, a menu. Instead, a common thing to apply (at least in my experience) is Rotation&Scale.
I do like that Apply and Clear All are on the opposite directions. I'd flip them, though. The right side is, motion wise, the forward movement, the left side the backward motion. So in cases like this where you can sort of "do" and "un-do" something, I would put the "do" thing to the right. The motion to the left is like Backspace, where you clear something.
Cursor Pie

First one is the default, second is from the addon.
This is almost identical to the Default Shift-S Cursor Menu, just with different icons and different order.
To me this seems redundant and I would propose to simply remove it.
As far as I can see, there is only one functional difference, and that is the option to move object & cursor to world origin. However, this is something I never felt the need to do. Like, ever. So I for one do not see the point to add a pie menu just for that.
The Edit Align Pie

This one has a menu there as well. So same design decision: allowed or not allowed?
There the question is also the icon in the Align Y option at the bottom: What does the + sign stand for? I think that icon doesnt help at all here.
The Edit Delete Pie

I find this highly debatable as well. It's like cramming all options in there. And the ones you need the most are not even in the quickly accessible pie options. But that's why we have the regular menus: you can put alll the stuff in there.
I would propose to modifiy this pie and map it to Shift+X, so we can keep the regular menu.
I'd put in these 8 items:
(Using East, West, North, South, etc)

E: Delete Edges
W: Delete Edge_Loops
S: Delete Vertices
N: Delete Faces
NE: Limited Dissolve
NW: Only Faces
SE: Dissolve Edges
SW: Dissolve Vertices

The Editor Switch Pie

Same thing: Trying to put everything in by using a regular menu.
The other thing though is option UV/ImageEditor. Those are now 2 different editors (think of that what you will...). The thing is, it does not bring you to UV editing at all, just to the Image Editor.
As a user I ask myself, where would I use this pie? Probably somewhere I need access to an editor that is not already open. If I look at the editors, almost everyone of them has the Properties already open. So I would not put it into the 8 pie options. In practice, what I mostly switch is 3d-View to ShaderNodes or to UV or Image Editor, somtimes to compositor, sometimes to Motion Tracking (though that might only be me). Animators might swtich to Graph View and Dopesheet. So I propose to remove the extra menus and focus on the most frequently used editors intead

E: Shader Nodes
W: 3D View
S: Image Editor
N: UV Editor
NE: Compositor
NW: Graph View
SE: Dopesheet
SW: Movie Clip Editor or Text Editor or Preferences.

Manipulator Pie
I can see what it does, but with the default keymap it's a bit weird. Clicking in an empty area will deselect your object, so if you happen to do use the DoubleClick hotkey for this pie outside your selection, or over another object, you'll either lose your selection or you will not see the effect of the pie, since it will not show the manipulator without a selected object.
Mode Switching Pie

First one default, second addon.
This seems quite redundant for me, just the order is wrong.
Well, there is a difference: Switching between Object and Edit Mode is a toggle, which makes it ambiguoes. The standard mode switching pie is better in that regard, because it is always totally clear where Object and Edit Mode are.
And also here, a regular menu.
If the edit mode selection can stay, I would put it in the lower left corner, and keep the rest identical to the standard pie. So muscle memory can stay the same there, you'd just have an extra option.
Origin Pie

I love this one! It's one of the things where pie menues really shine: Give you fast and easy access to things that would otherwise take several steps.
Setting origin to the bottom of the object or easily placing the origin to the selection are super useful. Only one little annoyance: Origin to Bottom will take you to Edit Mode. If you call the operator from object mode, it should stay in that mode.
Proportional Edit Pie

My biggest problem with this one is the hotkey. Pie menus are supposed to give you quick access. Shift+O is not something I can do with one hand. Using both hands to bring up the menu makes the pie menu obsolete for me. Instead, I'd simply use O.
It also doesn't work that well:
Using the Connected and Projected only activate those options, but you cannot deactivate them the same way.
Also, it would be nice if using these 2 options would also activate proportional editing
I also don't think that every possible option has to be in there: Random, Constant, Root can be take out of the pie?
Save Pie

Also here I would propose to drop the regular menus.
Instead I propose this:

E: Recover Auto Save
W: New
S: Save
N: Open
NE: Link
NW: Open Recent
SE: Append
SW: Save As

Sculpting Pies

Well, regular menus here as well. I am not a sculptor though, so I have not much to say about this.
Selection Pies

This is even weirder. There is one pie slot empty, instead there is a double nested menu on the other side.
Circle and Box Select are accessible from tool and hotkey, I see no advantage of having them in the pie.
The selection toggle is something that is being avoided in the keymap now (A, Alt+A), to make it more clear, so we should do that in the pie as well.
Not sure how useful it is to select the Camera, but I suppose it was very important to the author.

