Dimensions panel misbehavior #106695

New Issue

atika10 · 2023-04-07T23:09:08+02:00

atika10 commented

2023-04-07 23:09:08 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: W10
Graphics card: 3070

Blender Version
Broken: 3.5, 3.4 ,3.3 etc...
Worked: 2.79b

Short description of error

Bug appers if Unit system set from "None" to any other.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Based on the default startup or an attached .blend file (as simple as possible).

1: Open blender.

2: Select cube.

3: Go dimensions panel.

4: Modify any dimensions to not round number, and above 1meter. For example, 1234mm. Will show 1.23m. Set 1236mm, will show 1.24m. This happen if Units are Adaptive, Kilometers, Meters, Centimeters.

This bug happened once, long time ago, before 2.79b, that time (after bug report), they mend it. I hope they fix it this time too. :)

Happy blending! :)

**System Information** Operating system: W10 Graphics card: 3070 **Blender Version** Broken: 3.5, 3.4 ,3.3 etc... Worked: 2.79b **Short description of error** Bug appers if **Unit system** set from "**None**" to **any other**. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Based on the default startup or an attached .blend file (as simple as possible). 1: Open blender. 2: Select *cube*. 3: Go *dimensions* panel. 4: Modify any dimensions to not round number, and above 1meter. For example, *1234mm*. Will show 1.23m. Set *1236mm*, will show 1.24m. This happen if **Units** are **Adaptive**, **Kilometers**, **Meters**, **Centimeters**. This bug happened once, long time ago, before 2.79b, that time (after bug report), they mend it. I hope they fix it this time too. :) Happy blending! :)

atika10 added the

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Harley Acheson commented

2023-04-08 00:09:22 +02:00

There are two different kinds of rounding involved here.

The first is just that Blender does not always show you the entire number even though it is using the entire thing. You can see this by entering 1.23456 in one of the dimensions. It will show as "1.23" in the input box. But click again to edit the value and you will see that it is storing the entire 1.23456. So it is using the value you entered, not the shorter value being displayed.

The other kind of rounding that can come into play is the maximum precision of 32-bit floating point numbers. They can only differentiate between numbers with a precision of 6-7 digits in total. So if your numbers are close to 1 you can have a number that is 1.00001 and a different one that is 1.00002. But as the numbers get larger you lose decimal digits so you can't have 10000.21 for example as it would only use 10000.2

There are two different kinds of rounding involved here. The first is just that Blender does not always show you the entire number even though it is using the entire thing. You can see this by entering `1.23456` in one of the dimensions. It will show as "1.23" in the input box. But click again to edit the value and you will see that it is storing the entire `1.23456`. So it is using the value you entered, not the shorter value being displayed. The other kind of rounding that can come into play is the maximum precision of 32-bit floating point numbers. They can only differentiate between numbers with a precision of 6-7 digits in total. So if your numbers are close to 1 you can have a number that is 1.00001 and a different one that is 1.00002. But as the numbers get larger you lose decimal digits so you can't have 10000.21 for example as it would only use 10000.2

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labels 2023-04-08 00:19:18 +02:00

atika10 commented

2023-04-08 09:09:19 +02:00

Yes, click in the box will show the real number.
But that not help when someone working. No one want to check every seconds if proper value showed.
Plus, as i wrote, this thing worked perfectly in earlier blender. Plus, as i wrote this was a bug once,* they fixed it then*, and now here we are again. (Unfortunately im unable to find that old bugreport)

I saw this in other versions, from 2.8, thats one of the many reasons i didnt jumped on new versions after 2.79b, i was waiting for this will be fixed. But now im forced to use new version, because impossible to make working cuda render with 3070 in 2.79b. :(

Im sure they can fixing again.

Edit*
I checked, if use millimeter units, and for example, put 112.6 mm, panel will show 113mm. If someone make a manufacturing(production) plan, its important to see in one look what value is that object. I hope developers understand why this problem is important.

Of course if i can help anything to resolve this, i will help with great plesure!

Until that, have a very happy weekend (and holiday, if) everybody!

