Blender UI flickering when rendering in 3DView or final --MacOS M2-- #114954

New Issue

Guido · 2023-11-16T04:28:40+01:00

Guido commented

2023-11-16 04:28:40 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: macOS-14.1.1-arm64-arm-64bit 64 Bits
Graphics card: Metal API Apple M2 Max 1.2

Blender Version
Broken: version: 4.0.0, branch: blender-v4.0-release, commit date: 2023-11-13 17:26, hash: 878f71061b8e
Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected)

Short description of error
When opening blender the UI is flickering (border of the application and text)
The same when in rendered 3dview or compositor with image editor + render result,
while rendering and even when finished.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Open blender 4.0 silicon with a Mac M2 and a scene of your choice.
Look for the UI for flickering or move the mouse as seen in the video.

For example: Render a noisy scene and then watch the noise distribution in the scene after the render is done
and then move the mouse around the UI. You should see more and then less noise while it is flickering.

PS: WHEN I start screen recording in MacOS Sonoma (shift+cmd+5) the issue is gone.
That's the reason I had to film this via my mobile phone !!

Also with all other blender versions I have installed since v 3.2, this issue isn't there.

**System Information** Operating system: macOS-14.1.1-arm64-arm-64bit 64 Bits Graphics card: Metal API Apple M2 Max 1.2 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 4.0.0, branch: blender-v4.0-release, commit date: 2023-11-13 17:26, hash: `878f71061b8e` Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected) **Short description of error** When opening blender the UI is flickering (border of the application and text) The same when in rendered 3dview or compositor with image editor + render result, while rendering and even when finished. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Open blender 4.0 silicon with a Mac M2 and a scene of your choice. Look for the UI for flickering or move the mouse as seen in the video. For example: Render a noisy scene and then watch the noise distribution in the scene after the render is done and then move the mouse around the UI. You should see more and then less noise while it is flickering. PS: WHEN I start screen recording in MacOS Sonoma (shift+cmd+5) the issue is gone. That's the reason I had to film this via my mobile phone !! Also with all other blender versions I have installed since v 3.2, this issue isn't there.

Screenshot 2023-11-16 at 4.08.08 am.jpg

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VID_20231116_035909-small.mp4

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Guido added the

labels 2023-11-16 04:28:41 +01:00

Alaska commented

2023-11-16 08:51:28 +01:00

I personally can not reproduce this issue with the system listed below. The main differences I can notice between my test and your test are:

I'm on macOS 14.0 while you're on 14.1.1. Maybe a GPU driver change in 14.1+ is causing this?
You're on a M2 Max while I'm on a M1 Pro. It's highly unlikely that this will be a M2 Max specific issue, but it might be.
You're running different background apps than I am. It's highly unlikely, but possible that one of them is causing this issue (E.G. An app with access to the accessibilities services function of MacOS may be behaving weird).
Maybe something else?

From looking at the video, it kind of looks like the pixels inside the Blender window are shifting left or right a fraction of a pixel.

I assumme you've done all the basic trouble shooting steps already? Load Factory Settings in Blender and test again. Reboot your computer and test again. If not, please do so and see if it helps.

If it doesn't, then I don't know what to do. Wait until someone else is able to reproduce your issue? Or try investigating the issue yourself (E.G. Does Blender 4.1 also have this issue? Try older versions of 4.0 to try and figure out roughly when this issue started.)

System Information
Operating system: macOS-14.0-arm64-arm-64bit 64 Bits
Graphics card: Metal API Apple M1 Pro 1.2
Blender version: 4.0.0, branch: blender-v4.0-release, commit date: 2023-11-13 17:26, hash: 878f71061b8e

