Updating translations for UI matching the 3.4 documentations of Vietnamese #100347

New Issue

Hoang Duy Tran · 2022-08-11T14:28:40+02:00

Hoang Duy Tran commented

2022-08-11 14:28:40 +02:00

With the current daily update of the Vietnamese Blender manual documentation

Hướng Dẫn sử dụng Blender 3.4 (Blender 3.4 Reference Manual)

I am following a vi.po content I created for the software, you can find a copy on my github account here:

[[ https://github.com/hoangduytranuk/blender_ui/tree/main/3x | hoangduytranuk
/
blender_ui/3x/Vietnamese UI translations ]]

I would like to update the current vi.po from translation project for Vietnamese using this vi.po content to match the manual documentation texts with the UI displays.

Would like to hear your opinions.

With the current daily update of the Vietnamese Blender manual documentation [Hướng Dẫn sử dụng Blender 3.4 (Blender 3.4 Reference Manual) ](https://docs.blender.org/manual/vi/3.4/index.html) I am following a vi.po content I created for the software, you can find a copy on my github account here: [[ https://github.com/hoangduytranuk/blender_ui/tree/main/3x | hoangduytranuk / blender_ui/3x/Vietnamese UI translations ]] I would like to update the current vi.po from translation project for Vietnamese using this vi.po content to match the manual documentation texts with the UI displays. Would like to hear your opinions.

Hoang Duy Tran self-assigned this 2022-08-11 14:28:40 +02:00

Hoang Duy Tran commented

2022-08-11 14:28:40 +02:00

Added subscribers: @hoanguk, @mont29, @ChauHo

Hoang Duy Tran was unassigned by Aaron Carlisle

2022-08-11 17:35:54 +02:00

Bastien Montagne was assigned by Aaron Carlisle

2022-08-11 17:35:54 +02:00

Hoang Duy Tran commented

2022-08-28 18:39:37 +02:00

Dear all, it doesn't look like Chau (BlenderNavi) is interacting with this post anymore. I decided to go ahead with submitting latest changes of the vi.po to the repository to match with UI translation in the manual documentation.

Hoang Duy Tran commented

2022-08-28 18:44:10 +02:00

I have just committed

https://developer.blender.org/rBTS6120

to the latest changes to the 'blender.pot' as of today, 28/08/2022.
Please Do Not overwirte these changes before consulting me, as this affects the manual translations, which I'm processing at the moment for Blender 3.4, thank you.

I have just committed https://developer.blender.org/rBTS6120 to the latest changes to the 'blender.pot' as of today, 28/08/2022. **Please Do Not overwirte these changes before consulting me, as this affects the manual translations, which I'm processing at the moment for Blender 3.4**, thank you.

Bastien Montagne commented

2022-08-28 20:10:38 +02:00

@hoanguk this is absolutely not acceptable behavior. You did NOT get approval for this commit. Please revert this commit immediately, or I will have to remove you from this project.

Bastien Montagne commented

2022-08-28 20:12:10 +02:00

Not to mention that Blender translations are currently still for Blender 3.3, not yet for Blender 3.4!

Hoang Duy Tran commented

2022-08-28 20:13:50 +02:00

Dear Basitien, could you please explain what I did wrong? I did not have any ill intentions in doing the work, as you have said in the message that we can wait for a couple of weeks to see if Chau (BlenderNavi) is responsed or not. I will remove the commit for now, but please explain what did I do wrong.

Best regards,
Hoang Tran

This is the message you and me have been discussed.

hoanguk @hoanguk
02:24
Dear Bastien, I am updating the Blender’s manual 3.4 at the moment with translations for Vietnamese and I have a matching version of UI translation (Vi.po) to follow (creating by myself) so please let me provide the UI translation as well. Please remind me of the link to updating the Vi.po translation file so I can update it as I go along. Thank you. I don’t know how to contact BlenderNavi Ho Ngọc Chau to ask him for permission so could you please inform BlenderNavi of my decision so he won’t feel rejected or something of that nature. It’s just that the whole package is so big and they are all connected, Thank you.

