Adjusting hotkey behavior for bone (de)selection #120412

New Issue

Rik Schutte · 2024-04-08T21:28:47+02:00

Rik Schutte commented

2024-04-08 21:28:47 +02:00

This proposal has been discussed in the #animation-module channel before, and people there are generally positive about this change.

Scope

For now this is about pose bones only. Edit Bone, Object, Vertex selection behavior would be nice to have consistent with this, but that's for later.

This proposal does not include any of the tool widgets, so all operations are performed outside the areas covered by a widget.

Drag behavior: This proposal is only about clicking, not dragging to change selection. It is worth to note that the drag-to-select gestures also use the control key to toggle between selecting and deselecting (drag to select and ctrl + drag to deselect). This proposal is consistent with that behavior.

Terminology

To avoid having to repeat everything for left-click and right-click select (LCS resp. RCS), we just use SMB for "Selecting Mouse Button", which is to be understood as LMB for LCS, RMB for RCS.

Current issue

Deselecting bones in the viewport can currently be done with:

a 2 click solution: shift + SMB to select active object, shift + SMB again to then deselect active object.
ctrl + SMB + drag (box/circle/lasso selection) over the targeted bones.

The workflow above seems to be rather cumbersome (2 clicks/actions for activating and deselecting a bone) or not precise enough with the box selection. It also lacks consistency, whereas ctrl is only used when drag-deselecting, but completely ignored when click-deselecting.

Proposed solution

Simplifying shift + SMB by removing its 'deselection' functionality. This way it will only be used for adding bones to selection and making a bone the active object.
Switching single bone deselection to ctrl + SMB, to be more consistent with the ctrl + SMB + drag behavior (deselecting bones within drawn box/circle/lasso area).

Current	Proposed

Hotkeys

Current hotkey behavior

Interaction	Effect
`SMB click`	selects a bone + makes it active
`shift + SMB`	adds bone to selection. If already selected, it first makes it 'active'. then after repeating this hotkey, it deselects the bone.
`ctrl + SMB`	unused

Proposed hotkey behavior

Interaction	Effect
`SMB`	selects a bone + activate (same as before)
`shift + SMB`	adds bone to selection, and/or sets active bone but NOT deselect it when clicking twice.
`ctrl + SMB`	deselects bone.

_This proposal has been discussed in the [`#animation-module` channel][chat] before, and people there are generally positive about this change._ [chat]: https://blender.chat/channel/animation-module ## Scope For now this is about **pose bones only**. Edit Bone, Object, Vertex selection behavior would be nice to have consistent with this, but that's for later. This proposal does not include any of the tool widgets, so all operations are performed outside the areas covered by a widget. **Drag behavior:** This proposal is only about clicking, not dragging to change selection. It is worth to note that the drag-to-select gestures also use the control key to toggle between selecting and deselecting (`drag` to select and `ctrl + drag` to deselect). This proposal is consistent with that behavior. ## Terminology To avoid having to repeat everything for left-click and right-click select (LCS resp. RCS), we just use `SMB` for "Selecting Mouse Button", which is to be understood as `LMB` for LCS, `RMB` for RCS. ## Current issue Deselecting bones in the viewport can currently be done with: - a 2 click solution: `shift + SMB` to select active object, `shift + SMB` again to then deselect active object. - `ctrl + SMB + drag` (box/circle/lasso selection) over the targeted bones. The workflow above seems to be rather cumbersome (2 clicks/actions for activating and deselecting a bone) or not precise enough with the box selection. It also lacks consistency, whereas `ctrl` is only used when drag-deselecting, but completely ignored when click-deselecting. ## Proposed solution Simplifying `shift + SMB` by removing its 'deselection' functionality. This way it will only be used for adding bones to selection and making a bone the active object. Switching single bone deselection to `ctrl + SMB`, to be more consistent with the `ctrl + SMB + drag` behavior (deselecting bones within drawn box/circle/lasso area). | Current | Proposed | | - | - | | ![Current behavior](https://projects.blender.org/attachments/947ea6cd-c8c4-4fdd-be33-3b52b201de1a) | ![Proposed behavior](https://projects.blender.org/attachments/87e385f0-79e6-43e1-9e86-09f39fa7766e) | ## Hotkeys ### Current hotkey behavior | Interaction | Effect | | ------------- | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | `SMB click` | selects a bone + makes it active | | `shift + SMB` | adds bone to selection. If already selected, it first makes it 'active'. then after repeating this hotkey, it deselects the bone. | | `ctrl + SMB` | unused | ### Proposed hotkey behavior | Interaction | Effect | | ------------- | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | `SMB` | selects a bone + activate (same as before) | | `shift + SMB` | adds bone to selection, and/or sets active bone but NOT deselect it when clicking twice. | | `ctrl + SMB` | deselects bone. |

bone_selection_current.jpg

88 KiB

bone_selection_new.jpg

84 KiB

👍 1 ❤️ 8

Rik Schutte added the

Type

Design

label 2024-04-08 21:28:47 +02:00

Iliya Katushenock added this to the Animation & Rigging project 2024-04-08 21:44:48 +02:00