I personally can not reproduce this issue with the system listed below. The main differences I can notice between my test and your test are: 1. I'm on macOS 14.0 while you're on 14.1.1. Maybe a GPU driver change in 14.1+ is causing this? 2. You're on a M2 Max while I'm on a M1 Pro. It's highly unlikely that this will be a M2 Max specific issue, but it might be. 3. You're running different background apps than I am. It's highly unlikely, but possible that one of them is causing this issue (E.G. An app with access to the accessibilities services function of MacOS may be behaving weird). 4. Maybe something else? From looking at the video, it kind of looks like the pixels inside the Blender window are shifting left or right a fraction of a pixel. I assumme you've done all the basic trouble shooting steps already? Load Factory Settings in Blender and test again. Reboot your computer and test again. If not, please do so and see if it helps. If it doesn't, then I don't know what to do. Wait until someone else is able to reproduce your issue? Or try investigating the issue yourself (E.G. Does Blender 4.1 also have this issue? Try older versions of 4.0 to try and figure out roughly when this issue started.) **System Information** Operating system: macOS-14.0-arm64-arm-64bit 64 Bits Graphics card: Metal API Apple M1 Pro 1.2 Blender version: 4.0.0, branch: blender-v4.0-release, commit date: 2023-11-13 17:26, hash: `878f71061b8e`

Guido commented

2023-11-16 11:08:04 +01:00

As seen in the video, it's Blender 4.0 with factory settings.
Reboot of MacOS doesn't change the behaviour.
Blender 4.1a has the same issues
Background apps don't count because all other blender versions work fine as stated.
Why not with any other app on my machine.

When seeing the video, the border of the blender app is blinking / flickering.
And when rendering in the viewport and final, with each sample / samples that get the view updated it blinks / flickers.
Flickering also happens when moving with the mouse over the borders between for example viewport and outline etc.
When you see the noise blinking / flickering, it looks more like, when the last samples get viewed and then the final render, then the last samples, then the final...etc.

This is happening since 4.0a to 4.0 release + the same for 4.1.
I didn't post a bugreport back then, because I thought it's in alpha/beta unreleased versions, and didn't want to bother you, until release!!!

Since Sergey mentioned somewhere that there are differences between M1 & M2 (pro/max/ultra), it's likely to be the case that that M2 Max causes it. Also there are differences between MacBooks and desktop, as far as I know.

So then why is it only happening "since" 4.x versions.
Maybe we should ask our Apple dev. @Michael-Jones

I tried all possible with no luck. I did definitely everything to nail down this issue.
And if it is anything with my macOS setup, it's a blender problem then, because all other apps on my machine work fine and the same way as all blender versions starting with blender 3.x !!!

I also disabled / changed options (combinations)Kernel Optimisation & MetalRT

And please do me a favour, when I explicit say on what machine and setup, then you can test it, but don't blow up this reports until you tested it on the exact same setup as stated. This is the same as when you would test it on windows. Doesn't help!!
Also you said in your initiated talk on blender chat coders, that I should mention you when I think it's mac specific.
And I didn't, for a / this reason.
(Thanks in advance)

And we know that M1,M2,M3(pro/max/ultra) are all different chipsets and drivers.
For example my machine is able to handle Metal 3.0, Blender comes with 2.2 as far as the 4.0 release video states. (different graphics card if you so will !!)

AND when blender foundation wan't bugreports and gathers the system information, it makes no sense to test it on different systems.

- As seen in the video, it's Blender 4.0 with factory settings. - Reboot of MacOS doesn't change the behaviour. - Blender 4.1a has the same issues - Background apps don't count because all other blender versions work fine as stated. - Why not with any other app on my machine. When seeing the video, the border of the blender app is blinking / flickering. And when rendering in the viewport and final, with each sample / samples that get the view updated it blinks / flickers. Flickering also happens when moving with the mouse over the borders between for example viewport and outline etc. When you see the noise blinking / flickering, it looks more like, when the last samples get viewed and then the final render, then the last samples, then the final...etc. This is happening since 4.0a to 4.0 release + the same for 4.1. I didn't post a bugreport back then, because I thought it's in alpha/beta unreleased versions, and didn't want to bother you, until release!!! Since Sergey mentioned somewhere that there are differences between M1 & M2 (pro/max/ultra), it's likely to be the case that that M2 Max causes it. Also there are differences between MacBooks and desktop, as far as I know. So then why is it only happening "since" 4.x versions. Maybe we should ask our Apple dev. @Michael-Jones I tried all possible with no luck. I did definitely everything to nail down this issue. And if it is anything with my macOS setup, it's a blender problem then, because all other apps on my machine work fine and the same way as all blender versions starting with blender 3.x !!! I also disabled / changed options (combinations)Kernel Optimisation & MetalRT And please do me a favour, when I explicit say on what machine and setup, then you can test it, but don't blow up this reports until you tested it on the exact same setup as stated. This is the same as when you would test it on windows. Doesn't help!! Also you said in your initiated talk on blender chat coders, that I should mention you when I think it's mac specific. And I didn't, for a / this reason. (Thanks in advance) And we know that M1,M2,M3(pro/max/ultra) are all different chipsets and drivers. For example my machine is able to handle Metal 3.0, Blender comes with 2.2 as far as the 4.0 release video states. (different graphics card if you so will !!) AND when blender foundation wan't bugreports and gathers the system information, it makes no sense to test it on different systems.