Bastien @mont29
11:14
Hey, I really appreciate your work on translations, but it's not my role to decide what goes into a language I absolutely do not know at all 😉
I'd suggest you create a task in the #translations project, tag Ho Ngọc Chau in it, and if he does not react within a week or two then we can consider he is inactive at least for that release, and we can update vi.po with your work? But he often tend to update vi.po one or two weeks before the final release (as he did in May for 3.2)...

hoanguk
hoanguk @hoanguk
13:30
Thank you Bastien for coming back to me. I have followed your advise and created this task (developer.blender.org/T100347). Hopefully to get the opportunity to finish this work as expected.

👍 1

Dear Basitien, could you please explain what I did wrong? I did not have any ill intentions in doing the work, as you have said in the message that we can wait for a couple of weeks to see if Chau (BlenderNavi) is responsed or not. I will remove the commit for now, but please explain what did I do wrong. Best regards, Hoang Tran This is the message you and me have been discussed. ![Screenshot 2022-08-28 at 19.15.28.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F13427374/Screenshot_2022-08-28_at_19.15.28.png) hoanguk @hoanguk 02:24 Dear Bastien, I am updating the Blender’s manual 3.4 at the moment with translations for Vietnamese and I have a matching version of UI translation (Vi.po) to follow (creating by myself) so please let me provide the UI translation as well. Please remind me of the link to updating the Vi.po translation file so I can update it as I go along. Thank you. I don’t know how to contact BlenderNavi Ho Ngọc Chau to ask him for permission so could you please inform BlenderNavi of my decision so he won’t feel rejected or something of that nature. It’s just that the whole package is so big and they are all connected, Thank you. Bastien @mont29 11:14 Hey, I really appreciate your work on translations, but it's not my role to decide what goes into a language I absolutely do not know at all 😉 I'd suggest you create a task in the #translations project, tag Ho Ngọc Chau in it, and if he does not react within a week or two then we can consider he is inactive at least for that release, and we can update `vi.po` with your work? But he often tend to update `vi.po` one or two weeks before the final release (as he did in May for 3.2)... hoanguk hoanguk @hoanguk 13:30 Thank you Bastien for coming back to me. I have followed your advise and created this task (developer.blender.org/T100347). Hopefully to get the opportunity to finish this work as expected. 👍 1

Bastien Montagne commented

2022-08-28 20:20:17 +02:00

First of all, since you are not the owner of this translation, do not commit anything there without explicit agreement from either said owner (Chau currently), or the person responsible for the whole translations project (me).

And you could have checked the recent commit history and seen that Chau did update the translations for 3.3 last week.

As said above, current translations are for Blender 3.3, not 3.4. The switch will happen within a few weeks.

First of all, since you are not the owner of this translation, do not commit anything there without explicit agreement from either said owner (Chau currently), or the person responsible for the whole translations project (me). And you could have checked the recent commit history and seen that Chau did update the translations for 3.3 last week. As said above, current translations are for Blender **3.3**, not 3.4. The switch will happen within a few weeks.

Hoang Duy Tran commented

2022-08-28 20:32:49 +02:00

Ok, thank you for the update. I will be back for 3.4. Sorry for not paying attentions to the SVN latest activity.

Remember you are NOT Vietnamese and hence you are illiterate to the meaning of translations and the level of accuracy for users, and you are NOT qualified to decide which should be and which should not. So let the experts decide, OK. I respect you but I will not tolerate threats. Be courteous and you will get it in return.

Regards
Hoang Tran

Ok, thank you for the update. I will be back for 3.4. Sorry for not paying attentions to the SVN latest activity. Remember you are NOT Vietnamese and hence you are illiterate to the meaning of translations and the level of accuracy for users, and you are NOT qualified to decide which should be and which should not. So let the experts decide, OK. I respect you but I will not tolerate threats. Be courteous and you will get it in return. Regards Hoang Tran

Gabriel Gazzán commented

2022-08-29 02:04:56 +02:00

Added subscriber: @GabrielGazzan

Gabriel Gazzán commented

2022-08-29 02:04:56 +02:00

@hoanguk
If I may, Bastien is just playing his role here, protecting translations against unauthorized changes.
He's not saying anything about the quality of your translation (or the current one), he's just assuring everyone contributes in a sane and agreed manner to the project.
Perhaps you're not accustomed to work in a project as big as Blender, but for things to work well here, there must be certain procedures everyone should follow so there are less clashes, conflicts and lost work.