Yes, click in the box will show the real number. But that not help when someone working. No one want to check every seconds if proper value showed. Plus, *as i wrote*, this thing *worked perfectly* in *earlier blender*. Plus, *as i wrote this was a bug once*,* they fixed it then*, and now here we are again. (Unfortunately im unable to find that old bugreport) I saw this in other versions, from 2.8, thats one of the many reasons i didnt jumped on new versions after 2.79b, i was waiting for this will be fixed. But now im forced to use new version, because impossible to make working cuda render with 3070 in 2.79b. :( Im sure they can fixing again. Edit* I checked, if use millimeter units, and for example, put 112.6 mm, panel will show 113mm. If someone make a manufacturing(production) plan, its important to see in one look what value is that object. I hope developers understand why this problem is important. **Of course if i can help anything to resolve this, i will help with great plesure!** Until that, have a very happy weekend (and holiday, if) everybody!

atika10 commented

2023-04-09 16:09:50 +02:00

I made gifs about bug, so you dont need reproduce the error, especially dont need to dig up old blender, i know some people doesnt like her. :)

One is in blender 2.79b which is the proper behavior, and the second is the bug in the newest version.

I made gifs about bug, so you dont need reproduce the error, especially dont need to dig up old blender, i know some people doesnt like her. :) One is in blender 2.79b which is the proper behavior, and the second is the bug in the newest version.

279b_proper_blender_dimensions.gif

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atika10 closed this issue

2023-04-09 16:09:52 +02:00

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atika10 reopened this issue

2023-04-09 16:11:39 +02:00

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atika10 commented

2023-04-09 16:12:19 +02:00

Sorry, i accidentaly closed the report.

atika10 commented

2023-04-09 16:42:22 +02:00

I made another gif this is from an actual manufaturing plan.

Fortunately, this production schedule made in earlier blender which is shows properly the values.

These are furnitures, and every single workpiece made in the plan, and every piece getting manualy inscribed into the cutting diagram, piece by piece, by select an object, and read the value fom the unit window. (This planning method provides the highest possible accuracy in not-mass ,small-scale unique furniture manufacturing.) It would be hard working/time to go into the unit window and check the actual value piece by piece.

Thank you again your help!

I made another gif this is from an actual manufaturing plan. Fortunately, this production schedule made in earlier blender which is shows properly the values. These are furnitures, and every single workpiece made in the plan, and every piece getting manualy inscribed into the cutting diagram, piece by piece, by select an object, and read the value fom the unit window. (This planning method provides the highest possible accuracy in not-mass ,small-scale unique furniture manufacturing.) It would be hard working/time to go into the unit window and check the actual value piece by piece. Thank you again your help!

bugcancauseseriousfinancialdamage.gif

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Harley Acheson commented

2023-04-10 19:39:31 +02:00

One is in blender 2.79b which is the proper behavior, and the second is the bug in the newest version.

Blender 2.79b's behavior for this gave us far more bug reports. This is because it always showed a fixed number of decimal places: 5.

This works as users expect for numbers close to 1. Enter "1.23456789" and it would show "1.23457" and that is also the underlying number it would use. Make sense.

But enter 123.456789 and it would show as "123.45679". Click to edit it and see that it is actually using "123.457". Exit out of editing and it now displays "123.45700" because it shows five decimal places even though that is beyond the precision of 32-bit floats.

This caused lots of bug reports that Blender would show and use 5 decimal places for some numbers but not for others, with us having to explain to everyone how float precision works. That is the reason for the change afterward.

I'm afraid asking for Blender to change back to behavior from long ago does not fit within our definition of a bug. So closing this.

> One is in blender 2.79b which is the proper behavior, and the second is the bug in the newest version. Blender 2.79b's behavior for this gave us far more bug reports. This is because it always showed a fixed number of decimal places: 5. This works as users expect for numbers close to 1. Enter "1.23456789" and it would show "1.23457" and that is also the underlying number it would use. Make sense. But enter 123.456789 and it would show as "123.45679". Click to edit it and see that it is actually using "123.457". Exit out of editing and it now displays "123.45700" because it shows five decimal places even though that is beyond the precision of 32-bit floats. This caused lots of bug reports that Blender would show and use 5 decimal places for some numbers but not for others, with us having to explain to everyone how float precision works. That is the reason for the change afterward. I'm afraid asking for Blender to change back to behavior from long ago does not fit within our definition of a bug. So closing this.

Harley Acheson closed this issue

2023-04-10 19:39:33 +02:00

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labels 2023-04-10 19:39:34 +02:00

atika10 commented

2023-04-10 22:35:29 +02:00

One is in blender 2.79b which is the proper behavior, and the second is the bug in the newest version.

Blender 2.79b's behavior for this gave us far more bug reports. This is because it always showed a fixed number of decimal places: 5.

This works as users expect for numbers close to 1. Enter "1.23456789" and it would show "1.23457" and that is also the underlying number it would use. Make sense.