So how about this:
In Object Mode:
E: Select Pattern
W: Invert Selection
S: Select All
N: Deselect All
NE: Select Linked
NW: Select Grouped
SE: Select by Type
SW: Select Active Camera

In Edit Mode:
E: Select Sharp Edges
W: Invert Selection
S: Select All
N: Deselect All
NE: Select Linked
NW: Select Similar
SE: Select Non Manifold
SW: Select Loose Geometry

Shading Pie

This is fine. Basically the same as standard shading pie, but adding more options.
Snapping pie

Yep, seems find as well. Maybe the hotkey Ctrl+Shift+Tab is a bit hard...
View Numpad pie

Seems to me as this could easily be 2 different pie menus!
Apart from that:
I would flip Front and Back, seem more intuitive to me.

It's great that pie menues are being worked on! They can make working so much faster and easier. However, I think there are a couple of problems with the current way the pies from the addon work. One of the problems is inconsistency compared to the "default pies": There are a few builtin pie menues by default. In the addon there are some pies that have the same functionality as the default ones, however, they are arranged differently, which confuses muscle memory. The other issue is that many of the pies in this addon use menus or other options inside them. I think those should be avoided. There might even be a design document about that somewhere? Pie menus have been created to allow gesture like lightspeed fast interaction. Regular menus are the opposite of that. Plus, they are not even animated like the pies itself are. So not only do those slow down the interaction, but also look like some error or unfinished design. I would rather not try to cram every option into a pie, but only the most important ones, in order to stick to the 8 maximum options inside a pie. To display every possible option and operator we have regular menues. In the following I'll give feedback to all pies in this addon. I would also offer to implement them, or at least do some of them, if necessary. 1. Animation Pie ![animation_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651489/animation_pie.png) Seems fine, except for the menu for Keyframes. I'd propose to make this the playback pie and keep keyframes out of it. Instead, why not add a keyframe pie? There are certainly more things related to animation and keyframing that could easily fill up their own dedicated pie. 2. Apply Transform Pie ![apply_transforms_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651494/apply_transforms_pie.png) Again, a menu. Instead, a common thing to apply (at least in my experience) is Rotation&Scale. I do like that Apply and Clear All are on the opposite directions. I'd flip them, though. The right side is, motion wise, the forward movement, the left side the backward motion. So in cases like this where you can sort of "do" and "un-do" something, I would put the "do" thing to the right. The motion to the left is like Backspace, where you clear something. 3. Cursor Pie ![cursor_pie_default.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651405/cursor_pie_default.png) ![cursor_pie_addon.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651409/cursor_pie_addon.png) First one is the default, second is from the addon. This is almost identical to the Default Shift-S Cursor Menu, just with different icons and different order. To me this seems redundant and I would propose to simply remove it. As far as I can see, there is only one functional difference, and that is the option to move object & cursor to world origin. However, this is something I never felt the need to do. Like, ever. So I for one do not see the point to add a pie menu just for that. 4. The Edit Align Pie ![align_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651424/align_pie.png) This one has a menu there as well. So same design decision: allowed or not allowed? There the question is also the icon in the Align Y option at the bottom: What does the + sign stand for? I think that icon doesnt help at all here. 5. The Edit Delete Pie ![delete_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651428/delete_pie.png) I find this highly debatable as well. It's like cramming all options in there. And the ones you need the most are not even in the quickly accessible pie options. But that's why we have the regular menus: you can put alll the stuff in there. I would propose to modifiy this pie and map it to Shift+X, so we can keep the regular menu. I'd put in these 8 items: (Using East, West, North, South, etc) E: Delete Edges W: Delete Edge_Loops S: Delete Vertices N: Delete Faces NE: Limited Dissolve NW: Only Faces SE: Dissolve Edges SW: Dissolve Vertices 6. The Editor Switch Pie ![editor_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651463/editor_pie.png) Same thing: Trying to put everything in by using a regular menu. The other thing though is option UV/ImageEditor. Those are now 2 different editors (think of that what you will...). The thing is, it does not bring you to UV editing at all, just to the Image Editor. As a user I ask myself, where would I use this pie? Probably somewhere I need access to an editor that is not already open. If I look at the editors, almost everyone of them has the Properties already open. So I would not put it into the 8 pie options. In practice, what I mostly switch is 3d-View to ShaderNodes or to UV or Image Editor, somtimes to compositor, sometimes to Motion Tracking (though that might only be me). Animators might swtich to Graph View and Dopesheet. So I propose to remove the extra menus and focus on the most frequently used editors intead E: Shader Nodes W: 3D View S: Image Editor N: UV Editor NE: Compositor NW: Graph View SE: Dopesheet SW: Movie Clip Editor or Text Editor or Preferences. 7. Manipulator Pie I can see what it does, but with the default keymap it's a bit weird. Clicking in an empty area will deselect your object, so if you happen to do use the DoubleClick hotkey for this pie outside your selection, or over another object, you'll either lose your selection or you will not see the effect of the pie, since it will not show the manipulator without a selected object. 8. Mode Switching Pie ![mode_pie_default.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651412/mode_pie_default.png) ![mode_pie_addon.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651414/mode_pie_addon.png) First one default, second addon. This seems quite redundant for me, just the order is wrong. Well, there is a difference: Switching between Object and Edit Mode is a toggle, which makes it ambiguoes. The standard mode switching pie is better in that regard, because it is always totally clear where Object and Edit Mode are. And also here, a regular menu. *If* the edit mode selection can stay, I would put it in the lower left corner, and keep the rest identical to the standard pie. So muscle memory can stay the same there, you'd just have an extra option. 9. Origin Pie ![origin_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651508/origin_pie.png) I love this one! It's one of the things where pie menues really shine: Give you fast and easy access to things that would otherwise take several steps. Setting origin to the bottom of the object or easily placing the origin to the selection are super useful. Only one little annoyance: Origin to Bottom will take you to Edit Mode. If you call the operator from object mode, it should stay in that mode. 10. Proportional Edit Pie ![proportional_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651514/proportional_pie.png) My biggest problem with this one is the hotkey. Pie menus are supposed to give you quick access. Shift+O is not something I can do with one hand. Using both hands to bring up the menu makes the pie menu obsolete for me. Instead, I'd simply use O. It also doesn't work that well: Using the Connected and Projected only activate those options, but you cannot deactivate them the same way. Also, it would be nice if using these 2 options would also activate proportional editing I also don't think that every possible option has to be in there: Random, Constant, Root can be take out of the pie? 11. Save Pie ![save_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651530/save_pie.png) Also here I would propose to drop the regular menus. Instead I propose this: E: Recover Auto Save W: New S: Save N: Open NE: Link NW: Open Recent SE: Append SW: Save As 12. Sculpting Pies ![sculpting_pies.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651536/sculpting_pies.png) Well, regular menus here as well. I am not a sculptor though, so I have not much to say about this. 13. Selection Pies ![selection_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651538/selection_pie.png) This is even weirder. There is one pie slot empty, instead there is a double nested menu on the other side. Circle and Box Select are accessible from tool and hotkey, I see no advantage of having them in the pie. The selection toggle is something that is being avoided in the keymap now (A, Alt+A), to make it more clear, so we should do that in the pie as well. Not sure how useful it is to select the Camera, but I suppose it was very important to the author. So how about this: In Object Mode: E: Select Pattern W: Invert Selection S: Select All N: Deselect All NE: Select Linked NW: Select Grouped SE: Select by Type SW: Select Active Camera In Edit Mode: E: Select Sharp Edges W: Invert Selection S: Select All N: Deselect All NE: Select Linked NW: Select Similar SE: Select Non Manifold SW: Select Loose Geometry 14. Shading Pie ![shading_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651548/shading_pie.png) This is fine. Basically the same as standard shading pie, but adding more options. 15. Snapping pie ![snapping_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651550/snapping_pie.png) Yep, seems find as well. Maybe the hotkey Ctrl+Shift+Tab is a bit hard... 16. View Numpad pie ![view_numpad_pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7651552/view_numpad_pie.png) Seems to me as this could easily be 2 different pie menus! Apart from that: I would flip Front and Back, seem more intuitive to me.