Alaska commented

2023-11-16 12:15:41 +01:00

This is happening since 4.0a to 4.0 release + the same for 4.1.

Do you know/remember what version of Blender (commit and/or date) you were using when this first started happening? Along with that, do you know/remember the last version of Blender (commit and/or date) that didn't have this issue? Both of these could help in figuring out the issue.

I didn't post a bugreport back then, because I thought it's in alpha/beta unreleased versions, and didn't want to bother you, until release!!!

In the future, we would prefer it if you made a bug report as soon as you can/want too after discovering it.

Edit: A bunch of stuff has been removed from this comment as it's not helpful to the triaging of this issue, and has been attached as a .txt file just in case it's disappearance confuses anyone.

> This is happening since 4.0a to 4.0 release + the same for 4.1. Do you know/remember what version of Blender (commit and/or date) you were using when this first started happening? Along with that, do you know/remember the last version of Blender (commit and/or date) that didn't have this issue? Both of these could help in figuring out the issue. > I didn't post a bugreport back then, because I thought it's in alpha/beta unreleased versions, and didn't want to bother you, until release!!! In the future, we would prefer it if you made a bug report as soon as you can/want too after discovering it. --- Edit: A bunch of stuff has been removed from this comment as it's not helpful to the triaging of this issue, and has been attached as a .txt file just in case it's disappearance confuses anyone.

Extra information from comment.txt

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Guido commented

2023-11-16 12:42:52 +01:00

Note: I, and the Blender foundation, are not requesting access to your computer, and I don't believe they have asked anyone in the past or plan to do so in the near future. So please don't send your computer to the Blender foundation.

??? What the heck are you talking about.

Did you read / understand what I wrote. I don't think so !

PLEASE leave this report with your funky ideas.
In the last post I asked you to not blow up bugreports like you do here. Thanks for NOTHING then!
I'm doing this not the first time, but will definitely be the last if you continue bothering me with answers like this.

AS STATED ABOVE I TESTED ALL OF IT, BEFORE 'YOU' EVEN GOT THE IDEA !
And I didn't test it in 5 minutes. I spend several days, nailing it down with other reports and information.
Unlike you, not following the mentioned circumstances and advice.
In other words: I don't wan't you to bother / react to my bugreports anymore, if you can't fullfill the basic requirements in those cases, regarding MacOS.

Also I basically told you this two times in the chat BEFORE at blender coders, you initiated!

Better leave it to those who can.

THANKS in ADVANCE.

> Note: I, and the Blender foundation, are not requesting access to your computer, and I don't believe they have asked anyone in the past or plan to do so in the near future. So please don't send your computer to the Blender foundation. ??? What the heck are you talking about. **Did you read / understand what I wrote. I don't think so !** _PLEASE leave this report with your funky ideas._ In the last post I asked you to not blow up bugreports like you do here. Thanks for NOTHING then! I'm doing this not the first time, but will definitely be the last if you continue bothering me with answers like this. AS STATED ABOVE I TESTED ALL OF IT, BEFORE 'YOU' EVEN GOT THE IDEA ! And I didn't test it in 5 minutes. I spend several days, nailing it down with other reports and information. Unlike you, not following the mentioned circumstances and advice. In other words: I don't wan't you to bother / react to my bugreports anymore, if you can't fullfill the basic requirements in those cases, regarding MacOS. Also I basically told you this two times in the chat BEFORE at blender coders, you initiated! Better leave it to those who can. THANKS in ADVANCE.

Alaska commented

2023-11-16 13:01:47 +01:00

This is happening since 4.0a to 4.0 release + the same for 4.1.

