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Regression: lag from camera view when using mouse scroll #103112

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opened 2022-12-10 20:46:20 +01:00 by Misha · 38 comments
Misha commented 2022-12-10 20:46:20 +01:00
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System Information
Operating system: Windows 10
Graphics card: Nvidia Titan XP

Blender Version
Broken: 3.3.1-3.5
Worked: 3.2
Caused by befe38fe1d

Short description of error
Massive lag in camera view mode with objects about 20 mil triangles when using mouse scroll with view locked to camera even in Solid preview mode. When using Ctrl Alt mouse move seems no lag, scroll works as usual. Only scrolling is not working properly, rotation works nomally.
In this video: Blender 3.3.1, two separate cubes subdivided to level 10, first trying to scroll with mouse wheel - it lags, then using Ctrl Alt Mouse - no lag, then again with mousewheel - lag. No matter if GPU subdivision is on or off.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

**System Information** Operating system: Windows 10 Graphics card: Nvidia Titan XP **Blender Version** Broken: 3.3.1-3.5 Worked: 3.2 Caused by befe38fe1d **Short description of error** Massive lag in camera view mode with objects about 20 mil triangles when using mouse scroll with view locked to camera even in Solid preview mode. When using Ctrl Alt mouse move seems no lag, scroll works as usual. Only scrolling is not working properly, rotation works nomally. In this video: Blender 3.3.1, two separate cubes subdivided to level 10, first trying to scroll with mouse wheel - it lags, then using Ctrl Alt Mouse - no lag, then again with mousewheel - lag. No matter if GPU subdivision is on or off. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** - Open attached .blend file - first trying to scroll with mouse wheel - it lags - using Ctrl Alt Mouse - no lag [Blender Mouse scroll issue.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14052452/Blender_Mouse_scroll_issue.blend) [Lag when in camera view Blender 332.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14050629/Lag_when_in_camera_view_Blender_332.mp4)
Misha self-assigned this 2022-12-10 20:46:20 +01:00
Misha commented 2022-12-10 20:46:20 +01:00
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Added subscriber: @Vir

Added subscriber: @Vir
Misha changed title from Blender 3.3.2 lag from camera view when using mouse scroll to Blender 3.3.1 and 3.4 lag from camera view when using mouse scroll 2022-12-10 20:48:40 +01:00
Misha changed title from Blender 3.3.1 and 3.4 lag from camera view when using mouse scroll to Blender 3.3.1-3.2.2 and 3.4 lag from camera view when using mouse scroll 2022-12-10 21:20:57 +01:00
Raimund Klink commented 2022-12-11 16:37:45 +01:00
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Added subscriber: @Raimund58

Added subscriber: @Raimund58
Raimund Klink commented 2022-12-11 16:37:45 +01:00
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Please upload a simple .blend for the developers to reproduce your exact case.

Please upload a simple .blend for the developers to reproduce your exact case.
Evan Wilson commented 2022-12-11 16:40:55 +01:00
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Added subscriber: @EAW

Added subscriber: @EAW
Misha was unassigned by Evan Wilson 2022-12-11 16:40:55 +01:00
Evan Wilson commented 2022-12-11 16:40:55 +01:00
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Please only assign tasks to yourself if you plan on fixing the issue.

Please only assign tasks to yourself if you plan on fixing the issue.
Germano Cavalcante changed title from Blender 3.3.1-3.2.2 and 3.4 lag from camera view when using mouse scroll to lag from camera view when using mouse scroll 2022-12-13 18:44:18 +01:00
Germano Cavalcante commented 2022-12-13 19:08:45 +01:00
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Added subscriber: @mano-wii

Added subscriber: @mano-wii
Germano Cavalcante commented 2022-12-13 19:08:45 +01:00
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Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs User Info'

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs User Info'
Germano Cavalcante commented 2022-12-13 19:08:45 +01:00
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I can't replicate the problem.
Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far.

Try enabling Auto Depth in preferences:
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html

I can't replicate the problem. Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far. Try enabling `Auto Depth` in preferences: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html
Misha commented 2022-12-14 06:32:07 +01:00
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In #103112#1459772, @mano-wii wrote:
I can't replicate the problem.
Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far.

Try enabling Auto Depth in preferences:
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html

Auto-Depth is always enabled, same in this particular case.

> In #103112#1459772, @mano-wii wrote: > I can't replicate the problem. > Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far. > > Try enabling `Auto Depth` in preferences: > https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html Auto-Depth is always enabled, same in this particular case.
Misha commented 2022-12-14 06:38:05 +01:00
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In #103112#1459772, @mano-wii wrote:
I can't replicate the problem.
Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far.