Sebastian Koenig commented

2019-08-06 13:48:35 +02:00

Added subscriber: @WilliamReynish

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-08-06 14:41:48 +02:00

hi @sebastian_k
Thanks very much for your feedback. I'll look at the issues you have raised as you've made some valid points.
Manipulator pie, I've remapped to Alt Space which was previously used for a removed pie from this set.
Proportional Pie Shift O is also default map for proportional pies. Whilst hard to get to, it can be still accessed by the left hand using thumb for shift and index finger for O whilst still one hand on mouse.
I find the submenu's on the right to take up slack work well, they are positioned generally the same and allow the user to quickly look at all the options without exiting the pie. I see in the Selection pies it's being misused and I'll look at minimizing their use unless there is valid reasons
I've used the boxes in a couple of places, it's a very common sight in many custom pie menus, I'm trying to keep them at a minimum but still wish to expose this feature in a sensible way. Restricted to bottom left or right.
Thanks again for your feedback, a second set of eyes here has helped me identify several issues.

hi @sebastian_k Thanks very much for your feedback. I'll look at the issues you have raised as you've made some valid points. Manipulator pie, I've remapped to Alt Space which was previously used for a removed pie from this set. Proportional Pie Shift O is also default map for proportional pies. Whilst hard to get to, it can be still accessed by the left hand using thumb for shift and index finger for O whilst still one hand on mouse. I find the submenu's on the right to take up slack work well, they are positioned generally the same and allow the user to quickly look at all the options without exiting the pie. I see in the Selection pies it's being misused and I'll look at minimizing their use unless there is valid reasons I've used the boxes in a couple of places, it's a very common sight in many custom pie menus, I'm trying to keep them at a minimum but still wish to expose this feature in a sensible way. Restricted to bottom left or right. Thanks again for your feedback, a second set of eyes here has helped me identify several issues.

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-08-10 06:25:58 +02:00

Hi, @sebastian_k
I've had time to go through your list.
I've made some changes based upon your recommendations.

1/ Animation Pie

Seems fine, except for the menu for Keyframes. I'd propose to make this the playback pie and keep keyframes out of it. Instead, why not add a keyframe pie? There are certainly more things related to animation and keyframing that could easily fill up their own dedicated pie.

