Proposal for User Count Icons #119974

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Harley Acheson · 2024-03-27T18:25:15+01:00

Harley Acheson commented

2024-03-27 18:25:15 +01:00

We have been struggling to think of a way of illustrating user counts in a way that works in a single column or within an icon-sized area. I'm wondering if something like this could work:

Not illustrated is that each would probably also have a user count displayed at their bottom-right. An empty person to indicate no users. With a "0" digit at the bottom right that might tell the story very well. The filled person could be used for any user count above zero when there isn't a fake user. And the robot to indicate that fake user is applied. This would mean that these could always work as a toggle, to add or remove fake user.

The state of having multiple real users AND fake user seems to work a bit better. Rather than read as multiple shields it would look, at worst, like multiple fake users perhaps. But with the toggling behavior and the displayed user count this might be okay. This state seems less likely too.

In a nutshell this is replacing the "shield" protection metaphor with an illustration of users, real and fake. This way we also have an option of removing the "fake user" entirely one day and still have user count illustration.

We have been struggling to think of a way of illustrating user counts in a way that works in a single column or within an icon-sized area. I'm wondering if something like this could work: ![image](/attachments/7ee65510-9495-462c-bbc1-3a704665071c) Not illustrated is that each would probably also have a user count displayed at their bottom-right. An empty person to indicate no users. With a "0" digit at the bottom right that might tell the story very well. The filled person could be used for any user count above zero when there isn't a fake user. And the robot to indicate that fake user is applied. This would mean that these could always work as a toggle, to add or remove fake user. The state of having multiple real users AND fake user seems to work a bit better. Rather than read as multiple shields it would look, at worst, like multiple fake users perhaps. But with the toggling behavior and the displayed user count this might be okay. This state seems less likely too. In a nutshell this is replacing the "shield" protection metaphor with an illustration of users, real and fake. This way we also have an option of removing the "fake user" entirely one day and still have user count illustration.

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Harley Acheson added the

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label 2024-03-27 18:25:15 +01:00

Harley Acheson added this to the User Interface project 2024-03-27 18:25:18 +01:00

thorn-neverwake commented

2024-03-27 20:56:35 +01:00

What if it used less... pictogram style, and just basic.

No users: Circle with a Zero inside
Users: Circle with a Number inside
Fake Users: Use the existing shield icon, with a Number inside

The above would make the number larger and easier to see, as well as avoid lengthy debates on what a head or a robot should look like.

What if it used less... pictogram style, and just basic. No users: Circle with a Zero inside Users: Circle with a Number inside Fake Users: Use the existing shield icon, with a Number inside The above would make the number larger and easier to see, as well as avoid lengthy debates on what a head or a robot should look like.

Harley Acheson commented

2024-03-27 22:05:41 +01:00

No users: Circle with a Zero inside
Users: Circle with a Number inside
Fake Users: Use the existing shield icon, with a Number inside

The issue we are having is what to do with items that have at least one real user AND get fake user.

I think you could have situations where you could have one item showing a Circle with a "4" inside and another item with a Shield and a "4" inside. Click on the former and you get Shield with a "5" and click on the latter and get a Circle with a "3". These things don't seem connected enough. Or maybe tooltips can explain it well.

But I would still worry that in isolation, where only one value is shown, that a Shield with a "4" doesn't quite explain enough what that means. Or the difference between a Circle with "1" versus Circle with "0" shows enough visual contrast to indicate that the latter is in danger of removal.

> No users: Circle with a Zero inside > Users: Circle with a Number inside > Fake Users: Use the existing shield icon, with a Number inside The issue we are having is what to do with items that have at least one real user AND get fake user. I think you could have situations where you could have one item showing a Circle with a "4" inside and another item with a Shield and a "4" inside. Click on the former and you get Shield with a "5" and click on the latter and get a Circle with a "3". These things don't seem connected enough. Or maybe tooltips can explain it well. But I would still worry that in isolation, where only one value is shown, that a Shield with a "4" doesn't quite explain enough what that means. Or the difference between a Circle with "1" versus Circle with "0" shows enough visual contrast to indicate that the latter is in danger of removal.

Leon Schittek commented

2024-03-28 21:03:12 +01:00

I think the task description is missing a few examples, where these new icons are supposed to be used. That makes it a little hard to judge the proposal.

Would the shield be replaced in all contexts? And if not, how would users make the connection between the shield and the robot?
There are a few cases where I just dont see the robot being a great fit, like here:

Sure, the robot might be a representation of "fake user", but I don't think that "fake user" as a concept that is particularly clear to users.
I think the shield icon as a metaphor for protection is much stronger in those cases, since it represents the action the user wants to take.

@Harley : I think you could have situations where you could have one item showing a Circle with a "4" inside and another item with a Shield and a "4" inside. Click on the former and you get Shield with a "5" and click on the latter and get a Circle with a "3". These things don't seem connected enough.

I'm not familiar with the implementation, but is there a reason we count the "fake user", when reporting the user count in the UI?
To me that feels like an implementation detail and users only really care about the actual uses of data in the scene, which is also how the user count is displayed at the datablock picker itself.
So when there is a datablock that is not used, but is protected via "fake user", it should still say 0. That would avoid the issue of clicking the shield changing the user count.
But I might be missing something here.