Try enabling Auto Depth in preferences:
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html

I made a clean install without any addons - the described lag is still there. The object is 5.6 mil vertices - not the biggest.

> In #103112#1459772, @mano-wii wrote: > I can't replicate the problem. > Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far. > > Try enabling `Auto Depth` in preferences: > https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html I made a clean install without any addons - the described lag is still there. The object is 5.6 mil vertices - not the biggest.
Misha commented 2022-12-14 06:57:41 +01:00
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In #103112#1459772, @mano-wii wrote:
I can't replicate the problem.
Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far.

Try enabling Auto Depth in preferences:
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html

I tried the cube - Subdivision surf. modificator level 11 - when not applied lag is much less, when applied - great lag. The GPU subdivision for viewport does not matter, on or off - same.

> In #103112#1459772, @mano-wii wrote: > I can't replicate the problem. > Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far. > > Try enabling `Auto Depth` in preferences: > https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html I tried the cube - Subdivision surf. modificator level 11 - when not applied lag is much less, when applied - great lag. The GPU subdivision for viewport does not matter, on or off - same.
Misha commented 2022-12-14 07:11:01 +01:00
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In #103112#1459772, @mano-wii wrote:
I can't replicate the problem.
Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far.

Try enabling Auto Depth in preferences:
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html

Blender Zoom lag 2.mp4

> In #103112#1459772, @mano-wii wrote: > I can't replicate the problem. > Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far. > > Try enabling `Auto Depth` in preferences: > https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html [Blender Zoom lag 2.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14056729/Blender_Zoom_lag_2.mp4)
Germano Cavalcante commented 2022-12-14 13:18:13 +01:00
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Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Needs Triage'

Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Needs Triage'
Raimund Klink commented 2022-12-14 15:08:59 +01:00
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I can reproduce the issue with the provided .blend.

  1. Open .blend, zoom and no lag
  2. Apply Modifier, zoom and significant lag
    Smooth experience with Ctrl zoom.

Win 11, GTX 1080, Blender 3.4

I can reproduce the issue with the provided .blend. 1. Open .blend, zoom and no lag 2. Apply Modifier, zoom and significant lag Smooth experience with Ctrl zoom. Win 11, GTX 1080, Blender 3.4
Pratik Borhade commented 2022-12-15 10:21:42 +01:00
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Added subscriber: @PratikPB2123

Added subscriber: @PratikPB2123
Pratik Borhade commented 2022-12-15 10:21:43 +01:00
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Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'
Pratik Borhade commented 2022-12-15 10:21:43 +01:00
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I can confirm too. Disabling global undo solves the problem.
Perhaps caused by befe38fe1d

I can confirm too. Disabling global undo solves the problem. Perhaps caused by befe38fe1d
Pratik Borhade changed title from lag from camera view when using mouse scroll to Regression: lag from camera view when using mouse scroll 2022-12-15 10:33:17 +01:00
Pratik Borhade commented 2022-12-15 10:34:09 +01:00
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Added subscriber: @ideasman42

Added subscriber: @ideasman42
Pratik Borhade commented 2022-12-15 10:34:09 +01:00
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@ideasman42 any idea how to avoid this lag?
Or maybe we can just remove the undo push for zoom operation
I'll raise the priority as per triaging policy

@ideasman42 any idea how to avoid this lag? Or maybe we can just remove the undo push for zoom operation I'll raise the priority as per triaging policy
Vladimir commented 2022-12-17 06:18:54 +01:00
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Added subscriber: @Wovchick

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Vladimir commented 2022-12-17 06:22:23 +01:00
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In #103112#1459772, @mano-wii wrote:
I can't replicate the problem.
Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far.

Try enabling Auto Depth in preferences:
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html

Thanks! Now zoom is smoothie

> In #103112#1459772, @mano-wii wrote: > I can't replicate the problem. > Maybe what you are facing is not a lag. Maybe it's the zoom jumps that are too far. > > Try enabling `Auto Depth` in preferences: > https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/navigation.html Thanks! Now zoom is smoothie
Campbell Barton commented 2022-12-17 07:12:06 +01:00
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@PratikPB2123 short term could be not to use undo pushes for mouse-wheel navigation. (not ideal but at least avoids the problem).

Further there are a few possible solutions, all are much more involved though:

Improve Undo Performance

Instead of trying to avoid performing undo pushes on small changes, we could check on ways that moving a single object can perform an undo push much faster then it is currently.