I don't disagree that keyframes could be it's own pie, I will revisit this idea, but not yet. By design this addon provides fast access to some common basic tools. The default "I" keyframe menu in Blender is much more complex. Coupling the auto keyframes toggle and very basic keyframes menu with the animation menu works well for fast access to tools.

2/ Apply Transform

Again, a menu. Instead, a common thing to apply (at least in my experience) is Rotation&Scale.
I do like that Apply and Clear All are on the opposite directions. I'd flip them, though. The right side is, motion wise, the forward movement, the left side the backward motion. So in cases like this where you can sort of "do" and "un-do" something, I would put the "do" thing to the right. The motion to the left is like Backspace, where you clear something.

Very good point about the left /right switch here, your request for Rotation and Scale was noted and applied. It required some re-ordering but I think I've got it right. The top 5 entries in the built in apply transforms menu are there along with the clear transforms in the menu.

3/ Cursor Menu

First one is the default, second is from the addon.
This is almost identical to the Default Shift-S Cursor Menu, just with different icons and different order.
To me this seems redundant and I would propose to simply remove it.
As far as I can see, there is only one functional difference, and that is the option to move object & cursor to world origin. However, this is something I never felt the need to do. Like, ever. So I for one do not see the point to add a pie menu just for that.

I will address the menu order issue most likely before 2.81

4/ Edit Align Pie

This one has a menu there as well. So same design decision: allowed or not allowed?
There the question is also the icon in the Align Y option at the bottom: What does the + sign stand for? I think that icon doesnt help at all here.

Removed the icons and some re-order. I try use menu structure wisely, now changed to fill all slots and left neg, right pos. It also I hope shows the viability of carefully used pie panels.

5/ Edit Delete pie

I find this highly debatable as well. It's like cramming all options in there. And the ones you need the most are not even in the quickly accessible pie options. But that's why we have the regular menus: you can put alll the stuff in there.
I would propose to modifiy this pie and map it to Shift+X, so we can keep the regular menu.
I'd put in these 8 items:
(Using East, West, North, South, etc)

Made changes here also, following the vfe left to right in top and bottom sections with the panel in the middle. Have not changed the hotkey yet, I'll need to thoroughly check the availability. Remember, these menu's are optional, users can easily disable pies they don't like.

6/ Editor Switch Pie

Same thing: Trying to put everything in by using a regular menu.
The other thing though is option UV/ImageEditor. Those are now 2 different editors (think of that what you will...). The thing is, it does not bring you to UV editing at all, just to the Image Editor.
As a user I ask myself, where would I use this pie? Probably somewhere I need access to an editor that is not already open. If I look at the editors, almost everyone of them has the Properties already open. So I would not put it into the 8 pie options. In practice, what I mostly switch is 3d-View to ShaderNodes or to UV or Image Editor, somtimes to compositor, sometimes to Motion Tracking (though that might only be me). Animators might swtich to Graph View and Dopesheet. So I propose to remove the extra menus and focus on the most frequently used editors intead

I really like this pie, it's one of the most powerful and useful out of the lot. Having the ability to switch to any editor easily and having all editors available from any editor to any editor from 1 pie is really good., just simple straightforward fast access.

7/ Manipulator Piie

I can see what it does, but with the default keymap it's a bit weird. Clicking in an empty area will deselect your object, so if you happen to do use the DoubleClick hotkey for this pie outside your selection, or over another object, you'll either lose your selection or you will not see the effect of the pie, since it will not show the manipulator without a selected object.

I changed the keymap to Alt Spacebar, previously used in these pies. The double click was indeed a failure. It worked well in Blender 2.79 where I had used it in mesh edit tools to bring up a context menu based on selection. It does not work in 2.8 design.

8/ Mode Switch

Well, there is a difference: Switching between Object and Edit Mode is a toggle, which makes it ambiguoes. The standard mode switching pie is better in that regard, because it is always totally clear where Object and Edit Mode are.
And also here, a regular menu.
If the edit mode selection can stay, I would put it in the lower left corner, and keep the rest identical to the standard pie. So muscle memory can stay the same there, you'd just have an extra option.

I think with this one people will either activate it or us the built in. On that note I did change the hotkey here from Tab as people requested to have the built in Tab function for the quick switch. It's an alternate design and again very useful. The toggle is quick and the edit mode entry is very good. I will be removing the extra items "vert/edge, vert/face" from the enter edit modes and moving them to the Dynamic Spacebar Menu addon soon.

9/ Origin Pie

I love this one! It's one of the things where pie menues really shine: Give you fast and easy access to things that would otherwise take several steps.
Setting origin to the bottom of the object or easily placing the origin to the selection are super useful. Only one little annoyance: Origin to Bottom will take you to Edit Mode. If you call the operator from object mode, it should stay in that mode.

Thanks, I've fixed the origin to bottom mode and also have added the menu in edit mode so you can set origin directly from edit mode.

