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Blender freezes when making edits in the Layout #108388

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opened 2023-05-29 10:47:35 +02:00 by Matteo-Mannino · 23 comments
Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-05-29 10:47:35 +02:00
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System Information
Operating system: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro, 10.0.19045 Build 19045
Graphics card: Radeon 6900XT
CPU: Ryzen 9 5900X
RAM: 32GB

Blender Version
Broken: 3.5.1, 3.6 Beta, 4.0 Alpha
Worked: Haven't tried anything lower.

Any time I move the cube in the starter scene through the Layout, Blender freezes and never recovers.

I don't have a crash report from the debug log because it never actually crashes. I have a debug log from a forced shutdown that says the CUEW initialization failed, which seems to be related to CUDA... but that should fail anyway because my card doesn't support CUDA, so that doesn't seem related to the freeze. (but how do I turn that off so it doesn't bother checking?)

I've compiled the source to try to get a breakpoint in the debugger, but it seems to be calling sleep over and over again. When I run verysleepy on it, it seems to sample WaitForSingleObjectEx quite frequently. Could be a red herring, but it seems I've hit a thread lock. My guess is some driver is hung and holding onto a mutex. Not sure how to figure out which one, or even if that's even the case. Currently I'm stuck.

**System Information** Operating system: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro, 10.0.19045 Build 19045 Graphics card: Radeon 6900XT CPU: Ryzen 9 5900X RAM: 32GB **Blender Version** Broken: 3.5.1, 3.6 Beta, 4.0 Alpha Worked: Haven't tried anything lower. Any time I move the cube in the starter scene through the Layout, Blender freezes and never recovers. I don't have a crash report from the debug log because it never actually crashes. I have a debug log from a forced shutdown that says the CUEW initialization failed, which seems to be related to CUDA... but that should fail anyway because my card doesn't support CUDA, so that doesn't seem related to the freeze. (but how do I turn that off so it doesn't bother checking?) I've compiled the source to try to get a breakpoint in the debugger, but it seems to be calling sleep over and over again. When I run verysleepy on it, it seems to sample WaitForSingleObjectEx quite frequently. Could be a red herring, but it seems I've hit a thread lock. My guess is some driver is hung and holding onto a mutex. Not sure how to figure out which one, or even if that's even the case. Currently I'm stuck.
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Iliya Katushenock commented 2023-05-29 10:57:19 +02:00
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Hello, can you capture short video with freeze from blender default scene start?

Hello, can you capture short video with freeze from blender default scene start?
Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-05-29 11:38:00 +02:00
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Sure. Basically, as soon as I move the cube a little, the whole program freezes. I didn't actually finish moving the cube - the program freezes while I'm moving it. I'm trying to click on things in the video, and nothing is responding. I've left it running for an hour before with no change. Hope this is helpful.

Sure. Basically, as soon as I move the cube a little, the whole program freezes. I didn't actually finish moving the cube - the program freezes while I'm moving it. I'm trying to click on things in the video, and nothing is responding. I've left it running for an hour before with no change. Hope this is helpful.
2023-05-29 02-29-33.mp4
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Iliya Katushenock commented 2023-05-29 11:41:14 +02:00
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Can you start blender from terminal with --debug-depsgraph-no-threads --threads 1 flags?

Can you start blender from terminal with `--debug-depsgraph-no-threads --threads 1` flags?
Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-05-29 11:54:38 +02:00
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C:\Program Files\Blender Foundation\Blender 3.5>blender.exe --debug-depsgraph-no-threads --threads 1

It was the same issue - no change.

I also tried
C:\Program Files\Blender Foundation\Blender 3.5>blender-launcher.exe --debug-depsgraph-no-threads --threads 1

And still no difference.

Edit: I didn't get any debug output either.

`C:\Program Files\Blender Foundation\Blender 3.5>blender.exe --debug-depsgraph-no-threads --threads 1` It was the same issue - no change. I also tried `C:\Program Files\Blender Foundation\Blender 3.5>blender-launcher.exe --debug-depsgraph-no-threads --threads 1` And still no difference. Edit: I didn't get any debug output either.
Iliya Katushenock commented 2023-05-29 11:55:52 +02:00
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Hm. Can you make sure you have the latest drivers installed now?

Hm. Can you make sure you have the latest drivers installed now?
Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-05-29 12:05:19 +02:00
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Yeah, I have the latest drivers for my graphics card and my windows 10 is up to date. I can't find any out-of-date drivers on my system. Are there any other specific drivers I should check to make sure?

Yeah, I have the latest drivers for my graphics card and my windows 10 is up to date. I can't find any out-of-date drivers on my system. Are there any other specific drivers I should check to make sure?
Iliya Katushenock commented 2023-05-29 12:09:42 +02:00
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Not sure.
Also, can you check if you have any third party addons installed? Maybe an antivirus?

