Insert keyframe wrong with cycle-aware keying after deleting end frame #111322

New Issue

tj2n497vxdq1ui · 2023-08-20T15:45:02+02:00

tj2n497vxdq1ui commented

2023-08-20 15:45:02 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Linux-6.4.6-arch1-1-x86_64-with-glibc2.37 64 Bits, X11 UI
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 535.86.05

Blender Version
Broken: version: 3.6.0, branch: makepkg (modified), commit date: 2023-06-27 08:08, hash: c7fc78b81ecb

Short description of error
I have an action with manual frame range, 1 to 11, with cyclic animation checked. I have cycle-aware keying on.

I'm not sure exactly when the bug starts, but eventually adding a frame at time 9 creates the keyframe at frame 4 again.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

I'm not sure exactly when the issue started, but roughly

Cube
Insert frame at time 1
Turn overlay action into layer (stack?) action with the down icon button
Set up manual frame range 1-11, cyclic
Turn on cycle-aware keying
Insert another frame at time 6, blender automagically adds a frame at time 11 to match the frame at time 1
Delete the frame at time 11
Move to time 9 and insert frame

7 seems to be the key. Additionally, it's impossible to add a new frame at time 11. The issue persists after closing and re-opening.
The issue disappears when cycle-aware keying is off, but comes back if I turn it back on.

I didn't try a daily build, but I searched issues to see if anything similar was reported and found nothing.

**System Information** Operating system: Linux-6.4.6-arch1-1-x86_64-with-glibc2.37 64 Bits, X11 UI Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 535.86.05 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 3.6.0, branch: makepkg (modified), commit date: 2023-06-27 08:08, hash: `c7fc78b81ecb` **Short description of error** I have an action with manual frame range, 1 to 11, with cyclic animation checked. I have cycle-aware keying on. I'm not sure exactly when the bug starts, but eventually adding a frame at time 9 creates the keyframe at frame 4 again. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** I'm not sure exactly when the issue started, but roughly 1. Cube 2. Insert frame at time 1 3. Turn overlay action into layer (stack?) action with the down icon button 4. Set up manual frame range 1-11, cyclic 5. Turn on cycle-aware keying 6. Insert another frame at time 6, blender automagically adds a frame at time 11 to match the frame at time 1 7. Delete the frame at time 11 8. Move to time 9 and insert frame 7 seems to be the key. Additionally, it's impossible to add a new frame at time 11. The issue persists after closing and re-opening. The issue disappears when cycle-aware keying is off, but comes back if I turn it back on. I didn't try a daily build, but I searched issues to see if anything similar was reported and found nothing.

bug1.blend

898 KiB

tj2n497vxdq1ui added the

labels 2023-08-20 15:45:02 +02:00

tj2n497vxdq1ui commented

2023-08-20 16:23:48 +02:00

I played around a little more and it seems like the cycle-aware keying is based on the start and end frame per channel rather than the action start-end frame. If some channels have a keyframe at 11 and some have their last keyframe at 6, inserting a frame will create keyframes at 4 or 9 differently per channel.

I can understand how this is consistent with other rules, but I can't believe this is the intended UX and it makes it impossible to re-add the end frame so I'm leaving it as a bug report.

I played around a little more and it seems like the cycle-aware keying is based on the start and end frame per channel rather than the action start-end frame. If some channels have a keyframe at 11 and some have their last keyframe at 6, inserting a frame will create keyframes at 4 or 9 differently per channel. I can understand how this is consistent with other rules, but I can't believe this is the intended UX and it makes it impossible to re-add the end frame so I'm leaving it as a bug report.

tj2n497vxdq1ui commented

2023-08-20 16:26:18 +02:00

#54724 is probably related but since this is about released features I think it makes sense as a separate issue.

tj2n497vxdq1ui referenced this issue

2023-08-20 16:33:01 +02:00

Workflow improvements for creating Animation Loops #54724

tj2n497vxdq1ui commented

2023-08-20 17:00:34 +02:00

I was playing some more, and this appears to be inconsistent depending on some internal state.

When you have a single frame, creating a frame after the last frame, the new frame is created and blender automatically creates an end frame at the end time of the action frame range
When you have two frames (before enabling manual range + cycle), creating a frame after the last frame creates the new frame but not the end frame
If you delete the second frame, it goes back to creating the end frame automatically on the next frame you create
If you manually create the end frame then delete the end frame (back to 1 frame), creating a new frame (ex at frame 6) causes blender to create the end frame
If you create a second frame and blender creates the end frame, then you delete both frames, then create a new frame at 6, blender creates the end frame again
Only if you create a non-end frame, blender automatically creates the end frame, you delete it, then create a new frame after your second frame does it not create the end frame and insert the new frame in the existing range

I was playing some more, and this appears to be inconsistent depending on some internal state. - When you have a single frame, creating a frame after the last frame, the new frame is created _and_ blender automatically creates an end frame at the end time of the action frame range - When you have two frames (before enabling manual range + cycle), creating a frame after the last frame creates the new frame but not the end frame - If you delete the second frame, it goes back to creating the end frame automatically on the next frame you create - If you manually create the end frame then delete the end frame (back to 1 frame), creating a new frame (ex at frame 6) causes blender to create the end frame - If you create a second frame and blender creates the end frame, then you delete both frames, then create a new frame at 6, blender creates the end frame again - Only if you create a non-end frame, blender automatically creates the end frame, you delete it, then create a new frame after your second frame does it not create the end frame and insert the new frame in the existing range

Pratik Borhade commented

2023-12-14 08:16:32 +01:00

Thanks for the report. I can confirm. Looks like behavior has changed in 4.1, need to check it.

Pratik Borhade added

and removed

labels 2023-12-14 08:16:59 +01:00

Christoph Lendenfeld commented

2024-01-09 17:19:24 +01:00

I am going to close this issue, since the feature is working as intended.
However that doesn't mean it's not a valid issue. The cyclic animation system is overly complex, hard to find/use and easy to break as a user as well as a developer.
We can hopefully come up with a better design with the new animation datamodel.

Just linking the original design task for cyclic animations for further reading
#54724: Workflow improvements for creating Animation Loops

@PratikPB2123 there is an issue with cycle aware keying in 4.1
I have a fix lined up but it needs other PRs to go through first
#116943: WIP: Fix: Issue with Cycle aware keying when inserting second key

I am going to close this issue, since the feature is working as intended. However that doesn't mean it's not a valid issue. The cyclic animation system is overly complex, hard to find/use and easy to break as a user as well as a developer. We can hopefully come up with a better design with the new animation datamodel. Just linking the original design task for cyclic animations for further reading [#54724: Workflow improvements for creating Animation Loops](https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/issues/54724) @PratikPB2123 there is an issue with cycle aware keying in 4.1 I have a fix lined up but it needs other PRs to go through first [#116943: WIP: Fix: Issue with Cycle aware keying when inserting second key](https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/pulls/116943)

Christoph Lendenfeld closed this issue

2024-01-09 17:19:27 +01:00

Blender Bot added

and removed

labels 2024-01-09 17:19:30 +01:00

Pratik Borhade commented

2024-01-10 05:30:31 +01:00