10/ Proportional Edit Pie

My biggest problem with this one is the hotkey. Pie menus are supposed to give you quick access. Shift+O is not something I can do with one hand. Using both hands to bring up the menu makes the pie menu obsolete for me. Instead, I'd simply use O.
It also doesn't work that well:
Using the Connected and Projected only activate those options, but you cannot deactivate them the same way.
Also, it would be nice if using these 2 options would also activate proportional editing
I also don't think that every possible option has to be in there: Random, Constant, Root can be take out of the pie?

I had trouble mapping to O, then decided to map the same as built in. I'll look at improving these menu's.

11/ Save/Open Pies

Also here I would propose to drop the regular menus.

I will look at updating this in the next round of fixes. Design of this was largely based on Wazou's pie menus some time ago. Conceptually I think it's ok.

12/ Sculpt Pies
It's possible these will go, there's an addon for brushes that handles everything much better.

13/ Selection Pies

This is even weirder. There is one pie slot empty, instead there is a double nested menu on the other side.
Circle and Box Select are accessible from tool and hotkey, I see no advantage of having them in the pie.
The selection toggle is something that is being avoided in the keymap now (A, Alt+A), to make it more clear, so we should do that in the pie as well.
Not sure how useful it is to select the Camera, but I suppose it was very important to the author.

Agreed that these need a rewrite. I will take a look at these again in next round of updates.

14/ Shading Pie
Thanks, quite a sensible pie.

15/ Snapping Pie
Thanks, I'm still not sure on this one, I think I could improve on the context sensitivity and menu content.

16/ View Numpad
Thanks, flipped Front Back as you suggested.

The Viewport Pies were designed to extend the functionality of pies as optional addon set, each pie can be disabled and the original menu restored. It can be used in workspaces independently. Users memory function is not greatly impacted as they would most likely choose which set of pies to use and imprint memory to suit their workflow or fall back on standard menu types. Many options and "experimental or undesired" menu styles were already removed pre 2.79. The extended menus or panels style offers users easy access to common tools and some extra functionality in a controlled way.

Some unwritten rules I use in the addons pies:
Menus: To the right/left, bottom right or bottom. where 1: bottom right. Identifiable: The pie operator name reflects it's a menu. The sub menus opening in a clockwise direction and not opening over the pie menu. Navigation is good and allows continuous motion.
Panels: To the middle left right or bottom left right. where 1: bottom right. Height limitation 3 for left/right 4 for bottom left/right
Vert Face Edge: left to right where possible. top left: vert, top: edge, top right: face as example.

I'm happy with the results here, there's more to do, several pies to re-write. I'll be committing the current version soon and follow up in a week or 2. The current menu styles used in the pies are a core part of their usefulness and design. The use of menus and panels in pie menus is common place and I'm trying to do this in a sensible and organized way and only where needed. I understand that for Officially built in pie menus that this is not desirable. For addons we should not be restricting the use, addons provide a way to express new and different concepts offering flexibility not otherwise available.
Thanks.

