EEVEE-NEXT: Some Reflections missed. #119826

New Issue

Donovane · 2024-03-23T15:58:44+01:00

Donovane commented

2024-03-23 15:58:44 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: WIN 11
Graphics card: RTX 2060 6GO

Blender Version
Broken: Blender 4.2 Alpha
Worked: None, alpha features

Short description of error
Some reflections in eevee-next are completly missed, basicaly only the light are "Reflected"

Reference image using WEBGL Sketchfab for the reflections and is completely correct here !

Even in cycles the reflection are here even is a ray-tracing ! :

Image from eevee-next (You see in the water the mill are completely missed and missing the reflections in the water.)

Maybe a re-factoring or an another method for fixing this bad boy but here isn't good for the reflection / Refraction part.
Scene used in GLTB : https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/windmill-near-water-11523012f4424ff9acc9b9a3a7d46603

Blend file in attachement for not downloading directly from sketchfab and also ready configured for eevee-next !
Video in attachement : (Added for comment of member but present the problem btw)

**System Information** Operating system: WIN 11 Graphics card: RTX 2060 6GO **Blender Version** Broken: Blender 4.2 Alpha Worked: None, alpha features **Short description of error** Some reflections in eevee-next are completly missed, basicaly only the light are "Reflected" Reference image using WEBGL Sketchfab for the reflections and is completely correct here ! ![https://i.ibb.co/MsTbKk0/Screenshot-1.png](https://i.ibb.co/MsTbKk0/Screenshot-1.png) Even in cycles the reflection are here even is a ray-tracing ! : ![https://i.ibb.co/dr8LdXy/Screenshot-3.png](https://i.ibb.co/dr8LdXy/Screenshot-3.png) Image from eevee-next (You see in the water the mill are completely missed and missing the reflections in the water.) ![https://i.ibb.co/q9mRGJy/Screenshot-2.png](https://i.ibb.co/q9mRGJy/Screenshot-2.png) Maybe a re-factoring or an another method for fixing this bad boy but here isn't good for the reflection / Refraction part. Scene used in GLTB : https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/windmill-near-water-11523012f4424ff9acc9b9a3a7d46603 Blend file in attachement for not downloading directly from sketchfab and also ready configured for eevee-next ! Video in attachement : (Added for comment of member but present the problem btw)

Broken reflection.blend

104 MiB

2024-03-24 03-02-37.mkv

38 MiB

Donovane added the

labels 2024-03-23 15:58:45 +01:00

Paweł Piotrowski commented

2024-03-24 01:50:52 +01:00

![blender_3tpBnoVPRK](/attachments/2c052417-279f-4824-886e-0d937fe5a40c)

blender_3tpBnoVPRK.jpg

336 KiB

Donovane commented

2024-03-24 03:05:21 +01:00

@Zuorion Definitively not the same result like you for the same settings....and even compared to cycles or even sketchfab render WEBGL The reflections look not food and too blurry and not " really present"

See my videos

> ![blender_3tpBnoVPRK](/attachments/2c052417-279f-4824-886e-0d937fe5a40c) @Zuorion Definitively not the same result like you for the same settings....and even compared to cycles or even sketchfab render WEBGL The reflections look not food and too blurry and not " really present" See my videos

2024-03-24 03-02-37.mkv

38 MiB

Philipp Oeser commented

2024-03-25 14:03:39 +01:00

I think we can agree that these are not "completely missed".

Dont think you can expect Cycles quality reflections with Screen tracing, for one, there is just stuff that Eevee "does not see" -- it is screen based after all -- and there is still a bit to gain in the Raytracing / Screen tracing panels settings.

To enhance, have you considered using a Plane Reflection / Light Probe ?

I think we can agree that these are not "completely missed". Dont think you can expect Cycles quality reflections with Screen tracing, for one, there is just stuff that Eevee "does not see" -- it is screen based after all -- and there is still a bit to gain in the Raytracing / Screen tracing panels settings. To enhance, have you considered using a Plane Reflection / Light Probe ?

Philipp Oeser added

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Needs Information from User

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Status

Needs Triage

labels 2024-03-25 14:03:52 +01:00

Donovane commented

2024-03-25 15:58:55 +01:00

I'm already use screen trace... not needed an light probe is purely useless and change nothing....

Philipp Oeser commented

2024-03-26 09:25:50 +01:00

This is without

This is with

So I would argue that

light probe is purely useless and change nothing....

is just wrong... dont you see a difference on your side?

This is without ![image](/attachments/80bde0e6-7c62-4f18-9261-d5566d184776) This is with ![image](/attachments/4588ff48-fb97-4c8f-a205-b54e1b8c10e0) So I would argue that >light probe is purely useless and change nothing.... is just wrong... dont you see a difference on your side?

image.png

1.9 MiB

image.png

1.9 MiB

Donovane commented

2024-03-26 09:31:45 +01:00

Go looking my video in past comment you see it !
https://projects.blender.org/attachments/c3468658-34d9-41d2-a7fd-507372b2332c
Mine is really totally different !