I suggest you reach out to the current owner of the translation seeking for good comunication between you two, and if for whatever reason you can't do it before the next release you should (at least temporarily) adapt the manual translation to what the UI currently shows (remember documentation is "the manual of the software", and not the other way round).

Finally, I know sometimes it can be frustrating to have to "slow down" the pace for burocratic reasons, specially if you are used to work alone and can spend hefty amounts of time working on it, but it's usually the price to pay when you start anew in a project like this one.
Please grow some patience and hopefully you will find a solution for this problem, and a good way to work together from now on, too.

@hoanguk If I may, Bastien is just playing his role here, protecting translations against unauthorized changes. He's not saying anything about the quality of your translation (or the current one), he's just assuring everyone contributes in a sane and agreed manner to the project. Perhaps you're not accustomed to work in a project as big as Blender, but for things to work well here, there must be certain procedures everyone should follow so there are less clashes, conflicts and lost work. I suggest you reach out to the current owner of the translation seeking for good comunication between you two, and if for whatever reason you can't do it before the next release you should (at least temporarily) adapt the manual translation to what the UI currently shows (remember documentation is "the manual of the software", and not the other way round). Finally, I know sometimes it can be frustrating to have to "slow down" the pace for burocratic reasons, specially if you are used to work alone and can spend hefty amounts of time working on it, but it's usually the price to pay when you start anew in a project like this one. Please grow some patience and hopefully you will find a solution for this problem, and a good way to work together from now on, too.

Chau commented

2022-08-29 03:51:44 +02:00

Please every person no fights.

Hoàng: I add some changes from your version 3.4 vi.po file in version 3.3 vi.po file (your file is good and help me). After Bastien update all .po files Monday, I will add more. I will not promise add ALL stuff I think is good because have 30 000+ items but I will try add many. Also, that will help version 3.3 become similar with your 3.4 version of Blender's manual.

Please don't waste a lot of time with version 3.4 vi.po now because many changes will happen. Start work when Blender Institute near release for Blender 3.3 final. After release Blender 3.3 final, you can replace me for version 3.4+. I think give you that surprise later but I think you become impatient and I want avoid big conflict.

Nam Mô A Di Đà Phật

Please every person no fights. Hoàng: I add some changes from your version 3.4 vi.po file in version 3.3 vi.po file (your file is good and help me). After Bastien update all .po files Monday, I will add more. I will not promise add ALL stuff I think is good because have 30 000+ items but I will try add many. Also, that will help version 3.3 become similar with your 3.4 version of Blender's manual. Please don't waste a lot of time with version 3.4 vi.po now because many changes will happen. Start work when Blender Institute near release for Blender 3.3 final. After release Blender 3.3 final, you can replace me for version 3.4+. I think give you that surprise later but I think you become impatient and I want avoid big conflict. Nam Mô A Di Đà Phật

Hoang Duy Tran commented

2022-08-29 11:30:33 +02:00

Thank you Chau for coming back and answering the post. I'm glad you found my translations valuable and is incorporating them into 3.3, and thank you for letting me taking over on GUI front from 3.4 onwards.