But enter 123.456789 and it would show as "123.45679". Click to edit it and see that it is actually using "123.457". Exit out of editing and it now displays "123.45700" because it shows five decimal places even though that is beyond the precision of 32-bit floats.

This caused lots of bug reports that Blender would show and use 5 decimal places for some numbers but not for others, with us having to explain to everyone how float precision works. That is the reason for the change afterward.

I'm afraid asking for Blender to change back to behavior from long ago does not fit within our definition of a bug. So closing this.

I never talked about float precision, i talked about a panel, where should be show value as expected. This is not a floating point thing, this is a setup thing, what is should be adjustable, and worked earlier from past. But i understand what this is.

So im asking, what money should i pay to make this happen?

> > One is in blender 2.79b which is the proper behavior, and the second is the bug in the newest version. > > Blender 2.79b's behavior for this gave us far more bug reports. This is because it always showed a fixed number of decimal places: 5. > > This works as users expect for numbers close to 1. Enter "1.23456789" and it would show "1.23457" and that is also the underlying number it would use. Make sense. > > But enter 123.456789 and it would show as "123.45679". Click to edit it and see that it is actually using "123.457". Exit out of editing and it now displays "123.45700" because it shows five decimal places even though that is beyond the precision of 32-bit floats. > > This caused lots of bug reports that Blender would show and use 5 decimal places for some numbers but not for others, with us having to explain to everyone how float precision works. That is the reason for the change afterward. > > I'm afraid asking for Blender to change back to behavior from long ago does not fit within our definition of a bug. So closing this. > > > > I never talked about float precision, i talked about a panel, where should be show value as expected. This is not a floating point thing, this is a setup thing, what is should be adjustable, and worked earlier from past. But i understand what this is. So im asking, what money should i pay to make this happen?

atika10 reopened this issue

2023-04-10 22:35:31 +02:00

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labels 2023-04-10 22:35:32 +02:00

Harley Acheson commented

2023-04-10 22:39:22 +02:00

I never talked about float precision...

Yet this problem is very much about float precision, as previously mentioned.

So im asking, what money should i pay to make this happen?

This is not the place for this. Consider making a well thought-out proposal on Right Click select for this request.

> I never talked about float precision... Yet this problem is very much about float precision, as previously mentioned. > So im asking, what money should i pay to make this happen? This is not the place for this. Consider making a well thought-out proposal on [Right Click select](https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/?sorting=hot) for this request.

Harley Acheson closed this issue

2023-04-10 22:39:23 +02:00

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atika10 commented

2023-04-10 22:59:28 +02:00

I never talked about float precision...

Yet this problem is very much about float precision, as previously mentioned.

So im asking, what money should i pay to make this happen?

This is not the place for this. Consider making a well thought-out proposal on Right Click select for this request.

If you select the "none" unit, it can show 3 decimals, which is enough to automotive parts planning too. Nothing much to do, only let the metric panle to show three decimals, as can show in "none" setting. Thats why i say i dont talk about float precision , this is a user interface thing.

Please let me talk about someone else, someone who understand what im talking about.

Everything is okay with you, i like you, you doing a good yoob, but you clearly dont see how engineering design works. Please connect me to an engineering minded developer, who will understand inmediately what is this.

Maybe this is something what i can modify in my own blender, if someone tell me where and what.

Thank you!

> > I never talked about float precision... > > Yet this problem is very much about float precision, as previously mentioned. > > > > So im asking, what money should i pay to make this happen? > > This is not the place for this. Consider making a well thought-out proposal on [Right Click select](https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/?sorting=hot) for this request. > > If you select the "none" unit, it can show 3 decimals, which is enough to automotive parts planning too. Nothing much to do, only let the metric panle to show three decimals, as can show in "none" setting. Thats why i say i dont talk about float precision , this is a user interface thing. Please let me talk about someone else, someone who understand what im talking about. Everything is okay with you, i like you, you doing a good yoob, but you clearly dont see how engineering design works. Please connect me to an engineering minded developer, who will understand inmediately what is this. Maybe this is something what i can modify in my own blender, if someone tell me where and what. Thank you!

atika10 reopened this issue

2023-04-10 22:59:30 +02:00

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Germano Cavalcante commented

2023-04-11 17:44:15 +02:00

Precision is defined in the property. (See https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/blame/branch/main/source/blender/makesrna/intern/rna_object.c#L3319)

In the case of "scale" the defined precision is a maximum of 3 digits before the period (reduced by the number of digits before the period unless it is 0).

