Outliner on "Blender File" display mode to show use count + fake user column #118655

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Dalai Felinto · 2024-02-23T11:35:06+01:00

Dalai Felinto commented

2024-02-23 11:35:06 +01:00

I would like to propose these improvement to the outliner. They could be tackled one-by-one.

When in the "Blender File" Display Mode ...

Show the user count (when != 1) in a little circle by the data-blocks
Add a new column on the right that shows the 'F' for fake-user (it should be clickable or even draggable).

The column should be hidden by default, but toggable via the filter menu (which will need to become a menu, right now is just a toggle button).

The initial use-case for this is for animators to be able to manage their actions when bringing them from other files. But I can see this being useful for other data-block as well.

Mockup of 1 + 2:

Bonus thoughts:

3. The datablocks with more than 1 user could be expandable to show which data-block is using them. That even makes it more aligned with the idea that numbers in the Outliner are to show how many elements are nested inside it.

See Brecht's comment as one of the replies. There are other options to explore. Either way, I would first get 1 and 2 in main before worrying about the 3.

I believe the API we have supports this (the reverse path to who uses the data-block). But you could see this part as more of an exploration option. If it feels it would take too much time is worth re-evaluating it.

I would like to propose these improvement to the outliner. They could be tackled one-by-one. When in the "Blender File" Display Mode ... 1. Show the user count (when != 1) in a little circle by the data-blocks 2. Add a new column on the right that shows the 'F' for fake-user (it should be clickable or even draggable). The column should be hidden by default, but toggable via the filter menu (which will need to become a menu, right now is just a toggle button). The initial use-case for this is for animators to be able to manage their actions when bringing them from other files. But I can see this being useful for other data-block as well. Mockup of 1 + 2: ![image](/attachments/eb46ba18-77ed-4f99-bf97-160ab3cbea31) --------------------------------------------------------- Bonus thoughts: ~~3. The datablocks with more than 1 user could be expandable to show which data-block is using them. That even makes it more aligned with the idea that numbers in the Outliner are to show how many elements are nested inside it.~~ - See Brecht's comment as one of the replies. There are other options to explore. Either way, I would first get 1 and 2 in main before worrying about the 3. I believe the API we have supports this (the reverse path to who uses the data-block). But you could see this part as more of an exploration option. If it feels it would take too much time is worth re-evaluating it.

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Dalai Felinto added the

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label 2024-02-23 11:35:06 +01:00

Dalai Felinto added this to the User Interface project 2024-02-23 11:35:08 +01:00

Harley Acheson was assigned by Dalai Felinto

2024-02-23 11:45:21 +01:00

Nika Kutsniashvili commented

2024-02-23 11:52:07 +01:00

Yes!

Number of users and fake user shield is already shown in "Orphaned Data" mode, so probably is portable

Also size for data-blocks that have it (images, sounds, movie clips) would be very helpful.
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/q250/

Yes! Number of users and fake user shield is already shown in "Orphaned Data" mode, so probably is portable ![image](/attachments/f5ab309f-85ca-42eb-9985-319d2b5be14f) Also size for data-blocks that have it (images, sounds, movie clips) would be very helpful. https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/q250/

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Philipp Oeser commented

2024-02-23 12:17:38 +01:00

I believe the API we have supports this (the reverse path to who uses the data-block)

Havent checked, but at least python API has it:

bpy.data.user_map(subset=(bpy.data.actions['Jumping'], ))

https://docs.blender.org/api/4.2/bpy.types.BlendData.html#bpy.types.BlendData.user_map

>I believe the API we have supports this (the reverse path to who uses the data-block) Havent checked, but at least python API has it: `bpy.data.user_map(subset=(bpy.data.actions['Jumping'], ))` https://docs.blender.org/api/4.2/bpy.types.BlendData.html#bpy.types.BlendData.user_map

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2024-02-23 15:46:44 +01:00

The datablocks with more than 1 user could be expandable to show which data-block is using them. That even makes it more aligned with the idea that numbers in the Outliner are to show how many elements are nested inside it.

I don't think the users should show in the outliner hierarchy. For other cases of nesting the relation goes in the other direction. I would rather imagine it in a tooltip or menu when clicking the user count.

> The datablocks with more than 1 user could be expandable to show which data-block is using them. That even makes it more aligned with the idea that numbers in the Outliner are to show how many elements are nested inside it. I don't think the users should show in the outliner hierarchy. For other cases of nesting the relation goes in the other direction. I would rather imagine it in a tooltip or menu when clicking the user count.

Harley Acheson commented

2024-02-23 17:31:49 +01:00

Not sure about showing the user count as shown in the mockup, since we do that to show number of enclosed list items, including on that page.

If you collapse "Actions" I think it would then show "Actions" followed by an icon for action with little 3 at its bottom right. But that would indicate the number of actions, not the number of users. Then you'd open that up and each would be indicating a different thing in the same way. That sounds confusing.

I also don't like the indication there of 0,234, skipping 1. I understand the reasoning that 1 is the normal case, but it still doesn't explain itself well. Perhaps do show 2,3, etc skipping 1, but treat 0 as more special. Perhaps showing it as a red "X" or similar. But again, I don't like the idea of using that number for both user count and item count without a way to distinguish the two.

My only proposed solution is to just show the usercount like we do on the "Orphan Data" page. That does show the usercount unambiguously, although looking a bit redundant on one.