Modal Operator

We could investigate having mouse-wheel / NDOF navigation start a modal operator, that exists and adds an undo push when any event that would run another operator is passed in.

Undo Grouping

We could improve grouped undo support, where the actual undo push (which can be slow), is deferred so the performance cost would only occur on the last mouse wheel step.

In general, improving the performance of undo pushes on small operations would be ideal in this case.

Although there could still be a case for modal operators.
Currently NDOF event's don't perform an undo push because unlike mouse wheel events - they are closer to cursor motion, where many events may be handled a second. So performing undo pushes for every event (even with optimized undo) isn't practical.

So for this case, it could still be worth investigating using a model operator that can handle undoing when other actions run.

@PratikPB2123 short term could be not to use undo pushes for mouse-wheel navigation. (not ideal but at least avoids the problem). Further there are a few possible solutions, all are much more involved though: ### Improve Undo Performance Instead of trying to avoid performing undo pushes on small changes, we could check on ways that moving a single object can perform an undo push much faster then it is currently. ### Modal Operator We could investigate having mouse-wheel / NDOF navigation start a modal operator, that exists and adds an undo push when any event that would run another operator is passed in. ### Undo Grouping We could improve grouped undo support, where the actual undo push (which can be slow), is deferred so the performance cost would only occur on the last mouse wheel step. ---- In general, improving the performance of undo pushes on small operations would be ideal in this case. Although there could still be a case for modal operators. Currently NDOF event's don't perform an undo push because unlike mouse wheel events - they are closer to cursor motion, where many events may be handled a second. So performing undo pushes for every event (even with optimized undo) isn't practical. So for this case, it could still be worth investigating using a model operator that can handle undoing when other actions run.
Jeroen Bakker commented 2023-01-12 11:22:05 +01:00
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Added subscriber: @Jeroen-Bakker

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Jeroen Bakker commented 2023-01-12 11:22:05 +01:00
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Lowering the priority as it is mentioned in the original change (VIEW3D_OT_zoom will be part of the undo stack). Campbell has provided some areas where to improve, but is not something that can be considered as a bug-fix, more normal development and should be picked up as a project.

Lowering the priority as it is mentioned in the original change (VIEW3D_OT_zoom will be part of the undo stack). Campbell has provided some areas where to improve, but is not something that can be considered as a bug-fix, more normal development and should be picked up as a project.
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Bastien Montagne removed this from the Core project 2023-02-09 18:20:29 +01:00
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mxch commented 2024-02-29 14:31:41 +01:00
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Lowering the priority as it is mentioned in the original change (VIEW3D_OT_zoom will be part of the undo stack). Campbell has provided some areas where to improve, but is not something that can be considered as a bug-fix, more normal development and should be picked up as a project.

It's been a year since the promise for this issue to be fixed has been made but blender 4.0 still suffer with Global undo + Camera to view BOTH ENABLED on big scenes

> Lowering the priority as it is mentioned in the original change (VIEW3D_OT_zoom will be part of the undo stack). Campbell has provided some areas where to improve, but is not something that can be considered as a bug-fix, more normal development and should be picked up as a project. > It's been a year since the promise for this issue to be fixed has been made but blender 4.0 still suffer with Global undo + Camera to view BOTH ENABLED on big scenes
mxch commented 2024-02-29 14:38:20 +01:00
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@Vir @Raimund58 @EAW @mano-wii @PratikPB2123 @Wovchick @Jeroen-Bakker @ideasman42

Here is the link Performance comparison between BLENDER 3.2 with GLOBAL UNDO ENABLED + CAMERA TO VIEW and BLENDER 3.3 Same settings. Why this issue has not been resolved two years after the report?

https://imgur.com/a/9XobZAo

I reported this bug again but how hard it is to bring back the same performance as blender had in 3.2
#118877
this issue started occurring after blender-3.3.0-alpha+master-D15274.ac735c928db2

@Vir @Raimund58 @EAW @mano-wii @PratikPB2123 @Wovchick @Jeroen-Bakker @ideasman42 ### Here is the link Performance comparison between BLENDER 3.2 with GLOBAL UNDO ENABLED + CAMERA TO VIEW and BLENDER 3.3 Same settings. Why this issue has not been resolved two years after the report? https://imgur.com/a/9XobZAo **I reported this bug again but how hard it is to bring back the same performance as blender had in 3.2** https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/issues/118877 this issue started occurring after blender-3.3.0-alpha+master-D15274.ac735c928db2
mxch commented 2024-03-01 15:10:16 +01:00
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@PratikPB2123 This issue started occurring since Blender 3.3 (I have blender-3.3.0-alpha+master-D15274.ac735c928db2-windows.amd64-release that was working fine but it gives me an error after reinstalling the windows the application has failed to start side-by-side configuration ) so is there timeframe when this issue might get resolved?