And in my side i don't put any lightprobe because i have the screen space tracing idk why i do use light probe with screen trace ... screen trace is invented to replace "Lightprobe" why i should be use light probe WITH screen trace is purely incoherent !

So in this terms remove simply screen tracing and use light probe volume he simply make better works than screen tric if is that i'm sorry but this implementation not looking good if is the case :/

And let me teell you you're not in render mode ? You render look like preview mode is strange !

Go looking my video in past comment you see it ! https://projects.blender.org/attachments/c3468658-34d9-41d2-a7fd-507372b2332c Mine is really totally different ! And in my side i don't put any lightprobe because i have the screen space tracing idk why i do use light probe with screen trace ... screen trace is invented to replace "Lightprobe" why i should be use light probe WITH screen trace is purely incoherent ! So in this terms remove simply screen tracing and use light probe volume he simply make better works than screen tric if is that i'm sorry but this implementation not looking good if is the case :/ And let me teell you you're not in render mode ? You render look like preview mode is strange !

Philipp Oeser commented

2024-03-26 09:44:51 +01:00

Afaict, screen tracing and plane probes can go hand in hand :

If a Reflection Plane is near a reflective surface, it will be used as the source for tracing rays more efficiently and fix the partial visibility problem.

https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/4.2/render/eevee/render_settings/screen_space_reflections.html

(manual is about EEVEE, but apparently the same still holds for EEVEE next)

Afaict, screen tracing and plane probes **can** go hand in hand : >If a Reflection Plane is near a reflective surface, it will be used as the source for tracing rays more efficiently and fix the partial visibility problem. https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/4.2/render/eevee/render_settings/screen_space_reflections.html (manual is about EEVEE, but apparently the same still holds for EEVEE next)

Donovane commented

2024-03-26 09:48:26 +01:00

Afaict, screen tracing and plane probes can go hand in hand :

Yes afaict but normally if your using screen space tracing you don't need to user light probe i'm sorry but tell in what render engin you do this ?

Because in my mind nothing motor game engine or render engine ! technically is

Lightprobe only
Screen trace with AO Only

But i never seen you do use both in same time... If you do use both in the same time simply use lightprobe again you win more time you use less compute and you get same result for less power.... SO i don't understand the logical here !

> Afaict, screen tracing and plane probes **can** go hand in hand : Yes afaict but normally if your using screen space tracing you don't need to user light probe i'm sorry but tell in what render engin you do this ? Because in my mind nothing motor game engine or render engine ! technically is 1. Lightprobe only 2. Screen trace with AO Only But i never seen you do use both in same time... If you do use both in the same time simply use lightprobe again you win more time you use less compute and you get same result for less power.... SO i don't understand the logical here !

Philipp Oeser commented

2024-03-26 10:24:24 +01:00

Yes afaict but normally if your using screen space tracing you don't need to user light probe

screen tracing does have limitations though (the "visibility problem") and apparently can be made faster with probes

If you do use both in the same time simply use lightprobe again you win more time you use less compute and you get same result for less power

lightprobe only also has limitations (not sure if we need to go into details)

Sketchfab has a lot of visibility "problems" as well btw., not exactly sure how they do it, but afaict, they fill in gaps with some sort of approximated stuff, so that is far from perfect either.

I think if you can get the best of both worlds, then why not use it?

To get this report a bit away from "this generally looks bad/good", I would like to see some concrete examples (with a sharable .blend file) where we clearly have a screen trace reflection missing (that is not because of the ray not being able to "see" the stuff because it is not on screen)

>Yes afaict but normally if your using screen space tracing you don't need to user light probe screen tracing does have limitations though (the "visibility problem") and apparently can be made faster with probes >If you do use both in the same time simply use lightprobe again you win more time you use less compute and you get same result for less power lightprobe only also has limitations (not sure if we need to go into details) Sketchfab has a lot of visibility "problems" as well btw., not exactly sure how they do it, but afaict, they fill in gaps with some sort of approximated stuff, so that is far from perfect either. I think if you can get the best of both worlds, then why not use it? To get this report a bit away from "this generally looks bad/good", I would like to see some concrete examples (with a sharable .blend file) where we clearly have a screen trace reflection missing (that is **not** because of the ray not being able to "see" the stuff because it is not on screen)

👍 1

Jeroen Bakker commented

2024-03-26 10:34:49 +01:00

I vote to close this issue as it doesn't seem to fall in the categories of bugs. @dodo-2 expects that something should work, because it works in other engines. Or wants better render quality, but without any reduction of features. Those are feature requests and should be discussed in the appropriate channels.

👍 1

Jeroen Bakker closed this issue

2024-03-26 10:34:52 +01:00

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labels 2024-03-26 10:34:54 +01:00

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