"Emulate 3 Button Mouse" conflicts with ALT left click, for instance to disable multipe modifiers on multiple objects #109484

New Issue

ncic · 2023-06-29T07:10:48+02:00

ncic commented

2023-06-29 07:10:48 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: mac os ventura 13.4
Graphics card: Apple M1 Max GPU 32cores Metal 3

Blender Version
3.6

Short description of error
Enabilng setting "emulate 3 button mouse" conflicts with ALT key left click operations, for instance when interacting with a panel.
In this case in the properties panel when ALT left clicking on an icon to disable multipe modifiers on multiple objects.
the cursor turns into a navigation cross and doesnt execute a click.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Go to the settings menu/input - Enable "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" option.

Add a modifier to an object.
Duplicate the object multiple times.
Select all the duplicated objects.

Go to the modifiers panel.

While holding down the ALT key, attempt to disable the modifier on all the selected objects by left clicking on the "Display Modifier in Viewport" icon or any other relevant modifier option.

You will find the cursor overtaken by the navigation mode, the cursor turning into navigation arrows and disabling a regular click operation.

**System Information** Operating system: mac os ventura 13.4 Graphics card: Apple M1 Max GPU 32cores Metal 3 **Blender Version** 3.6 **Short description of error** Enabilng setting "emulate 3 button mouse" conflicts with ALT key left click operations, for instance when interacting with a panel. In this case in the properties panel when ALT left clicking on an icon to disable multipe modifiers on multiple objects. the cursor turns into a navigation cross and doesnt execute a click. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Go to the settings menu/input - Enable "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" option. Add a modifier to an object. Duplicate the object multiple times. Select all the duplicated objects. Go to the modifiers panel. While holding down the ALT key, attempt to disable the modifier on all the selected objects by left clicking on the "Display Modifier in Viewport" icon or any other relevant modifier option. You will find the cursor overtaken by the navigation mode, the cursor turning into navigation arrows and disabling a regular click operation.

ncic added the

labels 2023-06-29 07:10:49 +02:00

YimingWu commented

2023-06-29 07:45:11 +02:00

I believe this never worked with "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" since I was using it a lot on trackpads. A lot of times I just disable it temporarily and do my stuff.

Need UI guys to have a discussion on this.

My suggestion would be

to have another modifier key (or configurable regular key as modifier key) to replace alt in multi-edit (and other conflicting situations), like maybe space key.
to have a quick toggle shortcut, so you'll basically have alt key in two modes that can be switched (but this will preferably only be effective when emulate 3btn is enabled).

I believe this never worked with "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" since I was using it a lot on trackpads. A lot of times I just disable it temporarily and do my stuff. Need UI guys to have a discussion on this. My suggestion would be 1. to have another modifier key (or configurable regular key as modifier key) to replace alt in multi-edit (and other conflicting situations), like maybe space key. 2. to have a quick toggle shortcut, so you'll basically have alt key in two modes that can be switched (but this will preferably only be effective when emulate 3btn is enabled).

YimingWu added

and removed

labels 2023-06-29 07:45:25 +02:00

ncic commented

2023-06-29 08:12:44 +02:00

Thank you @ChengduLittleA for the comment and suggestion of the toggling "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" via a assigned shortcut.

Using shortcuts to enable another shortcut seems to me one step too far to be useful. At that point i personally find it counter intuitive.
...certainly for a central key as ALT that is used heavily to navigate the interface on "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" enabled.

There is the option to use OS-key instead of ALT which releases the ALT for other operations like mentioned in my first post.
I would rather suggest that option as workaround than the toggling shortcut one as it doesnt add that extra layer on top.

But OS-key doesnt solve the conflict for the users that prefer to use ALT for navigation.

Thank you @ChengduLittleA for the comment and suggestion of the toggling "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" via a assigned shortcut. Using shortcuts to enable another shortcut seems to me one step too far to be useful. At that point i personally find it counter intuitive. ...certainly for a central key as ALT that is used heavily to navigate the interface on "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" enabled. There is the option to use OS-key instead of ALT which releases the ALT for other operations like mentioned in my first post. I would rather suggest that option as workaround than the toggling shortcut one as it doesnt add that extra layer on top. But OS-key doesnt solve the conflict for the users that prefer to use ALT for navigation.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2023-06-29 14:51:40 +02:00

As far as I remember, alt+LMB is used for obiting. There is no orbiting needed anywhere except 3d view.