Hi, @sebastian_k I've had time to go through your list. I've made some changes based upon your recommendations. 1/ Animation Pie > Seems fine, except for the menu for Keyframes. I'd propose to make this the playback pie and keep keyframes out of it. Instead, why not add a keyframe pie? There are certainly more things related to animation and keyframing that could easily fill up their own dedicated pie. I don't disagree that keyframes could be it's own pie, I will revisit this idea, but not yet. By design this addon provides fast access to some common basic tools. The default "I" keyframe menu in Blender is much more complex. Coupling the auto keyframes toggle and very basic keyframes menu with the animation menu works well for fast access to tools. 2/ Apply Transform > Again, a menu. Instead, a common thing to apply (at least in my experience) is Rotation&Scale. > I do like that Apply and Clear All are on the opposite directions. I'd flip them, though. The right side is, motion wise, the forward movement, the left side the backward motion. So in cases like this where you can sort of "do" and "un-do" something, I would put the "do" thing to the right. The motion to the left is like Backspace, where you clear something. Very good point about the left /right switch here, your request for Rotation and Scale was noted and applied. It required some re-ordering but I think I've got it right. The top 5 entries in the built in apply transforms menu are there along with the clear transforms in the menu. ![pie_apply_transforms.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7655597/pie_apply_transforms.jpg) 3/ Cursor Menu > First one is the default, second is from the addon. > This is almost identical to the Default Shift-S Cursor Menu, just with different icons and different order. > To me this seems redundant and I would propose to simply remove it. > As far as I can see, there is only one functional difference, and that is the option to move object & cursor to world origin. However, this is something I never felt the need to do. Like, ever. So I for one do not see the point to add a pie menu just for that. I will address the menu order issue most likely before 2.81 4/ Edit Align Pie > This one has a menu there as well. So same design decision: allowed or not allowed? > There the question is also the icon in the Align Y option at the bottom: What does the + sign stand for? I think that icon doesnt help at all here. Removed the icons and some re-order. I try use menu structure wisely, now changed to fill all slots and left neg, right pos. It also I hope shows the viability of carefully used pie panels. ![pie_edit_align.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7655778/pie_edit_align.jpg) 5/ Edit Delete pie > I find this highly debatable as well. It's like cramming all options in there. And the ones you need the most are not even in the quickly accessible pie options. But that's why we have the regular menus: you can put alll the stuff in there. > I would propose to modifiy this pie and map it to Shift+X, so we can keep the regular menu. > I'd put in these 8 items: > (Using East, West, North, South, etc) Made changes here also, following the vfe left to right in top and bottom sections with the panel in the middle. Have not changed the hotkey yet, I'll need to thoroughly check the availability. Remember, these menu's are optional, users can easily disable pies they don't like. ![pie_edit_delete.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7656729/pie_edit_delete.jpg) 6/ Editor Switch Pie > Same thing: Trying to put everything in by using a regular menu. > The other thing though is option UV/ImageEditor. Those are now 2 different editors (think of that what you will...). The thing is, it does not bring you to UV editing at all, just to the Image Editor. > As a user I ask myself, where would I use this pie? Probably somewhere I need access to an editor that is not already open. If I look at the editors, almost everyone of them has the Properties already open. So I would not put it into the 8 pie options. In practice, what I mostly switch is 3d-View to ShaderNodes or to UV or Image Editor, somtimes to compositor, sometimes to Motion Tracking (though that might only be me). Animators might swtich to Graph View and Dopesheet. So I propose to remove the extra menus and focus on the most frequently used editors intead I really like this pie, it's one of the most powerful and useful out of the lot. Having the ability to switch to any editor easily and having all editors available from any editor to any editor from 1 pie is really good., just simple straightforward fast access. 7/ Manipulator Piie > I can see what it does, but with the default keymap it's a bit weird. Clicking in an empty area will deselect your object, so if you happen to do use the DoubleClick hotkey for this pie outside your selection, or over another object, you'll either lose your selection or you will not see the effect of the pie, since it will not show the manipulator without a selected object. I changed the keymap to Alt Spacebar, previously used in these pies. The double click was indeed a failure. It worked well in Blender 2.79 where I had used it in mesh edit tools to bring up a context menu based on selection. It does not work in 2.8 design. 8/ Mode Switch > Well, there is a difference: Switching between Object and Edit Mode is a toggle, which makes it ambiguoes. The standard mode switching pie is better in that regard, because it is always totally clear where Object and Edit Mode are. > And also here, a regular menu. > *If* the edit mode selection can stay, I would put it in the lower left corner, and keep the rest identical to the standard pie. So muscle memory can stay the same there, you'd just have an extra option. I think with this one people will either activate it or us the built in. On that note I did change the hotkey here from Tab as people requested to have the built in Tab function for the quick switch. It's an alternate design and again very useful. The toggle is quick and the edit mode entry is very good. I will be removing the extra items "vert/edge, vert/face" from the enter edit modes and moving them to the Dynamic Spacebar Menu addon soon. 9/ Origin Pie > I love this one! It's one of the things where pie menues really shine: Give you fast and easy access to things that would otherwise take several steps. > Setting origin to the bottom of the object or easily placing the origin to the selection are super useful. Only one little annoyance: Origin to Bottom will take you to Edit Mode. If you call the operator from object mode, it should stay in that mode. Thanks, I've fixed the origin to bottom mode and also have added the menu in edit mode so you can set origin directly from edit mode. 10/ Proportional Edit Pie > My biggest problem with this one is the hotkey. Pie menus are supposed to give you quick access. Shift+O is not something I can do with one hand. Using both hands to bring up the menu makes the pie menu obsolete for me. Instead, I'd simply use O. > It also doesn't work that well: > Using the Connected and Projected only activate those options, but you cannot deactivate them the same way. > Also, it would be nice if using these 2 options would also activate proportional editing > I also don't think that every possible option has to be in there: Random, Constant, Root can be take out of the pie? I had trouble mapping to O, then decided to map the same as built in. I'll look at improving these menu's. 11/ Save/Open Pies > Also here I would propose to drop the regular menus. I will look at updating this in the next round of fixes. Design of this was largely based on Wazou's pie menus some time ago. Conceptually I think it's ok. 12/ Sculpt Pies It's possible these will go, there's an addon for brushes that handles everything much better. 13/ Selection Pies > This is even weirder. There is one pie slot empty, instead there is a double nested menu on the other side. > Circle and Box Select are accessible from tool and hotkey, I see no advantage of having them in the pie. > The selection toggle is something that is being avoided in the keymap now (A, Alt+A), to make it more clear, so we should do that in the pie as well. > Not sure how useful it is to select the Camera, but I suppose it was very important to the author. Agreed that these need a rewrite. I will take a look at these again in next round of updates. 14/ Shading Pie Thanks, quite a sensible pie. 15/ Snapping Pie Thanks, I'm still not sure on this one, I think I could improve on the context sensitivity and menu content. 16/ View Numpad Thanks, flipped Front Back as you suggested. The Viewport Pies were designed to extend the functionality of pies as optional addon set, each pie can be disabled and the original menu restored. It can be used in workspaces independently. Users memory function is not greatly impacted as they would most likely choose which set of pies to use and imprint memory to suit their workflow or fall back on standard menu types. Many options and "experimental or undesired" menu styles were already removed pre 2.79. The extended menus or panels style offers users easy access to common tools and some extra functionality in a controlled way. Some unwritten rules I use in the addons pies: Menus: To the right/left, bottom right or bottom. where 1: bottom right. Identifiable: The pie operator name reflects it's a menu. The sub menus opening in a clockwise direction and not opening over the pie menu. Navigation is good and allows continuous motion. Panels: To the middle left right or bottom left right. where 1: bottom right. Height limitation 3 for left/right 4 for bottom left/right Vert Face Edge: left to right where possible. top left: vert, top: edge, top right: face as example. I'm happy with the results here, there's more to do, several pies to re-write. I'll be committing the current version soon and follow up in a week or 2. The current menu styles used in the pies are a core part of their usefulness and design. The use of menus and panels in pie menus is common place and I'm trying to do this in a sensible and organized way and only where needed. I understand that for Officially built in pie menus that this is not desirable. For addons we should not be restricting the use, addons provide a way to express new and different concepts offering flexibility not otherwise available. Thanks.