Not sure about showing the user count as shown in the mockup, since we do that to show number of enclosed list items, including on that page. If you collapse "Actions" I think it would then show "Actions" followed by an icon for action with little 3 at its bottom right. But that would indicate the number of actions, not the number of users. Then you'd open that up and each would be indicating a different thing in the same way. That sounds confusing. I also don't like the indication there of 0,234, skipping 1. I understand the reasoning that 1 is the normal case, but it still doesn't explain itself well. Perhaps do show 2,3, etc skipping 1, but treat 0 as more special. Perhaps showing it as a red "X" or similar. But again, I don't like the idea of using that number for both user count and item count without a way to distinguish the two. My only proposed solution is to just show the usercount like we do on the "Orphan Data" page. That does show the usercount unambiguously, although looking a bit redundant on one.

Harley Acheson commented

2024-02-23 17:51:15 +01:00

Something like the following might also address my dislike for the current "Orphan Data" numbering?

Something like the following might also address my dislike for the current "Orphan Data" numbering? ![image](/attachments/937409ab-63aa-44ae-b277-82ec15651cb8)

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thorn-neverwake commented

2024-02-23 17:54:43 +01:00

The column should be hidden by default

Actually, I believe you should show it by default. I don't see why hiding it would be something particularly desireable.

> The column should be hidden by default Actually, I believe you should show it by default. I don't see why hiding it would be something particularly desireable.

Brad Clark commented

2024-02-23 18:40:35 +01:00

Agree this would be nice and agree that hiding it by default doesn't seem helpful if I am in there looking for information and know to get that far, I don't need things hidden from me as a user.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2024-02-23 18:52:05 +01:00

Something like the following might also address my dislike for the current "Orphan Data" numbering?

The fake user is a button you can toggle, I'm not sure including extra information on there is right?

Personally I think it would be good if we could make the user count show a tooltip with a list of users. Not only here, but also in datablock selectors throughout the user interface. If we do that, it's not ideal to have it shared with fake user.

> Something like the following might also address my dislike for the current "Orphan Data" numbering? The fake user is a button you can toggle, I'm not sure including extra information on there is right? Personally I think it would be good if we could make the user count show a tooltip with a list of users. Not only here, but also in datablock selectors throughout the user interface. If we do that, it's not ideal to have it shared with fake user.

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Harley Acheson commented

2024-02-23 19:26:57 +01:00

Personally I think it would be good if we could make the user count show a tooltip with a list of users. Not only here, but also in datablock selectors throughout the user interface. If we do that, it's not ideal to have it shared with fake user.

That's a great idea.

The fake user is a button you can toggle, I'm not sure including extra information on there is right?

It works like a hot damn actually.

In testing I'd lean into it a bit further than we currently do and show both "0" and "1." Together it really tells the story about what is going on. And if you also change the tooltip, it seems all pretty clear.

Top shows hovering over an item with zero users, middle an item with one fake user. For uses outside of "Orphaned Data", the third shows hovering over an item with more than one user.

A PR is available, with a more thorough explanation, for testing here: #118683

> Personally I think it would be good if we could make the user count show a tooltip with a list of users. Not only here, but also in datablock selectors throughout the user interface. If we do that, it's not ideal to have it shared with fake user. That's a great idea. > The fake user is a button you can toggle, I'm not sure including extra information on there is right? It works like a hot damn actually. In testing I'd lean into it a bit further than we currently do and show both "0" and "1." Together it really tells the story about what is going on. And if you also change the tooltip, it seems all pretty clear. Top shows hovering over an item with zero users, middle an item with one fake user. For uses outside of "Orphaned Data", the third shows hovering over an item with more than one user. ![image](/attachments/3e0ae3c3-8cfa-48fb-9cbb-c5ab1895a8f4) A PR is available, with a more thorough explanation, for testing here: #118683

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thorn-neverwake commented

2024-02-23 20:40:26 +01:00

Personally I think it would be good if we could make the user count show a tooltip with a list of users. Not only here, but also in datablock selectors throughout the user interface.

Very much agreed, as this sort of situation makes zero sense unless you really understand why it says '5' and not '1'. In a much more complicated scene, it can create some stress when determining "what is ACTUALLY in use here, that I still care about?"

>Personally I think it would be good if we could make the user count show a tooltip with a list of users. Not only here, but also in datablock selectors throughout the user interface. Very much agreed, as this sort of situation makes zero sense unless you really understand why it says '5' and not '1'. In a much more complicated scene, it can create some stress when determining "what is ACTUALLY in use here, that I still care about?"

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Harley Acheson referenced this issue

2024-02-23 23:56:10 +01:00

UI: Outliner "File Mode" Manage User Count #118691

Harley Acheson commented

2024-02-24 00:09:21 +01:00

I have a PR here: #118691 but it is marked as a "demonstration" because it includes opinionated changes and some features we probably don't want to include. But pretty cool...

I have a PR here: #118691 but it is marked as a "demonstration" because it includes opinionated changes and some features we probably don't want to include. But pretty cool... ![image](/attachments/78af7aa4-3e01-4e65-b077-a523dbb77c36)

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Harley Acheson referenced this issue from a commit

2024-04-20 02:50:21 +02:00

UI: Outliner "File Mode" Manage User Count

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