YimingWu commented

2023-06-29 16:31:30 +02:00

@1D_Inc It can be used to pan 2D regions as well.

ncic commented

2023-06-29 16:36:37 +02:00

Hi @1D_Inc

Yes thats correct.
This issue is not about problems with orbiting with alt LMB
The problem is when you want to do some other things with ALT LMB click when "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" is enabled
...because ALT puts the cursor in a navigation mode it doesnt register a regular ALT click wiht LMB on an icon for instance in the properties panel when the cursor is hovering abovie since even the panels can be zoomed in, and panned with ALT pressed down.

Like described in the steps of my first post
Try it you will understand then

Hi @1D_Inc Yes thats correct. This issue is not about problems with orbiting with alt LMB The problem is when you want to do some other things with ALT LMB click when "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" is enabled ...because ALT puts the cursor in a navigation mode it doesnt register a regular ALT click wiht LMB on an icon for instance in the properties panel when the cursor is hovering abovie since even the panels can be zoomed in, and panned with ALT pressed down. Like described in the steps of my first post Try it you will understand then

ncic closed this issue

2023-06-29 16:36:39 +02:00

Blender Bot added

and removed

labels 2023-06-29 16:36:42 +02:00

ncic reopened this issue

2023-06-29 16:37:03 +02:00

Blender Bot added

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labels 2023-06-29 16:37:05 +02:00

ncic commented

2023-06-29 16:37:53 +02:00

Sorry closed the issue by mistake
therefore reopened it

Sorry closed the issue by mistake therefore reopened it

Germano Cavalcante added

and removed

labels 2023-06-29 23:38:02 +02:00

Paul Kotelevets commented

2023-06-30 09:36:45 +02:00

Hi @1D_Inc

...because ALT puts the cursor in a navigation mode it doesnt register a regular ALT click wiht LMB on an icon for instance in the properties panel when the cursor is hovering abovie since even the panels can be zoomed in, and panned with ALT pressed down.

Yes, for example loop selection doesnot work either.
This is why we dont use it for modeling, for example.
Btw, what is a problem "emulate 3 button mouse" mode is suppose to solve?
As far as I remember, sculptors using it.

> Hi @1D_Inc > > ...because ALT puts the cursor in a navigation mode it doesnt register a regular ALT click wiht LMB on an icon for instance in the properties panel when the cursor is hovering abovie since even the panels can be zoomed in, and panned with ALT pressed down. Yes, for example loop selection doesnot work either. This is why we dont use it for modeling, for example. Btw, what is a problem "emulate 3 button mouse" mode is suppose to solve? As far as I remember, sculptors using it.

ncic commented

2023-06-30 12:29:58 +02:00

@1D_Inc

I suppose the main idea is for people who don't have or use a mouse when working since blenders default navigation behaviour centers around using the mouse buttons to navigate.

For instance some prefer to use the trackpad on their laptop
...or use a wacom pen where they use the pen buttons for other things.
...or come from another package where a keyboard modifier key is used to drive navigation (modo, zbrush, cinema 4d) and just prefer that way of navigating

The option we are discussing enables one to use a modifier key on the keyboard to drive navigation instead of it being centered around the middle mouse button.

To get back loop selection on ALT LMB click while "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" is enabled set the setting to "OS-key" instead of "ALT" in its drop down.
then try ALT clicking for a loop or ALT CTRL for ring selection.

@1D_Inc I suppose the main idea is for people who don't have or use a mouse when working since blenders default navigation behaviour centers around using the mouse buttons to navigate. For instance some prefer to use the trackpad on their laptop ...or use a wacom pen where they use the pen buttons for other things. ...or come from another package where a keyboard modifier key is used to drive navigation (modo, zbrush, cinema 4d) and just prefer that way of navigating The option we are discussing enables one to use a modifier key on the keyboard to drive navigation instead of it being centered around the middle mouse button. To get back loop selection on ALT LMB click while "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" is enabled set the setting to "OS-key" instead of "ALT" in its drop down. then try ALT clicking for a loop or ALT CTRL for ring selection.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2023-06-30 17:34:24 +02:00

To get back loop selection on ALT LMB click while "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" is enabled set the setting to "OS-key" instead of "ALT" in its drop down.