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-08-11 04:14:10 +02:00

Committed initial round of updates. This is a large commit and I'll leave part 2 for another week or so.

ronald johnson commented

2019-08-12 20:02:49 +02:00

Added subscriber: @billyand

ronald johnson commented

2019-08-12 20:02:49 +02:00

For mode switch, is it possible for holding tab to bring up the pie menu and pressing it to do the quick swap? If not, is there a way to reassign the shortcuts for the pie menu?

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-08-12 23:46:03 +02:00

hi, tab is no longer used in this pie menus, mode switch is Ctrl/Tab

ronald johnson commented

2019-08-13 04:12:01 +02:00

@BrendonMurphy yea, its ctrl+tab. Is there a way for me to reassign the shortcut or for an option to be added in the preferences to have it back to just tab? the extra key is really rough to get used to

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-08-13 05:53:08 +02:00

@billyand hi, It was a tough decision, my reasoning was many users complained that they wanted to use the built in Tab key mode switch for what's considered fastest object/edit mode switch. I decided they were right in this case. If you open the pie modes menu.py file you can easily remove the ctrl=True from both keymaps. I don't think holding the key would work as the built in operator would over-ride here and change modes automatically.

Demeter Dzadik commented

2019-08-17 00:21:40 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Mets

Demeter Dzadik commented

2019-08-17 00:21:40 +02:00

Thank you for maintaining this addon. This morning when I was asking about area.type vs area.ui_type in blender.chat, I was actually about to "fix" the editor switch pie. But here you are, making a much more substantial fix!

I just have one issue. It still says "Node Editor" instead of "Shader Editor"! :P That's not consistent with the panel selector where it is called "Shader Editor".

Thank you for maintaining this addon. This morning when I was asking about area.type vs area.ui_type in blender.chat, I was actually about to "fix" the editor switch pie. But here you are, making a much more substantial fix! I just have one issue. It still says "Node Editor" instead of "Shader Editor"! :P That's not consistent with the panel selector where it is called "Shader Editor".

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-08-18 01:22:39 +02:00

hi @Mets Thanks for your interest, I ended up making some big changes to the editor switch pie.
Matched all icons correctly, matched the content of the editor switch header button, re-order the menus to represent better the order of the header button. This does Break Memory... mine too, but I think it's far better in the long term.
I like to think this is the final incarnation. Layout is clean and readable, usability is still high.

hi @Mets Thanks for your interest, I ended up making some big changes to the editor switch pie. Matched all icons correctly, matched the content of the editor switch header button, re-order the menus to represent better the order of the header button. This does Break Memory... mine too, but I think it's far better in the long term. I like to think this is the final incarnation. Layout is clean and readable, usability is still high. ![editor_switch.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7669672/editor_switch.jpg)

Demeter Dzadik commented

2019-08-18 10:16:06 +02:00

Oh right, the node editor button is a list now! Alright, in that case, perfection! :D

Brendon Murphy changed title from ~~Viewport Pies Update 2.81/Remove "Official Pies" addon~~ to Viewport Pies Update 2.81

2019-08-23 03:37:18 +02:00

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-08-24 11:40:32 +02:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Resolved'

Brendon Murphy closed this issue

2019-08-24 11:40:32 +02:00

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-08-24 11:40:32 +02:00

Finished this round of updates.
Removed: Snap pie Orientation pie, Cursor pie and Proportional editing pie. In these cases Blender's built in pies or menus do the same or better job with the menus and contents.
Updated:
Selection menu: reordered menus
Save menus: reordered menus
Modes Menu: reordered menus, removed excessive selection modes.

This current redesign is complete, I think overall there's a large improvement in the design quality of these menus.
Thanks. closing.

Finished this round of updates. Removed: Snap pie Orientation pie, Cursor pie and Proportional editing pie. In these cases Blender's built in pies or menus do the same or better job with the menus and contents. Updated: Selection menu: reordered menus Save menus: reordered menus Modes Menu: reordered menus, removed excessive selection modes. This current redesign is complete, I think overall there's a large improvement in the design quality of these menus. Thanks. closing.