Blessings,
Hoang Tran

Thank you Chau for coming back and answering the post. I'm glad you found my translations valuable and is incorporating them into 3.3, and thank you for letting me taking over on GUI front from 3.4 onwards. Blessings, Hoang Tran

Damien Picard commented

2022-08-29 14:37:21 +02:00

Added subscriber: @pioverfour

Damien Picard commented

2022-08-29 14:37:22 +02:00

If you want to use all the 3.4 translations for 3.3, you can:

go to the vi directory in the translations branches
download the 3.4 ones and rename them to vi.new.po
I see that its source comments don’t use the proper format, so delete them, they’ll be recreated later. For example, using sed:
sed -e "s/^# :src:.*//g" vi.new.po > vi.clean.po
copy the current translations to vi.old.po
use the following command:
msgcat --use-first vi.clean.po vi.old.po > vi.po (should work on UNIX systems, not sure about Windows)
in Blender, use the I18n add-on’s Update Branches (select only Vietnamese to go faster)
open the vi.po file and remove all messages starting with #~ at the end of the file
check that the result is as expected: mostly new translations, but maybe some from the old if they were not found in the new. I don’t speak Vietnamese, but the result looks all right to me because the format and order are exactly the same as the old translations when I look at a diff.
delete vi.old.po, vi.clean.po and vi.new.po
commit.

Here is my result, you can check it and use it if it’s ok for you:

vi.po

And here is an example of what the diff looks like:

If you want to use all the 3.4 translations for 3.3, you can: - go to the vi directory in the translations branches - download the 3.4 ones and rename them to `vi.new.po` - I see that its source comments don’t use the proper format, so delete them, they’ll be recreated later. For example, using sed: `sed -e "s/^# :src:.*//g" vi.new.po > vi.clean.po` - copy the current translations to `vi.old.po` - use the following command: `msgcat --use-first vi.clean.po vi.old.po > vi.po` (should work on UNIX systems, not sure about Windows) - in Blender, use the I18n add-on’s Update Branches (select only Vietnamese to go faster) - open the `vi.po` file and remove all messages starting with `#~ `at the end of the file - check that the result is as expected: mostly new translations, but maybe some from the old if they were not found in the new. I don’t speak Vietnamese, but the result looks all right to me because the format and order are exactly the same as the old translations when I look at a diff. - delete `vi.old.po`, `vi.clean.po` and `vi.new.po` - commit. Here is my result, you can check it and use it if it’s ok for you: [vi.po](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F13430349/vi.po) And here is an example of what the diff looks like: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F13430361/image.png)

Hoang Duy Tran commented

2022-08-30 13:45:13 +02:00

Thank you for your inputs, Damien Picard (pioverfour). I've noticed the strange 'User Comments' types, which is considered 'legacy' as well but I don't have access to the build and extract python scripts from Blender so I cannot check to see if that was right or not. The normal 'locations' format should be in relative paths:

../dir1/dir2/dir3

etc.. Besides, I had ported some changes to the Sphinx code recently to sort the locations out, so after building the code, the final blender.pot should have all 'locations' lines sorted alphabetically and NO DUPLICATIONS, hope that it is the case for our source as well. There is also an error in the 'msgmerge' which join the two location lines together out of blue, even when you do '--no-wrap', which causing comment lines creates changes in the commit, when in fact there are no changes whatsoever. I have voiced my observation to Sphinx project but I don't know if they have taken that into account or not. There is also an error in their code regarding to the pattern matching for 'PYTHON_FORMAT' which wrongly interpreting '20%' as '#python-format'. I told them these observations and I hope they changed the code.

To my observations after messing with po files a few years, I found that comment blocks SHOULD NOT be wrapped in ANY circumstances. They should be kept sorted alphabetically for easy observations, and should be unique. That way, when changes in msgid or msgstr occurs those are highlighted clearly in diff and developers are NOT confused with changes in the comments at all (only physical changes occurred).