Do you know/remember what version of Blender (commit and/or date) you were using when this first started happening? Along with that, do you know/remember the last version of Blender (commit and/or date) that didn't have this issue? Both of these could help in figuring out what caused the issue.

AS STATED ABOVE I TESTED ALL OF IT, BEFORE 'YOU' EVEN GOT THE IDEA !

I'm sorry, I do not know exactly what you did and did not do unless you tell me. So some suggestions are based on the fact I do not know what you did and I'm not you.

> This is happening since 4.0a to 4.0 release + the same for 4.1. Do you know/remember what version of Blender (commit and/or date) you were using when this first started happening? Along with that, do you know/remember the last version of Blender (commit and/or date) that didn't have this issue? Both of these could help in figuring out what caused the issue. > AS STATED ABOVE I TESTED ALL OF IT, BEFORE 'YOU' EVEN GOT THE IDEA ! I'm sorry, I do not know exactly what you did and did not do unless you tell me. So some suggestions are based on the fact I do not know what you did and I'm not you.

Guido commented

2023-11-16 13:49:08 +01:00

AS STATED ABOVE I TESTED ALL OF IT, BEFORE 'YOU' EVEN GOT THE IDEA !

I'm sorry, I do not know exactly what you did and did not do unless you tell me. So some suggestions are based on the fact I do not know what you did and I'm not you.

I told you in the bugreport and in the chat already how I test and have tested in this case! (enough of small talk)

3.6.5 is fine. (Downloaded via blender.org)
3.6.6 from 10 min. ago is fine (Downloaded via blender.org)
4.0.1 from 10 min. ago is not (Downloaded via blender.org)
4.1 from 10 min. ago is not (compiled)

the new video is with 4.0.1 from 10 min. ago !

> AS STATED ABOVE I TESTED ALL OF IT, BEFORE 'YOU' EVEN GOT THE IDEA ! > > I'm sorry, I do not know exactly what you did and did not do unless you tell me. So some suggestions are based on the fact I do not know what you did and I'm not you. I told you in the bugreport and in the chat already how I test and have tested in this case! (enough of small talk) - 3.6.5 is fine. (Downloaded via blender.org) - 3.6.6 from 10 min. ago is fine (Downloaded via blender.org) - 4.0.1 from 10 min. ago **is not** (Downloaded via blender.org) - 4.1 from 10 min. ago **is not** (compiled) the new video is with 4.0.1 from 10 min. ago !

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Alaska commented

2023-11-16 20:15:02 +01:00

Sorry, when I asked what versions of Blender worked and didn't work, I meant the versions of Blender 4.0 Alpha. You said you first discovered this issue some time during the Blender 4.0 Alpha stage, so presumably there is a version of 4.0 Alpha that worked, and a version of 4.0 Alpha that doesn't. Do you know what these versions are?

Guido commented

2023-11-16 20:41:05 +01:00

As far as I know from the start. The first.
But I can't leave all versions of a major version on my machine.
The only thing I can remember is that I thought, better use 3.6.5 the next time until it's fixed.
Because sometimes the new versions bring issues and then disapear after a few days.

And it wasn't the next days that 3.6.6 came out. So somewhere inbetween.

As far as I know from the start. The first. But I can't leave all versions of a major version on my machine. The only thing I can remember is that I thought, better use 3.6.5 the next time until it's fixed. Because sometimes the new versions bring issues and then disapear after a few days. And it wasn't the next days that 3.6.6 came out. So somewhere inbetween.

Alaska commented

2023-11-16 21:31:39 +01:00

I'm confused. So the issue was in the first version of Blender 4.0 Alpha (or close to it), and you thought "Better use 3.6.5"?
There's a huge time gap between the first 4.0 Alpha version (May 17th) and a 4.0 that was out while 3.6.5 was out (October 19th).

So just double checking. Did you discover this issue in a early Blender 4.0 Alpha, or a Blender 4.0 Beta in October? If you don't remember when this issue started, then we can stop trying to investigate which commit caused it.

Also, I just want to bring up the possibility of it being a background app interfering with things again.

You mentioned earlier that starting a screen recording temporarily fixed the issue. This lets us know that things outside of Blender can influence the rendering of Blender.