Not sure. Also, can you check if you have any third party addons installed? Maybe an antivirus?
Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-05-29 12:13:16 +02:00
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I have these add-ons (attached image)... they seemed to have come with the installation. I only have Windows Defender - no other anti-virus.
image

I have these add-ons (attached image)... they seemed to have come with the installation. I only have Windows Defender - no other anti-virus. ![image](/attachments/afd4fb19-5a96-4666-9e95-31319e3a10e8)
image.png
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image.png
Iliya Katushenock commented 2023-05-29 12:18:07 +02:00
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This happens only for object move gizmo operator, or you can reproduce this for any other?

  • Move nodes in node editor.
  • Change bevel size in edit mode.
  • Align lamp on other object.
  • ... .
This happens only for object move gizmo operator, or you can reproduce this for any other? - Move nodes in node editor. - Change bevel size in edit mode. - Align lamp on other object. - ... .
Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-05-29 12:35:50 +02:00
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It only happens in Layout when attempting to move or change an object. I can't reproduce this in any other view.

For example, I can go into Geometry Nodes and add a subdivision modifier. I can go into Animation and animate the square to move across the x-axis. I can even sculpt.

But, I cannot edit it in Layout - I can't even put in keyboard values without it eventually freezing. I can't even change the resolution in the Scene. It usually happens about 2 seconds after making a change from anything in the Layout view.

It only happens in Layout when attempting to move or change an object. I can't reproduce this in any other view. For example, I can go into Geometry Nodes and add a subdivision modifier. I can go into Animation and animate the square to move across the x-axis. I can even sculpt. But, I cannot edit it in Layout - I can't even put in keyboard values without it eventually freezing. I can't even change the resolution in the Scene. It usually happens about 2 seconds after making a change from anything in the Layout view.
Germano Cavalcante commented 2023-05-29 16:52:35 +02:00
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Have you checked the vendor's website for the latest drivers?
It's worth noting that relying solely on Windows Update for driver updates can be limiting, as it may not always provide the most up-to-date or specific drivers for your setup.

To upgrade to the latest driver, see here for more information: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/troubleshooting/gpu/index.html

Note that the Ryzen 9 5900X does have integrated graphics. So you have two GPU options to choose to make Blender run:

  • The integrated GPU in the Ryzen 9 5900X or
  • Radeon 6900XT

If one is giving you problems, you can try the other.

One way to see which GPU Blender is using is to check system-info.txt (generated in Help > Save System Info)

Have you checked the vendor's website for the latest drivers? It's worth noting that relying solely on Windows Update for driver updates can be limiting, as it may not always provide the most up-to-date or specific drivers for your setup. To upgrade to the latest driver, see here for more information: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/troubleshooting/gpu/index.html Note that the Ryzen 9 5900X does have integrated graphics. So you have two GPU options to choose to make Blender run: - The integrated GPU in the Ryzen 9 5900X or - Radeon 6900XT If one is giving you problems, you can try the other. One way to see which GPU Blender is using is to check `system-info.txt` (generated in `Help` > `Save System Info`)
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Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-05-29 23:47:33 +02:00
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I've tried disabling Multi-sampling previously when going through this doc (I tried the debugging steps before coming here). That didn't work.

I tried downgrading to the AMD Software: PRO Edition meant for creators (22.Q4), but that caused blender to crash on start up.

I went back to the most current drivers (Adrenalin 23.5.1 (WHQL Recommended)), and still have the crash on start up. Since it's crashing, I tried running blender_debug_gpu and I've attached the log file.

The system info tells me I'm using the Radeon 6900XT GPU.

Unfortunately since I now can't reliably get to the settings, is there a way to change the settings without opening Blender?

I've tried disabling Multi-sampling previously when going through this doc (I tried the debugging steps before coming here). That didn't work. I tried downgrading to the AMD Software: PRO Edition meant for creators (22.Q4), but that caused blender to crash on start up. I went back to the most current drivers (Adrenalin 23.5.1 (WHQL Recommended)), and still have the crash on start up. Since it's crashing, I tried running `blender_debug_gpu` and I've attached the log file. The system info tells me I'm using the Radeon 6900XT GPU. Unfortunately since I now can't reliably get to the settings, is there a way to change the settings without opening Blender?
blender_debug_output.txt
21 KiB
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Germano Cavalcante commented 2023-05-30 14:05:19 +02:00
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The system info tells me I'm using the Radeon 6900XT GPU.

Try the other GPU. I found this link on Google: https://pureinfotech.com/set-gpu-app-windows-10/

> The system info tells me I'm using the Radeon 6900XT GPU. Try the other GPU. I found this link on Google: https://pureinfotech.com/set-gpu-app-windows-10/
Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-05-31 07:08:53 +02:00
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I've tried changing my GPU to both options (the "Power saving" integrated GPU, and the High-Performance which I presume is the 6900XT). Neither fix the issue.

