Normal map node worked is not correct #108334

New Issue

Vladimir · 2023-05-26T23:15:51+02:00

Vladimir commented

2023-05-26 23:15:51 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: win10 x64
Graphics card: gtx 1650

Blender Version
Broken: 3.5.0, 1be25cfff1, 2023-03-29
Broken: 2.93
Worked: 2.92

Caused by 1c22b551d0

Short description of error

I do not think that this is an error or a bug, rather it is not a refinement.
In some cases, the normal map node does not display them as you would like.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
I created a Hight poly model and bake it into a plane. Then I applied the resulting texture to the Low poly base mesh. It didn't display correctly there, only part of it smoothed out, but the other part showed sharp edges, very similar to the Fresnel effect

**System Information** Operating system: win10 x64 Graphics card: gtx 1650 **Blender Version** Broken: 3.5.0, 1be25cfff18b, 2023-03-29 Broken: 2.93 Worked: 2.92 Caused by 1c22b551d0 **Short description of error** I do not think that this is an error or a bug, rather it is not a refinement. In some cases, the normal map node does not display them as you would like. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** I created a Hight poly model and bake it into a plane. Then I applied the resulting texture to the Low poly base mesh. It didn't display correctly there, only part of it smoothed out, but the other part showed sharp edges, very similar to the Fresnel effect

N1.blend

796 KiB

Vladimir added the

labels 2023-05-26 23:15:52 +02:00

Vladimir commented

2023-05-27 00:19:11 +02:00

In 2.83 Eevee and marmorset everything is fine, please return everything to the way it was before, or make it possible to control it somehow, it greatly limits the work with LP.

Richard Antalik commented

2023-05-27 08:04:47 +02:00

Can you re-bake this in 3.5 version? I did it here and I got "blank" UV canvas which seems to work well.

Will have to check if that is expected behavior though.

Can you re-bake this in 3.5 version? I did it here and I got "blank" UV canvas which seems to work well. Will have to check if that is expected behavior though.

Richard Antalik added

Status

Needs Information from User

and removed

Status

Needs Triage

labels 2023-05-27 08:04:55 +02:00

Vladimir commented

2023-05-27 20:12:34 +02:00

Can you re-bake this in 3.5 version? I did it here and I got "blank" UV canvas which seems to work well.

Will have to check if that is expected behavior though.

I don't really understand.
The problem is not the baking, but only the overlaying of the resulting texture, the only problem is how the normal map node works in the latest versions of blender. Normal map smooths only a small radius, and shows the original geometry, without taking into account the shade smooth very clearly visible sharp edges of the base mesh.In marmoset and in (Eevee) versions of blender to 2.83 is displayed all very well. And then something went wrong...

> Can you re-bake this in 3.5 version? I did it here and I got "blank" UV canvas which seems to work well. > > Will have to check if that is expected behavior though. I don't really understand. The problem is not the baking, but only the overlaying of the resulting texture, the only problem is how the normal map node works in the latest versions of blender. Normal map smooths only a small radius, and shows the original geometry, without taking into account the shade smooth very clearly visible sharp edges of the base mesh.In marmoset and in (Eevee) versions of blender to 2.83 is displayed all very well. And then something went wrong... ![](https://vk.com/video153509800_456239981)

Blender_N_Artifacts.jpg

592 KiB

Vladimir commented

2023-05-27 20:14:21 +02:00

Can you re-bake this in 3.5 version? I did it here and I got "blank" UV canvas which seems to work well.

Will have to check if that is expected behavior though.

> Can you re-bake this in 3.5 version? I did it here and I got "blank" UV canvas which seems to work well. > > Will have to check if that is expected behavior though.

Запись экрана_20230526_203945.mp4

8.6 MiB

Richard Antalik commented

2023-05-28 14:29:10 +02:00

Thanks for update, I have read steps to reproduce again, and seeing

I created a Hight poly model and bake it into a plane. Then I applied the resulting texture to the Low poly base mesh.

I wouldn't think this is correct workflow, but I don't do much modeling. I have baked high-poly mesh directly into low-poly and got way different texture which seems to work well - see image.

In any case will ask somebody more experienced in this area, perhaps I am missing something.

Thanks for update, I have read steps to reproduce again, and seeing > I created a Hight poly model and bake it into a plane. Then I applied the resulting texture to the Low poly base mesh. I wouldn't think this is correct workflow, but I don't do much modeling. I have baked high-poly mesh directly into low-poly and got way different texture which seems to work well - see image. In any case will ask somebody more experienced in this area, perhaps I am missing something.

Bez názvu.png

743 KiB

Iliya Katushenock commented

2023-05-28 14:46:48 +02:00

@VladimirNox Hey, just to be sure:

Create a plane. Move your model to this plane.
Bake normals form model on the plane.
Apply normal map on model? and get incorrect result (original normals + baked normals) ??
Or apply normal on plane? I get correct result in 4.0.
Also, in 3.5/3.4 the same for me.

@VladimirNox Hey, just to be sure: 1. Create a plane. Move your model to this plane. 2. Bake normals form model on the plane. 3. Apply normal map on model? and get incorrect result (original normals + baked normals) ?? Or apply normal on plane? I get correct result in 4.0. Also, in 3.5/3.4 the same for me.