@PratikPB2123 This issue started occurring since Blender 3.3 (I have blender-3.3.0-alpha+master-D15274.ac735c928db2-windows.amd64-release that was working fine but it gives me an error after reinstalling the windows the application has failed to start side-by-side configuration ) so is there timeframe when this issue might get resolved?
Raimund Klink commented 2024-03-01 15:42:33 +01:00
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@mxch Please try a more recent Blender version. From Blender 3.6 and up I can no longer reproduce the lag.

@mxch Please try a more recent Blender version. From Blender 3.6 and up I can no longer reproduce the lag.
mxch commented 2024-03-01 17:21:59 +01:00
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@mxch Please try a more recent Blender version. From Blender 3.6 and up I can no longer reproduce the lag.

This issue still occurs but with big scenes, even if everything is disabled in viewport . Camera to View + Global Undo with big scenes causes delay lag and eventually freezing of the system

> @mxch Please try a more recent Blender version. From Blender 3.6 and up I can no longer reproduce the lag. This issue still occurs but with big scenes, even if everything is disabled in viewport . Camera to View + Global Undo with big scenes causes delay lag and eventually freezing of the system
Raimund Klink commented 2024-03-01 17:45:28 +01:00
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Okay, but with the provided test .blend I can no longer reproduce it.

Okay, but with the provided test .blend I can no longer reproduce it.
mxch commented 2024-03-01 19:15:45 +01:00
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Okay, but with the provided test .blend I can no longer reproduce it.

How To Reproduce Issue (it only occurs with large files now (1-2 GB and more)with blender 3.3 and later - I tested with blender 4.0)

1.open Blender Mouse scroll issue.blend file attached to this issue thread.
2.create UV sphere (shift+a > mesh )
3. go to edit mode and subdivide the mesh couple of times
4. add Array Modifier to the sphere 50 times and apply the modifier so file size grows.
5.copy paste uv sphare row after applying array modifier five-ten times, file reaches to 3GB and even if you disable everything in viewport camera still lags when Global Undo and Camera to view is activated especially panning multiple times by pressing middle mouse button

> Okay, but with the provided test .blend I can no longer reproduce it. ### How To Reproduce Issue (it only occurs with large files now (1-2 GB and more)with blender 3.3 and later - I tested with blender 4.0) 1.open **Blender Mouse scroll issue.blend** file attached to this issue thread. 2.create UV sphere (shift+a > mesh ) 3. go to edit mode and subdivide the mesh couple of times 4. add Array Modifier to the sphere 50 times and apply the modifier so file size grows. 5.copy paste uv sphare row after applying array modifier five-ten times, file reaches to 3GB and even if you disable everything in viewport camera still lags when Global Undo and Camera to view is activated especially panning multiple times by pressing middle mouse button
image_2024-03-01_221500053.png
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image_2024-03-01_221500053.png
Jeroen Bakker commented 2024-03-02 09:22:11 +01:00
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It's been a year since the promise for this issue to be fixed has been made but blender 4.0 still suffer with Global undo + Camera to view BOTH ENABLED on big scenes

We mentioned that this could not be categorized as a bug fix, but requires a project to fix it. A project requires resources, priority and time. The state 'Known Issue' reflects the correct state for issues.

> It's been a year since the promise for this issue to be fixed has been made but blender 4.0 still suffer with Global undo + Camera to view BOTH ENABLED on big scenes We mentioned that this could not be categorized as a bug fix, but requires a project to fix it. A project requires resources, priority and time. The state 'Known Issue' reflects the correct state for issues.
mxch commented 2024-03-02 12:53:14 +01:00
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It's been a year since the promise for this issue to be fixed has been made but blender 4.0 still suffer with Global undo + Camera to view BOTH ENABLED on big scenes

We mentioned that this could not be categorized as a bug fix, but requires a project to fix it. A project requires resources, priority and time. The state 'Known Issue' reflects the correct state for issues.