I tried installing older versions. 2.79b is the latest version that doesn't freeze. I'd like to get 3.5.1 working, though.

I've tried changing my GPU to both options (the "Power saving" integrated GPU, and the High-Performance which I presume is the 6900XT). Neither fix the issue. I tried installing older versions. 2.79b is the latest version that doesn't freeze. I'd like to get 3.5.1 working, though.
Iliya Katushenock commented 2023-05-31 13:48:01 +02:00
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Hm, just ot make sure, can you attach file of system info? Help -> Sav Syslem Info (in 3.5).

Hm, just ot make sure, can you attach file of system info? `Help` -> `Sav Syslem Info` (in 3.5).
Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-06-01 07:45:38 +02:00
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Here's s screenshot of my options. Neither are working for Blender.

The Ryzen 9 5900X does not have integrated graphics. Here's the spec sheet on the Ryzen 9 5900X: https://www.amd.com/en/product/10461

Attached is the system info for both modes. Attached is an image of the only difference.

image
image

Here's s screenshot of my options. Neither are working for Blender. The Ryzen 9 5900X does not have integrated graphics. Here's the spec sheet on the Ryzen 9 5900X: https://www.amd.com/en/product/10461 Attached is the system info for both modes. Attached is an image of the only difference. ![image](/attachments/1c8b6247-c050-4b91-aba1-8785c306d19a) ![image](/attachments/ac74d6a0-108f-46f0-a488-1fd19b97a60a)
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blender_system_info_highperformance.txt
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image.png
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blender_system_info_lowpower.txt
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Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-06-01 11:44:20 +02:00
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Note that in one of debug txt I posted above, it seems to be crashing here:

static bool detect_mip_render_workaround()

which seems to be failing on this opengl error:
debug::check_gl_error("Cubemap Workaround End9");

Is there any info I can provide by attaching the debugger? A good place for a breakpoint?

Is there a work-around for Radeon 6900XT through the graphics card options?

Note that in one of debug txt I posted above, it seems to be crashing here: `static bool detect_mip_render_workaround()` which seems to be failing on this opengl error: `debug::check_gl_error("Cubemap Workaround End9");` Is there any info I can provide by attaching the debugger? A good place for a breakpoint? Is there a work-around for Radeon 6900XT through the graphics card options?
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Pratik Borhade commented 2023-06-02 04:05:28 +02:00
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Hi, did I understand correctly that crash now happens on startup? (report description indicates crash due object translation)

Any improvement in situation when you start blender from blender_debug_gpu_glitchworkaround.cmd batch file?

which seems to be failing on this opengl error:
debug::check_gl_error("Cubemap Workaround End9");

Likely an issue related to GPU drivers.
Could you try clean install of GPU drivers?

Hi, did I understand correctly that crash now happens on startup? (report description indicates crash due object translation) Any improvement in situation when you start blender from `blender_debug_gpu_glitchworkaround.cmd` batch file? > which seems to be failing on this opengl error: debug::check_gl_error("Cubemap Workaround End9"); Likely an issue related to GPU drivers. Could you try clean install of GPU drivers?
Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-06-03 21:33:56 +02:00
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Yup, it used to happen only after editing a scene in the Layout. Now it hangs on start up. Not sure what's different.

I've tried a fresh driver install. I also tried installing multiple different drivers.

I've tried re-installing blender (after wiping it completely).

Apologies, as a dev myself, I know there's not much to go on... I wish I could provide more info but I'm out of ideas short of having a dev take a direct look at my machine. I appreciate the time you all have given.

Are there any start-up settings I can modify without needing to launch blender itself? Is there a "safe-mode" for blender that uses software renderer?

Would updating to Windows 11 help? Is it reasonable to expect a difference?

Yup, it used to happen only after editing a scene in the Layout. Now it hangs on start up. Not sure what's different. I've tried a fresh driver install. I also tried installing multiple different drivers. I've tried re-installing blender (after wiping it completely). Apologies, as a dev myself, I know there's not much to go on... I wish I could provide more info but I'm out of ideas short of having a dev take a direct look at my machine. I appreciate the time you all have given. Are there any start-up settings I can modify without needing to launch blender itself? Is there a "safe-mode" for blender that uses software renderer? Would updating to Windows 11 help? Is it reasonable to expect a difference?
Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-06-04 05:56:48 +02:00
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Oh, sorry, to answer your question on blender_debug_gpu_glitchworkaround.cmd, no it didn't help.

Oh, sorry, to answer your question on `blender_debug_gpu_glitchworkaround.cmd`, no it didn't help.
Richard Antalik commented 2023-06-06 17:30:53 +02:00
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Are there any start-up settings I can modify without needing to launch blender itself? Is there a "safe-mode" for blender that uses software renderer?