Thank you for your inputs, Damien Picard (pioverfour). I've noticed the strange 'User Comments' types, which is considered 'legacy' as well but I don't have access to the build and extract python scripts from Blender so I cannot check to see if that was right or not. The normal 'locations' format should be in relative paths: ``` ../dir1/dir2/dir3 ``` etc.. Besides, I had ported some changes to the Sphinx code recently to sort the locations out, so after building the code, the final blender.pot should have all 'locations' lines sorted alphabetically and NO DUPLICATIONS, hope that it is the case for our source as well. There is also an error in the 'msgmerge' which join the two location lines together out of blue, even when you do '--no-wrap', which causing comment lines creates changes in the commit, when in fact there are no changes whatsoever. I have voiced my observation to Sphinx project but I don't know if they have taken that into account or not. There is also an error in their code regarding to the pattern matching for 'PYTHON_FORMAT' which wrongly interpreting '20%' as '#python-format'. I told them these observations and I hope they changed the code. To my observations after messing with po files a few years, I found that comment blocks SHOULD NOT be wrapped in ANY circumstances. They should be kept sorted alphabetically for easy observations, and should be unique. That way, when changes in msgid or msgstr occurs those are highlighted clearly in diff and developers are NOT confused with changes in the comments at all (only physical changes occurred).

Damien Picard commented

2022-08-30 20:32:59 +02:00

I’m sorry, I don’t think I understand what you mean: the procedure I did is completely unrelated to Sphinx, it’s just about the translation of the interface.

About the --no-wrap issue, I’ve never used msgmerge myself but from a quick testing it looks like this option forces joining multi-line messages.
Without the option, short messages will be joined and long messages will be split.
With the option, both short and long messages will be joined.

In the file I produced, which has the same comments as the .po from the weekly Blender export, the comments are indeed unique, sorted and not wrapped as far as I can tell. Is there an issue here?

I’m sorry, I don’t think I understand what you mean: the procedure I did is completely unrelated to Sphinx, it’s just about the translation of the interface. About the `--no-wrap` issue, I’ve never used `msgmerge` myself but from a quick testing it looks like this option *forces* joining multi-line messages. Without the option, short messages will be joined and long messages will be split. With the option, both short and long messages will be joined. In the file I produced, which has the same comments as the .po from the weekly Blender export, the comments are indeed unique, sorted and not wrapped as far as I can tell. Is there an issue here?

Hoang Duy Tran commented

2022-08-31 00:06:25 +02:00

What happen when you do a comparison between two files? As a developer you only wanted to see if there are changes in the MSGID or MSGSTR, The merge created wrapped lines and thus being marked as a change in the files when there are actually no changes at all, making the comparison very confusing

Hoang Duy Tran commented

2022-09-23 09:43:38 +02:00

This message is to

https://developer.blender.org/p/BlenderNavi/ (Chau(BlenderNavi)

I would like to warn you that in the process of translating the Blender manual, I'm also altering terms in the vi.po file at this page:

https://github.com/hoangduytranuk/blender_ui/tree/main/3x

and they are updated immediately as I changed the definitions or terminology (in Vietnamese translations) from the original text that was there, so please kindly be NOT surprise, and forgive me for having to do this, as I tried to give the best explanation that I could in translation texts, and also keeping terms consistent between manual and UI screen texts. If you are picking translations from me, please be notified that changes could occur during translation process, as you would probably knew this yourself.

I'm sorry for not being able to do a completed unchanged version of vi.po BEFORE jumping into translating the Blender Manual. It's my first time attempting such a big project and I'm very inexperienced.

This message is to https://developer.blender.org/p/BlenderNavi/ (Chau(BlenderNavi) I would like to warn you that in the process of translating the Blender manual, I'm also altering terms in the vi.po file at this page: https://github.com/hoangduytranuk/blender_ui/tree/main/3x and they are updated immediately as I changed the definitions or terminology (in Vietnamese translations) from the original text that was there, so please kindly be NOT surprise, and forgive me for having to do this, as I tried to give the best explanation that I could in translation texts, and also keeping terms consistent between manual and UI screen texts. If you are picking translations from me, please be notified that changes could occur during translation process, as you would probably knew this yourself. I'm sorry for not being able to do a completed unchanged version of vi.po BEFORE jumping into translating the Blender Manual. It's my first time attempting such a big project and I'm very inexperienced.

Bastien Montagne added this to the User Interface project 2023-02-09 15:34:10 +01:00

Bastien Montagne commented

2023-02-21 10:35:15 +01:00

Time to archive this issue I think...

Bastien Montagne closed this issue

2023-02-21 10:35:17 +01:00

Bastien Montagne added

and removed