So there won't be any fix even for Blender 4.2 LTS?
I have no idea why it's so hard to fix this issue everything worked fine in blender 3.2 ,
even blender-3.3.0-alpha+master-D15274.ac735c928db2

> > > It's been a year since the promise for this issue to be fixed has been made but blender 4.0 still suffer with Global undo + Camera to view BOTH ENABLED on big scenes > > We mentioned that this could not be categorized as a bug fix, but requires a project to fix it. A project requires resources, priority and time. The state 'Known Issue' reflects the correct state for issues. So there won't be any fix even for Blender 4.2 LTS? I have no idea why it's so hard to fix this issue everything worked fine in blender 3.2 , even blender-3.3.0-alpha+master-D15274.ac735c928db2
Campbell Barton commented 2024-03-07 10:10:51 +01:00
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@mxch could you check to see if this is still a problem in a recent daily build?
0e8e219d71 may have improved performance enough that this issue can be closed.

I can't tell if it makes a user visible improvement as I can't redo the bug on my system with 4.0 or a recent daily build.

@mxch could you check to see if this is still a problem in a recent daily build? 0e8e219d71cd27cf025a9920ac4fb54ff7c178b3 may have improved performance enough that this issue can be closed. I can't tell if it makes a user visible improvement as I can't redo the bug on my system with 4.0 or a recent daily build.
mxch commented 2024-03-07 13:36:09 +01:00
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@mxch could you check to see if this is still a problem in a recent daily build?
0e8e219d71 may have improved performance enough that this issue can be closed.

I can't tell if it makes a user visible improvement as I can't redo the bug on my system with 4.0 or a recent daily build.

@ideasman42 You mean daily build Blender 4.1.0 Beta - d196046a3a - SHA - 07 Mar 03:23

The problem is still present in it, only way files greater than 1GB not lagging with camera to view activated is disabling GLOBAL UNDO
I don't know what changed since the release of Blender 3.2 but Blender 3.3 can't handle big files (or lag is way more noticeable in bigger files ) but I have the copy of blender-3.3.0-alpha+master-D15274.ac735c928db2-windows.amd64-release that didn't suffer with this issue, it's not archived in repository so if you need to look at it I can send

Edit: are you sure daily build has been released? I couldn't find any builds with the tittle "0e8e219d71"

> @mxch could you check to see if this is still a problem in a recent daily build? > 0e8e219d71cd27cf025a9920ac4fb54ff7c178b3 may have improved performance enough that this issue can be closed. > > I can't tell if it makes a user visible improvement as I can't redo the bug on my system with 4.0 or a recent daily build. @ideasman42 You mean daily build Blender **4.1.0 Beta - d196046a3a2e - SHA - 07 Mar 03:23** The problem is still present in it, only way files greater than 1GB not lagging with camera to view activated is disabling GLOBAL UNDO I don't know what changed since the release of Blender 3.2 but Blender 3.3 can't handle big files (or lag is way more noticeable in bigger files ) but I have the copy of **blender-3.3.0-alpha+master-D15274.ac735c928db2-windows.amd64-release** that didn't suffer with this issue, it's not archived in repository so if you need to look at it I can send Edit: are you sure daily build has been released? I couldn't find any builds with the tittle "0e8e219d71"
Campbell Barton commented 2024-03-07 22:45:28 +01:00
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@mxch please check 4.2 alpha, 4.1 doesn't include this change.

@mxch please check 4.2 alpha, 4.1 doesn't include this change.
mxch commented 2024-03-08 11:21:27 +01:00
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@mxch please check 4.2 alpha, 4.1 doesn't include this change.

Blender 4.2.0-Alpha-d31ff88af7ee-SHA-06-Mar has significantly improved performance of blender VIEWPORT while GLOBAL UNDO and CAMERA TO VIEW are both enabled for Big Projects, I would ask this issue not to be closed as resolved since there's still tiny lag while dragging using shift + middle mouse wheel , compared to dragging while Global Undo is disabled

> @mxch please check 4.2 alpha, 4.1 doesn't include this change. Blender 4.2.0-Alpha-d31ff88af7ee-SHA-06-Mar has significantly improved performance of blender VIEWPORT while GLOBAL UNDO and CAMERA TO VIEW are both enabled for Big Projects, I would ask this issue not to be closed as resolved since there's still tiny lag while dragging using shift + middle mouse wheel , compared to dragging while Global Undo is disabled
mxch commented 2024-04-25 17:38:28 +02:00
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Years and months has passed will this issue be resolved for Blener 4.2 @ideasman42 @mano-wii @Jeroen-Bakker @Raimund58

Years and months has passed will this issue be resolved for Blener 4.2 @ideasman42 @mano-wii @Jeroen-Bakker @Raimund58
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