There is a way to do that:
From https://github.com/pal1000/mesa-dist-win/releases/tag/21.1.1 download file mesa3d-21.1.1-release-msvc.7z.
Then extract files opengl32.dll and libglapi.dll to folder where blender.exe is located.
You may need to download later release, this is what I have tested quite some time ago.

As for breakpoints, Not sure personally, the sleep stuff is normal, and there are a lot of periodic calls to handle various stuff. You may have more success with GPU specific debugging tools, perhaps @Jeroen-Bakker can help here

Also see https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Source/EEVEE_%26_Viewport/GPU_Module#Debugging for more info

> Are there any start-up settings I can modify without needing to launch blender itself? Is there a "safe-mode" for blender that uses software renderer? There is a way to do that: From https://github.com/pal1000/mesa-dist-win/releases/tag/21.1.1 download file mesa3d-21.1.1-release-msvc.7z. Then extract files opengl32.dll and libglapi.dll to folder where blender.exe is located. You may need to download later release, this is what I have tested quite some time ago. As for breakpoints, Not sure personally, the sleep stuff is normal, and there are a lot of periodic calls to handle various stuff. You may have more success with GPU specific debugging tools, perhaps @Jeroen-Bakker can help here Also see https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Source/EEVEE_%26_Viewport/GPU_Module#Debugging for more info
Jeroen Bakker commented 2023-06-07 08:12:54 +02:00
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The difference between low/high performance might be related that in one the gpu work-arounds where enabled and the other one not. Normally low/high performance only changes the amount of power/frequency the GPU gets.

GPU debug tools don't help for stalls on this level. It is also strange as it is related to a single workspace. How Blender code is setup this should not matter as each editor type has its own drawing loop. Eg there is no difference between an 3d editor in layout and modelling/sculpting.

Is it possible to compile Blender where WITH_COMPILER_ASAN=On it can report some issues inside drivers.

detect_mip_render_workaround tries to draw in a cubemap and reads back the result. the statement you mentioned does ask the GPU driver if in this process went wrong on OpenGL side (eg driver reports an error). in debug_callback the only thing I can see that can cause this issue is CLOG. Perhaps that is a point to add a break point.

We should handle the debug_callback separately. First try to figure our why it fails on startup so we can blender to start again. After that we can continue with the layout/cube moving.

The difference between low/high performance might be related that in one the gpu work-arounds where enabled and the other one not. Normally low/high performance only changes the amount of power/frequency the GPU gets. GPU debug tools don't help for stalls on this level. It is also strange as it is related to a single workspace. How Blender code is setup this should not matter as each editor type has its own drawing loop. Eg there is no difference between an 3d editor in layout and modelling/sculpting. Is it possible to compile Blender where `WITH_COMPILER_ASAN=On` it can report some issues inside drivers. `detect_mip_render_workaround` tries to draw in a cubemap and reads back the result. the statement you mentioned does ask the GPU driver if in this process went wrong on OpenGL side (eg driver reports an error). in `debug_callback` the only thing I can see that can cause this issue is CLOG. Perhaps that is a point to add a break point. We should handle the debug_callback separately. First try to figure our why it fails on startup so we can blender to start again. After that we can continue with the layout/cube moving.
Matteo-Mannino commented 2023-06-11 05:16:27 +02:00
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I wrote some quick OpenGL tests and determined that anytime I tried to allocate a large vertex buffer object over 1GB and wrote into it, the GPU would stall. I did some allocation tests to increase the size, and found I would get a guaranteed stall around 2GB. (anything less was random)

I have noticed my OpenGL games will also crash randomly anytime I try to push them.

Anyway, either my 6900XT memory has gone bad or the Radeon OpenGL drivers still have considerable bugs.

Because of this, and several other driver compatibility issues I've experienced with Radeon, I went out and bought a GeForce. Blender works perfectly now. Thank you for the help! :)

I wrote some quick OpenGL tests and determined that anytime I tried to allocate a large vertex buffer object over 1GB and wrote into it, the GPU would stall. I did some allocation tests to increase the size, and found I would get a guaranteed stall around 2GB. (anything less was random) I have noticed my OpenGL games will also crash randomly anytime I try to push them. Anyway, either my 6900XT memory has gone bad or the Radeon OpenGL drivers still have considerable bugs. Because of this, and several other driver compatibility issues I've experienced with Radeon, I went out and bought a GeForce. Blender works perfectly now. Thank you for the help! :)
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Reference: blender/blender#108388
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Delete Branch "%!s()"

Deleting a branch is permanent. Although the deleted branch may continue to exist for a short time before it actually gets removed, it CANNOT be undone in most cases. Continue?