Perhaps this is reminiscent of old code, but when no units are set, the precision value set for all these widget types is ignored and defaults to 6 (as seen in the UI_PRECISION_FLOAT_MAX macro). (See https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/blame/branch/main/source/blender/editors/interface/interface.cc#L2908-L2939)

So to change this behavior we would need to define a plan that involves:

Make non-unit respect the precision defined in the property and/or
Change the precision in the "scale" property (to maybe 4 instead of 3).

There is nothing in the code indicating that this difference (unit vs non-unit) is unintentional. Anyway, this is something that has become usable and standard and therefore not necessarily considered a bug.

So, unless it's a design already discussed and you intend to work on it, this is a discussion that shouldn't be addressed in a bug report.

For user requests and feedback, we have other channels: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

Precision is defined in the property. (See https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/blame/branch/main/source/blender/makesrna/intern/rna_object.c#L3319) In the case of "scale" the defined precision is a maximum of `3` digits before the period (reduced by the number of digits before the period unless it is 0). Perhaps this is reminiscent of old code, but when no units are set, the precision value set for all these widget types is ignored and defaults to 6 (as seen in the `UI_PRECISION_FLOAT_MAX` macro). (See https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/blame/branch/main/source/blender/editors/interface/interface.cc#L2908-L2939) So to change this behavior we would need to define a plan that involves: - Make non-unit respect the precision defined in the property and/or - Change the precision in the "scale" property (to maybe 4 instead of 3). There is nothing in the code indicating that this difference (unit vs non-unit) is unintentional. Anyway, this is something that has become usable and standard and therefore not necessarily considered a bug. So, unless it's a design already discussed and you intend to work on it, this is a discussion that shouldn't be addressed in a bug report. For user requests and feedback, we have other channels: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

Germano Cavalcante closed this issue

2023-04-11 17:44:17 +02:00

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atika10 commented

2023-04-12 04:43:47 +02:00

Precision is defined in the property. (See https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/blame/branch/main/source/blender/makesrna/intern/rna_object.c#L3319)

In the case of "scale" the defined precision is a maximum of 3 digits before the period (reduced by the number of digits before the period unless it is 0).

Perhaps this is reminiscent of old code, but when no units are set, the precision value set for all these widget types is ignored and defaults to 6 (as seen in the UI_PRECISION_FLOAT_MAX macro). (See https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/blame/branch/main/source/blender/editors/interface/interface.cc#L2908-L2939)

So to change this behavior we would need to define a plan that involves:

Make non-unit respect the precision defined in the property and/or

Change the precision in the "scale" property (to maybe 4 instead of 3).

There is nothing in the code indicating that this difference (unit vs non-unit) is unintentional. Anyway, this is something that has become usable and standard and therefore not necessarily considered a bug.

So, unless it's a design already discussed and you intend to work on it, this is a discussion that shouldn't be addressed in a bug report.

For user requests and feedback, we have other channels: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

Hello!

Thank you your answer!

Maybe i wasnt clear, and im sorry, i have not enough good english.

So.

The scale system is working as it should be, make possible the precise work.

Precise work means in carpentry 1 decimal in cm-s lets say 123.4cm.

In automitve parts, that maybe 12.34mm or more, but injectors doesnt planned in blender, i think.

So again this works well. Unit scale is good.

The bug is, the panel doesnt show the the user definied size, only if user click in.

Again, the unit system is working good. If you set a specific value for an object, the object size will be precisely the value as set. This is good and working good.
Also, on the grid you see its perfect size.

But you cant see the object real value until click into the panel.

Maybe i was wrong with the bugreport title. Not a dimensions bug, its a UI bug.

This worked well like 10 years. (Im using blender from 2009)

I think 3d worker should see one look the value that was set earlier, because enormous amount of work to check every object one by one by click into the panel. And unnecessery.

Thins thing worked normaly earlier, and works well in other program (3dsmax, etc).

Current status definitely not usable and shouldnt be standard, unless Blender Foundation doesnt wants the industry use blender.

(Blender comminity doesnt allow sign ups currently, so i cant say there nothing.)