So it's entirely possible that there is a background app that you have that is interfering with a new Blender 4.0 rendering feature. And it would be helpful if you could identify what background app is causing that issue so we can use it in testing to figure out how to fix it.

Sorry if I'm asking you to re-test something you've already tested. It's not clear to me if you've tested background apps or not.

Also, it's just a possibility that there is a background app interfering with things. This may not be the cause at all.

I'm confused. So the issue was in the first version of Blender 4.0 Alpha (or close to it), and you thought "Better use 3.6.5"? There's a huge time gap between the first 4.0 Alpha version (May 17th) and a 4.0 that was out while 3.6.5 was out (October 19th). So just double checking. Did you discover this issue in a early Blender 4.0 Alpha, or a Blender 4.0 Beta in October? If you don't remember when this issue started, then we can stop trying to investigate which commit caused it. --- Also, I just want to bring up the possibility of it being a background app interfering with things again. You mentioned earlier that starting a screen recording temporarily fixed the issue. This lets us know that things outside of Blender can influence the rendering of Blender. So it's entirely possible that there is a background app that you have that is interfering with a new Blender 4.0 rendering feature. And it would be helpful if you could identify what background app is causing that issue so we can use it in testing to figure out how to fix it. Sorry if I'm asking you to re-test something you've already tested. It's not clear to me if you've tested background apps or not. Also, it's just a possibility that there is a background app interfering with things. This may not be the cause at all.

Guido commented

2023-11-16 22:25:55 +01:00

I'm not testing 20+ versions to proof your Idea! I have work to do besides this.

AND for the last time:

AS STATED ABOVE I TESTED ALL OF IT, BEFORE 'YOU' EVEN GOT THE IDEA !
And I didn't test it in 5 minutes. I spend several days, nailing it down with other reports and information.

Means nothing else than, that I quit every Background App via Activity monitor, one by one, to see if it makes a difference.
And this took several days to catch every posibility.

And the other thing is when publishing software: "Saying because this app is running on your system, so our software isn't working ...your fault" is a bit....

And the OLD question comes back to my mind: Why has non of the previous versions and alphas/betas BEFORE 'blender 4.0alpha' a problem!??

I have to say that it's starting to .... me off. Just leave it to someone who got a better idea / knowledge in this area.
I did way more than everone else filing a bugreport.
And you couldn't test it this as long because of the lack of this M2 but try to nail it on BG apps without any trace.
Also I haven't heard of any kind of BG app, that interfered with macos blender since 2.9.3.

Please read this and the previous posts carefully, before I get mad. I mean it.
Otherwise I will do everything to delete this bugreport. And then reopen it with the hope you're not seeing it!

This was another day of wasting time. I had this behaviour like yours before and since then I make very sure for myself I tested f..... everything to not get in those situations like this again. But doesn't help in your case to just write it down.
You stick to your thinking, fine! But then please not in my bugreports.

Just direct it to someone else like sergey, brecht or m. jones, who got a better understanding.
I haven't counted but I'm sure I said this to you now more than 3 times, including the blender-coders chat.

Thanks in advance for understanding.

Bye

I'm not testing 20+ versions to proof your Idea! I have work to do besides this. AND for the last time: > AS STATED ABOVE I TESTED ALL OF IT, BEFORE 'YOU' EVEN GOT THE IDEA ! > And I didn't test it in 5 minutes. I spend several days, nailing it down with other reports and information. Means nothing else than, that I quit every Background App via Activity monitor, one by one, to see if it makes a difference. And this took several days to catch every posibility. And the other thing is when publishing software: "Saying because this app is running on your system, so our software isn't working ...your fault" is a bit.... And the OLD question comes back to my mind: Why has non of the previous versions and alphas/betas BEFORE 'blender 4.0alpha' a problem!?? I have to say that it's starting to .... me off. Just leave it to someone who got a better idea / knowledge in this area. I did way more than everone else filing a bugreport. And you couldn't test it this as long because of the lack of this M2 but try to nail it on BG apps without any trace. Also I haven't heard of any kind of BG app, that interfered with macos blender since 2.9.3. Please read this and the previous posts carefully, before I get mad. I mean it. Otherwise I will do everything to delete this bugreport. And then reopen it with the hope you're not seeing it! This was another day of wasting time. I had this behaviour like yours before and since then I make very sure for myself I tested f..... everything to not get in those situations like this again. But doesn't help in your case to just write it down. You stick to your thinking, fine! But then please not in my bugreports. Just direct it to someone else like sergey, brecht or m. jones, who got a better understanding. I haven't counted but I'm sure I said this to you now more than 3 times, including the blender-coders chat. Thanks in advance for understanding. Bye