Sybren A. Stüvel added the

Module

Animation & Rigging

label 2024-04-09 12:03:26 +02:00

Brad Clark commented

2024-04-10 16:10:28 +02:00

This looks good to me, the sooner we can have a "test build" to allow people to try it and see if it feels right, better, easy, I think the better but on paper less clicks and more consistent would be better

👍 3

Sybren A. Stüvel self-assigned this 2024-04-23 12:40:51 +02:00

Sybren A. Stüvel commented

2024-04-25 10:37:19 +02:00

Going over the details, I think this needs some clearing up.

Current hotkey behavior: (Both for RMB and LMB selection preferences)

LMB= selects a bone

Hmmm nope. In "right-click select" (RCS) mode, you need RMB to select the bone. LMB will place the 3D cursor.

LMB + drag = box/lasso selects bones within drawn area.

This does work like that, so it's always LMB regardless of which button you select with. At least when the Select Box tool is active in the toolbar (which AFAIK is the default).

shift + LMB = adds bone to selection. If already selected, it first makes it 'active object'. then after repeating this hotkey, it deselects the bone.

This doesn't work like that in RCS mode either. In Armature Edit mode, shift + LMB doesn't do anything. shift + RMB will select a chain of bones, from the active bone to the clicked bone. In Pose mode it does work as you describe, except it uses shift + RMB instead.

I think it would be clearer to start the description with an introduction of the "selecting mouse button" (SMB), which is either LMB or RMB depending on your right/left click select preference.

Also this proposal should be explicit about which bones it's talking about, because of the differences between edit & pose modes. Should these modes work consistently? Or are there different needs for animators & riggers here? Selection in armature edit mode is going to be slightly different anyway, because of the three parts of the bone that can be selected (tip, head, bone) compared to pose mode (only bone).

The bigger issue is that, when the description is unclear / ambiguous about the existing behaviour, it means that the proposed behaviour is unclear as well. Since it's not just "swap LMB for RMB for RCS mode", I think expressing it in terms of SMB, or LMB/RMB when they're always left/right regardless of preference, will help a lot.

This level of precision is a necessity for any developer to be able to implement the proposal.

Going over the details, I think this needs some clearing up. > **Current hotkey behavior: (Both for RMB and LMB selection preferences)** > > `LMB`= selects a bone Hmmm nope. In "right-click select" (RCS) mode, you need `RMB` to select the bone. `LMB` will place the 3D cursor. > `LMB + drag` = box/lasso selects bones within drawn area. This does work like that, so it's always `LMB` regardless of which button you select with. At least when the Select Box tool is active in the toolbar (which AFAIK is the default). > `shift + LMB` = adds bone to selection. If already selected, it first makes it 'active object'. then after repeating this hotkey, it deselects the bone. This doesn't work like that in RCS mode either. In Armature Edit mode, `shift + LMB` doesn't do anything. `shift + RMB` will select a chain of bones, from the active bone to the clicked bone. In Pose mode it does work as you describe, except it uses `shift + RMB` instead. I think it would be clearer to start the description with an introduction of the "selecting mouse button" (`SMB`), which is either `LMB` or `RMB` depending on your right/left click select preference. Also this proposal should be explicit about which bones it's talking about, because of the differences between edit & pose modes. Should these modes work consistently? Or are there different needs for animators & riggers here? Selection in armature edit mode is going to be slightly different anyway, because of the three parts of the bone that can be selected (tip, head, bone) compared to pose mode (only bone). The bigger issue is that, when the description is unclear / ambiguous about the existing behaviour, it means that the proposed behaviour is unclear as well. Since it's not just "_swap `LMB` for `RMB` for RCS mode_", I think expressing it in terms of `SMB`, or `LMB`/`RMB` when they're _always_ left/right regardless of preference, will help a lot. This level of precision is a necessity for any developer to be able to implement the proposal.

Sybren A. Stüvel changed title from ~~Adjusting hotkey behavior for bone (de)selection.~~ to Adjusting hotkey behavior for bone (de)selection

2024-05-07 14:49:54 +02:00

Sybren A. Stüvel commented

2024-05-07 17:56:14 +02:00

I've just had a little meeting with @Rikstopher about this, and updated the proposal description accordingly.

Sybren A. Stüvel added the

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Adjusting hotkey behavior for bone (de)selection #120412