Artur Mandas commented

2019-09-01 16:39:23 +02:00

Added subscriber: @amandas

Artur Mandas commented

2019-09-01 16:39:23 +02:00

Mode switching pie - you need too much clicking to get into the desired edit mode, which also requires cursor location change to get to Vertex/Edge/Face (don't need so low-level distinction here). This makes modes switching via this pie slow and a bit irritating. I would suggest simplifying it a bit.

Brendon Murphy commented

2019-09-02 00:33:00 +02:00

hi @amandas, thanks, you made me notice an error with the old edit strokes menu showing up everywhere. I was not using my robust menu tester file when rewriting these.

Top is a toggle, Object/Edit mode, also Tab is not affected so for fastest switch Object/Edit, just use Tab or it's a fast upwards motion click in the pie. This was most requested change, moving to Shift Tab to leave Tab as defaults. Defaults also have pie menu Tab functions which can be turned on in preferences. Each menu in the Viewport pies can be turned on or off individually if a particular menu is not to your liking.
Whilst you may think the low level distinction is not needed for v/e/f modes, as pointed out above, there's the toggle so you don't need to use that menu at all and there's built in Tab if you want to quick switch.
The v/e/f modes give the user the ability to "lose 1 step" when entering edit mode. I usually know what mode/selection state I want to be in before entering edit mode, To me it's annoying to be ready to do some face operations, enter edit mode and I'm in vert mode, thus requiring the extra step to switch again at the sub level. The v/e/f switches save this extra move making for a more efficient workflow.
Thanks.

hi @amandas, thanks, you made me notice an error with the old edit strokes menu showing up everywhere. I was not using my robust menu tester file when rewriting these. ![mode_pies.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7713497/mode_pies.jpg) Top is a toggle, Object/Edit mode, also Tab is not affected so for fastest switch Object/Edit, just use Tab or it's a fast upwards motion click in the pie. This was most requested change, moving to Shift Tab to leave Tab as defaults. Defaults also have pie menu Tab functions which can be turned on in preferences. Each menu in the Viewport pies can be turned on or off individually if a particular menu is not to your liking. Whilst you may think the low level distinction is not needed for v/e/f modes, as pointed out above, there's the toggle so you don't need to use that menu at all and there's built in Tab if you want to quick switch. The v/e/f modes give the user the ability to "lose 1 step" when entering edit mode. I usually know what mode/selection state I want to be in before entering edit mode, To me it's annoying to be ready to do some face operations, enter edit mode and I'm in vert mode, thus requiring the extra step to switch again at the sub level. The v/e/f switches save this extra move making for a more efficient workflow. Thanks.

Benjamin commented

2019-11-22 12:49:47 +01:00

Added subscriber: @AlienXtream

Benjamin commented

2019-11-22 12:49:47 +01:00

hi. i know this is really late but 2.81 JUST released and ive updated, however the "tab" pie menu is gone. ive read through this post and have noticed this was a requested change as most people didn't like it apparently however it has become a pivotal part of my work flow to the point of muscle memory. could you possibly add an option in the addon preferences to "override 'tab' key" to restore the 2.80 and prior functionality? this addon has been essential to my workflow for YEARS and this sudden change completely disrupts that. im not trying to seem demanding or anything, its just that i went to use blender and the update was unexpected (steam version for auto updates) and im now all in a tizzy from my plans being disrupted. (like how a minor pothole in the road can put you in a mood for the whole drive). anyway, i rambled a bit there, back to the point. if you could have the option to bring back the pre 2.81 functionality it would be appreciated

p.s sorry if this isnt the place to go for this, its the closest thing ive found even MENTIONING this change so idk where else to go

hi. i know this is really late but 2.81 JUST released and ive updated, however the "tab" pie menu is gone. ive read through this post and have noticed this was a requested change as most people didn't like it apparently however it has become a pivotal part of my work flow to the point of muscle memory. could you possibly add an option in the addon preferences to "override 'tab' key" to restore the 2.80 and prior functionality? this addon has been essential to my workflow for YEARS and this sudden change completely disrupts that. im not trying to seem demanding or anything, its just that i went to use blender and the update was unexpected (steam version for auto updates) and im now all in a tizzy from my plans being disrupted. (like how a minor pothole in the road can put you in a mood for the whole drive). anyway, i rambled a bit there, back to the point. if you could have the option to bring back the pre 2.81 functionality it would be appreciated p.s sorry if this isnt the place to go for this, its the closest thing ive found even MENTIONING this change so idk where else to go

Henrik Goldsack commented

2019-11-22 13:39:58 +01:00

Added subscriber: @HenrikGoldsack

Henrik Goldsack commented

2019-11-22 13:39:58 +01:00

@AlienXtream Hi, I came over this issue too. But there is a happy simple solution. Enable "Tab for Pie menu" in Keymap preferences.
The pie menu buttons are then right where the muscle memory remembers it.

@AlienXtream Hi, I came over this issue too. But there is a happy simple solution. Enable "Tab for Pie menu" in Keymap preferences. The pie menu buttons are then right where the muscle memory remembers it. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8155129/image.png)

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