I mean in other similar cases such a differentiation is solved as ALT+CLICK vs ALT+DRAG actions.
For example, active tools can be activated with dragging holding ALT (this is made because gizmos-based concepts has critical flaws, so a checkbox has been added to keymap prefs), but selecting loops selection s still remain as ALT+click

click = press + release, which makes such an action clunky and slow, since you have to hold mouse still during action, and it is not very compatible with human motorics, especially during using pen tablet, but makes it at least available.

> To get back loop selection on ALT LMB click while "Emulate 3 Button Mouse" is enabled set the setting to "OS-key" instead of "ALT" in its drop down. I mean in other similar cases such a differentiation is solved as ALT+CLICK vs ALT+DRAG actions. For example, active tools can be activated with dragging holding ALT (this is made because gizmos-based concepts has critical flaws, so a checkbox has been added to keymap prefs), but selecting loops selection s still remain as ALT+click click = press + release, which makes such an action clunky and slow, since you have to hold mouse still during action, and it is not very compatible with human motorics, especially during using pen tablet, but makes it at least available.

👍 1

YimingWu commented

2023-07-02 17:18:48 +02:00

click = press + release, which makes such an action clunky and slow, since you have to hold mouse still during action, and it is not very compatible with human motorics, especially during using pen tablet, but makes it at least available.

Idk but I think 2d Dragging should trigger on "drag over threshold" otherwise pass the event for whatever is waiting, like a button. This way it's gonna be much more usable for tablets as well.

> click = press + release, which makes such an action clunky and slow, since you have to hold mouse still during action, and it is not very compatible with human motorics, especially during using pen tablet, but makes it at least available. Idk but I think 2d Dragging should trigger on "drag over threshold" otherwise pass the event for whatever is waiting, like a button. This way it's gonna be much more usable for tablets as well.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2023-07-03 04:08:30 +02:00

Drag over threshold solution is a popular solution for sure, but it is also not compatible with human motorics, as a result it also produces clunky behaviour.
OSkey (Winkey? Super?) is pretty hard to setup on linux, so I didnt found the way to make it work.

There also was solution like that
https://youtu.be/eIiW3fDuElA

Drag over threshold solution is a popular solution for sure, but it is also not compatible with human motorics, as a result it also produces clunky behaviour. OSkey (Winkey? Super?) is pretty hard to setup on linux, so I didnt found the way to make it work. There also was solution like that https://youtu.be/eIiW3fDuElA

Pratik Borhade referenced this issue

2023-07-12 09:32:54 +02:00

Cant Deselect edge loops with Emulate 3 Button Mouse enabled #109962

Mehmet-Karakoy referenced this issue

2023-07-12 13:46:39 +02:00

Cant Deselect edge loops with Emulate 3 Button Mouse enabled #109962

Lukas Wieg commented

2024-02-10 13:55:12 +01:00

I stumbled over this topic while modelling something quickly on my laptop. The emulate 3button mouse feature is quite important on a mobile setup.
I understand the approach of the recommended YT tutorial. Unfortunately, this would mean that we need to assign a lot of "disable" shortcuts to get this feature properly working.

@1D_Inc

OSkey (Winkey? Super?) is pretty hard to setup on linux, so I didnt found the way to make it work.

Do you mind referencing the place in the source code where you tried that? I'm curious to get into blender developing. Currently, I have a lot of spare time :D

Anyhow, just wanted to bump this up again.

I stumbled over this topic while modelling something quickly on my laptop. The emulate 3button mouse feature is quite important on a mobile setup. I understand the approach of the recommended YT tutorial. Unfortunately, this would mean that we need to assign a lot of "disable" shortcuts to get this feature properly working. @1D_Inc > OSkey (Winkey? Super?) is pretty hard to setup on linux, so I didnt found the way to make it work. Do you mind referencing the place in the source code where you tried that? I'm curious to get into blender developing. Currently, I have a lot of spare time :D Anyhow, just wanted to bump this up again.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2024-02-12 21:41:23 +01:00

@LukasWieg I mean that Oskey is quite challenging to reassingn in OS.
Also some laptops has only one Oskey near right ctrl, and doesnot have left one.