Alaska commented

2023-11-16 23:08:48 +01:00

I have asked the triaging team if someone with a M2, M2 Pro, or M2 Max mac can test this bug report. I will leave further testing and questioning to them, assuming there is anyone with a M2, M2 Pro, or M2 Max equiped Mac (The triaging team is made up of some Blender developers and some volunteers, it's entirely possible that no one in that group has a M2, M2 Pro, or M2 Max equiped Mac, so if no one else from the triaging team tests this, then that's probably why).

Thomas Dinges commented

2023-11-17 08:25:04 +01:00

@Nurb2Kea A friendly reminder that we have a code of conduct, valid for all Blender platforms.

To quote the first part: Disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour or personal attacks.

This is an official warning.

@Nurb2Kea A friendly reminder that we have a [code of conduct](https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/CodeOfConduct), valid for all Blender platforms. To quote the first part: Disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour or personal attacks. This is an official warning.

Guido commented

2023-11-17 10:04:42 +01:00

@ThomasDinges
I made it very clear several times including in the chat from blender-coders with Alaska, that it can not be, after days of testing and asked him to leave this report alone, because he has his standpoint that was more or less proofed wrong. I also asked him to contact others with better knowledge in this area, several times.
He continued bothering me with the same, his standpoint.
At last he decided to follow my advice to ask someone else.

If you call this poor behaviour or personal attacks from my side, then what do you call Alaskas behaviour, when you read the whole lot.
If you like I have a screenshot of the conversation at blender-coders chat.

If I get an official warning for this from you, consider me off the last 2 years and future bugreporting.
I personally felt attacked yesterday by Alaska, not leaving me and this report alone and ask someone else for help, even after several times of asking for it + delivering more and more evidence to ask someone else.

regards

Guido

PS: And I proofed myself, that I delivered good bugreports that are in most cases right, as of the comments of other developers asking me to continue with my impotant bugreports.

@ThomasDinges I made it very clear several times including in the chat from blender-coders with Alaska, that it can not be, after days of testing and asked him to leave this report alone, because he has his standpoint that was more or less proofed wrong. I also asked him to contact others with better knowledge in this area, several times. He continued bothering me with the same, his standpoint. At last he decided to follow my advice to ask someone else. If you call this poor behaviour or personal attacks from my side, then what do you call Alaskas behaviour, when you read the whole lot. If you like I have a screenshot of the conversation at blender-coders chat. If I get an official warning for this from you, consider me off the last 2 years and future bugreporting. I personally felt attacked yesterday by Alaska, not leaving me and this report alone and ask someone else for help, even after several times of asking for it + delivering more and more evidence to ask someone else. regards Guido PS: And I proofed myself, that I delivered good bugreports that are in most cases right, as of the comments of other developers asking me to continue with my impotant bugreports.

Philipp Oeser commented

2024-03-19 16:09:30 +01:00

Cannot repro here

**System Information**
Operating system: macOS-14.4-arm64-arm-64bit 64 Bits
Graphics card: Metal API Apple M2 1.2
version: 4.0.2, branch: blender-v4.0-release, commit date: 2023-12-05 07:41, hash: `9be62e85b727`

Total shot in the dark: this does not improve if you make header and region backgrounds fully opaque for the 3DView in Preferences?

Cannot repro here ``` **System Information** Operating system: macOS-14.4-arm64-arm-64bit 64 Bits Graphics card: Metal API Apple M2 1.2 version: 4.0.2, branch: blender-v4.0-release, commit date: 2023-12-05 07:41, hash: `9be62e85b727` ``` Total shot in the dark: this does not improve if you make header and region backgrounds fully opaque for the 3DView in Preferences?

Philipp Oeser added the

Platform

macOS

label 2024-03-26 15:46:05 +01:00

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Blender UI flickering when rendering in 3DView or final --MacOS M2-- #114954