Vladimir commented

2023-05-29 22:31:02 +02:00

I wouldn't think this is correct workflow, but I don't do much modeling. I have baked high-poly mesh directly into low-poly and got way different texture which seems to work well - see image.

Yes, but this does not fit all of the pipelines, then what about the hair cards? no one bakes from model to model there.

> I wouldn't think this is correct workflow, but I don't do much modeling. I have baked high-poly mesh directly into low-poly and got way different texture which seems to work well - see image. > Yes, but this does not fit all of the pipelines, then what about the hair cards? no one bakes from model to model there.

Vladimir commented

2023-05-29 22:42:36 +02:00

@VladimirNox Hey, just to be sure:

Create a plane. Move your model to this plane.

Bake normals form model on the plane.

Apply normal map on model? and get incorrect result (original normals + baked normals) ??
Or apply normal on plane? I get correct result in 4.0.
Also, in 3.5/3.4 the same for me.

The normal map has no physical data about past normals, it is a raster image that relies on color mixing. This is just a physical limitation of the node, which appeared in versions 2.84 + before version 2.83 eevee and cycles displayed normals differently, and in version 2.84 + all this was limited and averaged, for the same results in both engines, from which the node became very limited.
There is no way I can check, build 4.0 db43b27227 9 did not start.

> @VladimirNox Hey, just to be sure: > 1. Create a plane. Move your model to this plane. > 2. Bake normals form model on the plane. > 3. Apply normal map on model? and get incorrect result (original normals + baked normals) ?? > Or apply normal on plane? I get correct result in 4.0. > Also, in 3.5/3.4 the same for me. The normal map has no physical data about past normals, it is a raster image that relies on color mixing. This is just a physical limitation of the node, which appeared in versions 2.84 + before version 2.83 eevee and cycles displayed normals differently, and in version 2.84 + all this was limited and averaged, for the same results in both engines, from which the node became very limited. There is no way I can check, build 4.0 db43b272277 9 did not start.

Iliya Katushenock commented

2023-05-29 23:31:09 +02:00

Are you saying this is an accepted design and not a bug?
I just might not understand

Are you saying this is an accepted design and not a bug? _I just might not understand_

Vladimir commented

2023-05-30 01:35:41 +02:00

Are you saying this is an accepted design and not a bug?
I just might not understand

Я говорю разработчики специально ограничили ноду, так как в разных движках был результат разный, сейчас же в рендер движках всё одинаково, но результат по прежнему плохой, это не баг и не какая то там недоработка, это специальное ограничение, которое мешает просто жить, с ним работа над Game ready моделями, становиться в разы сложнее, или даже не возможной такая штука как low poly Hair Cards уже становиться просто не доступна, так как не можешь оценить приемлемость модели,в Блендере она вся отображается поломанной, и он проявляет рёбра которые пеклись даже с HP на LP, раньше в eevee такого не было.

> Are you saying this is an accepted design and not a bug? > _I just might not understand_ Я говорю разработчики специально ограничили ноду, так как в разных движках был результат разный, сейчас же в рендер движках всё одинаково, но результат по прежнему плохой, это не баг и не какая то там недоработка, это специальное ограничение, которое мешает просто жить, с ним работа над Game ready моделями, становиться в разы сложнее, или даже не возможной такая штука как low poly Hair Cards уже становиться просто не доступна, так как не можешь оценить приемлемость модели,в Блендере она вся отображается поломанной, и он проявляет рёбра которые пеклись даже с HP на LP, раньше в eevee такого не было.

28630674.jpg

236 KiB

Iliya Katushenock commented

2023-05-30 07:42:32 +02:00

Thanks for the report, but the issue reported here is a request for modified/improved behavior and not a bug in current behavior. Closing as this bug tracker is only for bugs and errors.

For user requests and feedback, please use other channels: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

For more information on why this isn't considered a bug, visit: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Reference/Not_a_bug

Thanks for the report, but the issue reported here is a request for modified/improved behavior and not a bug in current behavior. Closing as this bug tracker is only for bugs and errors. For user requests and feedback, please use other channels: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests For more information on why this isn't considered a bug, visit: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Reference/Not_a_bug

Iliya Katushenock closed this issue

2023-05-30 07:42:33 +02:00

Blender Bot added

Status

Archived

and removed

Status

Needs Information from User

labels 2023-05-30 07:42:35 +02:00

Vladimir commented

2023-05-31 05:41:52 +02:00

Thanks for the report, but the issue reported here is a request for modified/improved behavior and not a bug in current behavior. Closing as this bug tracker is only for bugs and errors.

For user requests and feedback, please use other channels: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

For more information on why this isn't considered a bug, visit: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Reference/Not_a_bug

Well tell me, what do you call something that interferes and prevents you from continuing your work?
Incorrect display of normal maps, isn't that a problem?

This is ok?

> Thanks for the report, but the issue reported here is a request for modified/improved behavior and not a bug in current behavior. Closing as this bug tracker is only for bugs and errors. > > For user requests and feedback, please use other channels: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests > > For more information on why this isn't considered a bug, visit: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Reference/Not_a_bug Well tell me, what do you call something that interferes and prevents you from continuing your work? Incorrect display of normal maps, isn't that a problem? This is ok?

28630674.jpg

226 KiB

Iliya Katushenock reopened this issue

2023-05-31 14:59:36 +02:00

Blender Bot added

and removed

labels 2023-05-31 14:59:38 +02:00

Philipp Oeser commented