@LukasWieg I mean that Oskey is quite challenging to reassingn in OS. Also some laptops has only one Oskey near right ctrl, and doesnot have left one.

Lukas Wieg commented

2024-02-20 08:21:06 +01:00

Ok, yeah I took a look into the source and it seams as if the Oskey should be supported for all platforms except for windows. In Windows it's disabled because the startmenu opens.

Maybe the solution would be to add an option to select either the alt or the Oskey? As it currently allows for both which renders shortcuts with the alt key useless.

Ok, yeah I took a look into the source and it seams as if the Oskey should be supported for all platforms except for windows. In Windows it's disabled because the startmenu opens. Maybe the solution would be to add an option to select either the alt or the Oskey? As it currently allows for both which renders shortcuts with the alt key useless.

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2024-02-20 16:03:12 +01:00

This issue was discussed five years ago and my comment #69323 (comment) is still relevant.

Such an option should be in Keymap > Preferences, and reassign some specific keys, not change the global behavior. Especially since it's needed mainly for just a few navigation actions.

Although for some reason in all other programs all the basic stuff works out of the box and you don't have to switch anything, it's a mystery.

Of course no "OSkey" (whatever you mean by that term) should be used for the most basic functions. They are not intended to be used for that.

This issue was discussed five years ago and my comment https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/issues/69323#issuecomment-402007 is still relevant. Such an option should be in Keymap > Preferences, and reassign some specific keys, not change the global behavior. Especially since it's needed mainly for just a few navigation actions. Although for some reason in all other programs all the basic stuff works out of the box and you don't have to switch anything, it's a mystery. Of course no "OSkey" (whatever you mean by that term) should be used for the most basic functions. They are not intended to be used for that.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2024-02-24 05:50:43 +01:00

Originally all the other software has cloned AutoCAD solution for viewport orbiting via alt, which was designed specifically for 2d drafting (the original purpose of AutoCAD where it is commonly used till today)
It doesnot fit 3d really well since require two hands for the most relevant operations such as viewport navigation.

Originally all the other software has cloned AutoCAD solution for viewport orbiting via alt, which was designed specifically for 2d drafting (the original purpose of AutoCAD where it is commonly used till today) It doesnot fit 3d really well since require two hands for the most relevant operations such as viewport navigation.

Lukas Wieg commented

2024-02-26 09:16:55 +01:00

Yeah, totally get the points. I also like the MMB when I have a mouse available, but sometimes I only have my laptop at hand. As Yegeney mentioned, the emulate MMB should not lie outside the keyboard prefs. Maybe it makes sense to create a laptop specific keymap. There are "only" 32 shortcuts with the MMB :D. Should be doable.
Maybe we could even change the emulate MMB feature so that it only changes the keyboard config and does not override the key event handling.

Yeah, totally get the points. I also like the MMB when I have a mouse available, but sometimes I only have my laptop at hand. As Yegeney mentioned, the emulate MMB should not lie outside the keyboard prefs. Maybe it makes sense to create a laptop specific keymap. There are "only" 32 shortcuts with the MMB :D. Should be doable. Maybe we could even change the emulate MMB feature so that it only changes the keyboard config and does not override the key event handling.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2024-02-27 05:17:10 +01:00

Laptop specific keymap will disallow to transfer keymaps between devices, so you will have to configure them from scrach each time.

Using Alt+RMB as an optional alternative instead of Alt+LMB for emulating MMB seems to be a viable solution which is much easier to achieve (such a shortcut conflicts only with stencil controls, so such a collision could be pretty easy to solve)

Laptop specific keymap will disallow to transfer keymaps between devices, so you will have to configure them from scrach each time. Using Alt+RMB as an optional alternative instead of Alt+LMB for emulating MMB seems to be a viable solution which is much easier to achieve (such a shortcut conflicts only with stencil controls, so such a collision could be pretty easy to solve)

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"Emulate 3 Button Mouse" conflicts with ALT left click, for instance to disable multipe modifiers on multiple objects #109484