@Harley : Or the difference between a Circle with "1" versus Circle with "0" shows enough visual contrast to indicate that the latter is in danger of removal.

I kinda like @thorn-neverwake's idea and I think you could make this clear by making the circle just an outline, when there is no user and the datablock is in danger of removal.
Otherwise it would use a filled circle or the filled shield which should provide enough contrast to quickly scan for all the data that is removed on save.

Here's a mockup. It doesn't seem to scale well for higher user counts, though.

state	screenshot
Has a user
No user
Protected

I think the task description is missing a few examples, where these new icons are supposed to be used. That makes it a little hard to judge the proposal. Would the shield be replaced in all contexts? And if not, how would users make the connection between the shield and the robot? There are a few cases where I just dont see the robot being a great fit, like here: ![mesh-data.png](/attachments/8054a8ad-89a6-4d83-82f3-a47371177b33) Sure, the robot might be a representation of "fake user", but I don't think that "fake user" as a concept that is particularly clear to users. I think the shield icon as a metaphor for protection is much stronger in those cases, since it represents the action the user wants to take. > @Harley : I think you could have situations where you could have one item showing a Circle with a "4" inside and another item with a Shield and a "4" inside. Click on the former and you get Shield with a "5" and click on the latter and get a Circle with a "3". These things don't seem connected enough. I'm not familiar with the implementation, but is there a reason we count the "fake user", when reporting the user count in the UI? To me that feels like an implementation detail and users only really care about the *actual* uses of data in the scene, which is also how the user count is displayed at the datablock picker itself. So when there is a datablock that is not used, but is protected via "fake user", it should still say 0. That would avoid the issue of clicking the shield changing the user count. But I might be missing something here. > @Harley : Or the difference between a Circle with "1" versus Circle with "0" shows enough visual contrast to indicate that the latter is in danger of removal. I kinda like @thorn-neverwake's idea and I think you could make this clear by making the circle just an outline, when there is no user and the datablock is in danger of removal. Otherwise it would use a filled circle or the filled shield which should provide enough contrast to quickly scan for all the data that is removed on save. Here's a mockup. It doesn't seem to scale well for higher user counts, though. |state|screenshot| |---|---| |Has a user|![1-user.png](/attachments/52b49183-2b8a-499d-bcb2-9b4e146fd2ff)| |No user|![0-user.png](/attachments/28d7e407-6873-4cf1-8d3f-c2da92384ebb)| |Protected|![protected.png](/attachments/703497a5-cc29-4ed8-8ef1-39af2e8a0ca5)|

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Harley Acheson commented

2024-03-28 21:33:41 +01:00

@lone_noel - I think the task description is missing a few examples

You are right. This was mostly a doodle...

This starts with the desire to add a way to manage user and fake users outside of the "Unused Data" mode in Outliner, which only shows things without a real user. So we start with this: #118691

We all dislike the two-column display in "Unused Data." First it is a bit redundant that there are two columns representing only two possible states. But having a single column would also allow us to show these consistently elsewhere where we don't have the extra space.

Once you start combining these things though into a single "user count", it starts off easy and gets a bit odd. Easy enough to show when there is no real user and no fake user (empty shield), or if there is no real user and fake user (full shield). But then we want to differentiate between having a single user that is real versus fake. If we only the shields then when there is no fake user applied there isn't enough visual difference between 0 real users and having more - only the number is changing.

And if we add fake user to something that has real users, showing the full shield looks like we are counting shields.

So in a nutshell, items with no real user is easy to show. But as soon as the item has real users it would be nice to indicate that in a nice way and then also indicate whether it also has fake user as well.

For a little while I experimented using ICON_COMMUNITY (looks like a couple people) to represent "users" separately from fake user. That looked pretty nice I thought, although we use that particular icon elsewhere so can't really use that one.

We're probably just going to do it as shown in #118691, but always nice to explore all possibilities.

> @lone_noel - I think the task description is missing a few examples You are right. This was mostly a doodle... This starts with the desire to add a way to manage user and fake users outside of the "Unused Data" mode in Outliner, which only shows things without a real user. So we start with this: https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/pulls/118691 We all dislike the two-column display in "Unused Data." First it is a bit redundant that there are two columns representing only two possible states. But having a single column would also allow us to show these consistently elsewhere where we don't have the extra space. Once you start combining these things though into a single "user count", it starts off easy and gets a bit odd. Easy enough to show when there is no real user and no fake user (empty shield), or if there is no real user and fake user (full shield). But then we want to differentiate between having a single user that is real versus fake. If we only the shields then when there is no fake user applied there isn't enough visual difference between 0 real users and having more - only the number is changing. And if we add fake user to something that has real users, showing the full shield looks like we are counting shields. So in a nutshell, items with no real user is easy to show. But as soon as the item has real users it would be nice to indicate that in a nice way and then also indicate whether it also has fake user as well. For a little while I experimented using ICON_COMMUNITY (looks like a couple people) to represent "users" separately from fake user. That looked pretty nice I thought, although we use that particular icon elsewhere so can't really use that one. We're probably just going to do it as shown in #118691, but always nice to explore all possibilities.

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Proposal for User Count Icons #119974