> Precision is defined in the property. (See https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/blame/branch/main/source/blender/makesrna/intern/rna_object.c#L3319) > > In the case of "scale" the defined precision is a maximum of `3` digits before the period (reduced by the number of digits before the period unless it is 0). > > Perhaps this is reminiscent of old code, but when no units are set, the precision value set for all these widget types is ignored and defaults to 6 (as seen in the `UI_PRECISION_FLOAT_MAX` macro). (See https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/blame/branch/main/source/blender/editors/interface/interface.cc#L2908-L2939) > > So to change this behavior we would need to define a plan that involves: > - Make non-unit respect the precision defined in the property and/or > - Change the precision in the "scale" property (to maybe 4 instead of 3). > > There is nothing in the code indicating that this difference (unit vs non-unit) is unintentional. Anyway, this is something that has become usable and standard and therefore not necessarily considered a bug. > > So, unless it's a design already discussed and you intend to work on it, this is a discussion that shouldn't be addressed in a bug report. > > For user requests and feedback, we have other channels: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests Hello! Thank you your answer! Maybe i wasnt clear, and im sorry, i have not enough good english. So. **The scale system is working as it should be, make possible the precise work**. Precise work means in carpentry 1 decimal in cm-s lets say 123.4cm. In automitve parts, that maybe 12.34mm or more, but injectors doesnt planned in blender, i think. So again this works well. **Unit scale is good**. The bug is, the panel doesnt show the the user definied size, only if user click in. Again, the **unit system is working good**. If you set a specific value for an object, the object size will be precisely the value as set. This is good and working good. Also, on the grid you see its perfect size. But you cant see the object real value until click into the panel. Maybe i was wrong with the bugreport title. Not a dimensions bug, its a UI bug. This worked well like 10 years. (Im using blender from 2009) I think 3d worker should see one look the value that was set earlier, because enormous amount of work to check every object one by one by click into the panel. And unnecessery. Thins thing worked normaly earlier, and works well in other program (3dsmax, etc). Current status definitely not usable and shouldnt be standard, unless Blender Foundation doesnt wants the industry use blender. *(Blender comminity doesnt allow sign ups currently, so i cant say there nothing.)*

atika10 reopened this issue

2023-04-12 04:43:49 +02:00

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labels 2023-04-12 04:43:51 +02:00

atika10 changed title from ~~Dimesions rounded.~~ to Dimensions panel misbehavior

2023-04-12 04:45:27 +02:00

Germano Cavalcante commented

2023-04-12 14:51:18 +02:00

What I mentioned before was UI related. The "precision" value set in the "properties" only affects the UI. If you simply change this precision value in the property called "scale" from 3 to 4, the value that in the UI is now displayed as 0.123 m, will display 0.1234 m.

The fact that it worked differently 10 years ago doesn't make it a bug.

Please start a thread about this on https://devtalk.blender.org/ instead of the Bug Tracker.

What I mentioned before was UI related. The "precision" value set in the "properties" only affects the UI. If you simply change this precision value in the property called `"scale"` from 3 to 4, the value that in the UI is now displayed as `0.123 m`, will display `0.1234 m`. The fact that it worked differently 10 years ago doesn't make it a bug. Please start a thread about this on https://devtalk.blender.org/ instead of the Bug Tracker.

Germano Cavalcante closed this issue

2023-04-12 14:51:20 +02:00

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labels 2023-04-12 14:51:21 +02:00

atika10 commented

2023-04-13 07:35:14 +02:00

What I mentioned before was UI related. The "precision" value set in the "properties" only affects the UI. If you simply change this precision value in the property called "scale" from 3 to 4, the value that in the UI is now displayed as 0.123 m, will display 0.1234 m.

The fact that it worked differently 10 years ago doesn't make it a bug.

Please start a thread about this on https://devtalk.blender.org/ instead of the Bug Tracker.

Thank you your answer!

I cant see the place where i can set precision from 3 to 4. (unit scale show 1.000000)

Im sorry, as i mentioned , my english is very bad (of course im learning constantly), so i didnt mean ten years ago, instead from 2009 to 2018 it definitely worked perfectly. (while this also includes that ten years ago)

On devtalk ,will developers deal with this problem?

> What I mentioned before was UI related. The "precision" value set in the "properties" only affects the UI. If you simply change this precision value in the property called `"scale"` from 3 to 4, the value that in the UI is now displayed as `0.123 m`, will display `0.1234 m`. > > The fact that it worked differently 10 years ago doesn't make it a bug. > > Please start a thread about this on https://devtalk.blender.org/ instead of the Bug Tracker. Thank you your answer! I cant see the place where i can set precision from 3 to 4. (unit scale show 1.000000) Im sorry, as i mentioned , my english is very bad (of course im learning constantly), so i didnt mean ten years ago, instead from 2009 to 2018 it definitely worked perfectly. (while this also includes that ten years ago) On devtalk ,will developers deal with this problem?

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Dimensions panel misbehavior #106695