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FBX and USD import is broken - blender does not detect custom normals, puts hard edges where they are not. #120590

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opened 2024-04-12 18:33:14 +02:00 by Igor Unguryanov · 20 comments
Igor Unguryanov commented 2024-04-12 18:33:14 +02:00
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System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.22631-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.6.0 NVIDIA 551.86

Blender Version
Broken: version: 4.1.0, branch: blender-v4.1-release, commit date: 2024-03-25 20:42, hash: 40a5e739e270
Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected)

Short description of error

4.1 4.0
image image

When importing a model in FBX or USD format from Houdini, I get problems with normals. For some reason I get hard edges where they should not be.
UDS import is broken in both versions. FBX import since version 4.1

image

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.22631-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.6.0 NVIDIA 551.86 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 4.1.0, branch: blender-v4.1-release, commit date: 2024-03-25 20:42, hash: `40a5e739e270` Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected) **Short description of error** | 4.1 | 4.0 | | -- | -- | | ![image](/attachments/d55b84f5-c262-4a2e-a0d8-d8c26626e71c) | ![image](/attachments/e826cc00-3c24-4e49-b7de-024f150e7c02) | When importing a model in FBX or USD format from Houdini, I get problems with normals. For some reason I get hard edges where they should not be. UDS import is broken in both versions. FBX import since version 4.1 ![image](/attachments/d42e6364-9c4a-434e-acfe-b6b8b67ef417)
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Igor Unguryanov added the
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 labels 2024-04-12 18:33:14 +02:00
Alexander Fomichev commented 2024-04-12 18:35:34 +02:00
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I confirm. I too have encountered this problem.

I confirm. I too have encountered this problem.
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Iliya Katushenock commented 2024-04-12 18:36:51 +02:00
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Hi, can you check this: #120173 (comment)

Hi, can you check this: https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/issues/120173#issuecomment-1158915
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Igor Unguryanov commented 2024-04-12 18:43:20 +02:00
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It is important to save custom normals when importing! Resetting normals is not a solution, also if you remove hard edges, shading breaks, which is also not a solution.

It is important to save custom normals when importing! Resetting normals is not a solution, also if you remove hard edges, shading breaks, which is also not a solution.
Igor Ermakov commented 2024-04-12 18:43:53 +02:00
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if you delete custom normals and then delete sharp edge, the shading of the model breaks.

if you delete custom normals and then delete sharp edge, the shading of the model breaks.
Iliya Katushenock commented 2024-04-12 18:46:49 +02:00
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First of all, can you attach example files?

First of all, can you attach example files?
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 label 2024-04-12 18:47:56 +02:00
Igor Unguryanov commented 2024-04-12 18:50:21 +02:00
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First of all, can you attach example files?

> First of all, can you attach example files?
Test5.fbx
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Iliya Katushenock commented 2024-04-12 19:06:53 +02:00
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@HooglyBoogly /

@HooglyBoogly /
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Eugenii-Kilbas commented 2024-04-15 14:19:32 +02:00
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I confirm. I too have encountered this problem.

I confirm. I too have encountered this problem.
Philipp Oeser commented 2024-04-16 13:49:32 +02:00
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OK, the other linked report ( #120173 ) was different I think (as-in: the custom normals were not used there.

Here though, they are, and it just seems the custom normals are applied differently (and wrong it seems)

This is the same vertex in 4.0 after FBX import with (no sharp edges) custom normals

image

This is the same vertex in 4.0 after FBX import without (no sharp edges) custom normals

image

This is the same vertex in 4.1 after FBX import with (no sharp edges) custom normals

image

This is the same vertex in 4.1 after FBX import without (no sharp edges) custom normals

image

Will confirm for now. @HooglyBoogly : am I missing something or is this really wrong in 4.1?

OK, the other linked report ( #120173 ) was different I think (as-in: the custom normals were not used there. Here though, they are, and it just seems the custom normals are applied differently (and wrong it seems) This is the same vertex in 4.0 after FBX import with (no sharp edges) custom normals ![image](/attachments/a355dddb-ad4f-436f-851c-14054a442965) This is the same vertex in 4.0 after FBX import without (no sharp edges) custom normals ![image](/attachments/fd0b9fa5-80f0-4e9f-9486-969865d69362) This is the same vertex in 4.1 after FBX import with (no sharp edges) custom normals ![image](/attachments/014529c7-4f97-49b8-9281-b1a90ead56cb) This is the same vertex in 4.1 after FBX import without (no sharp edges) custom normals ![image](/attachments/4b939a64-fd62-4ec8-a826-86d24eb9ed4b) Will confirm for now. @HooglyBoogly : am I missing something or is this really wrong in 4.1?
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 labels 2024-04-16 13:50:24 +02:00
Hans Goudey commented 2024-04-17 20:59:01 +02:00
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Could you give the index of that vertex? I imported the USD file in 4.0 and 4.2 here and saw the same number of sharp edges. And visually things are seeming the same to me, so I'm not sure what to look for here.

get hard edges where they should not be.

It would be helpful to know what this means in Blender's terms.

Could you give the index of that vertex? I imported the USD file in 4.0 and 4.2 here and saw the same number of sharp edges. And visually things are seeming the same to me, so I'm not sure what to look for here. >get hard edges where they should not be. It would be helpful to know what this means in Blender's terms.
Igor Ermakov commented 2024-04-17 21:21:17 +02:00
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this geometry is taken from another software, if you import FBX, then everything is smoothed out in 4.0, if you import USD, then sharpen edge appears. the geometry should be smoothed.

this geometry is taken from another software, if you import FBX, then everything is smoothed out in 4.0, if you import USD, then sharpen edge appears. the geometry should be smoothed.
Igor Ermakov commented 2024-04-17 21:25:58 +02:00
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I am working on version 3.6.10 lts and when importing FBX from other software (maya, max), the shading of the model does not break. In versions 4.1 and 4.2, shading breaks when importing FBX

I am working on version 3.6.10 lts and when importing FBX from other software (maya, max), the shading of the model does not break. In versions 4.1 and 4.2, shading breaks when importing FBX
Igor Ermakov commented 2024-04-17 21:31:52 +02:00
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hard edge in MAYA = sharpen edge in BLENDER

hard edge in MAYA = sharpen edge in BLENDER
Philipp Oeser commented 2024-04-18 09:46:13 +02:00
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Could you give the index of that vertex? I imported the USD file in 4.0 and 4.2 here and saw the same number of sharp edges. And visually things are seeming the same to me, so I'm not sure what to look for here.

OK, here is again what I did:

  • in 4.0
    -- import FBX
    -- make sure we only look at custom normals
    --- no sharp edges (there should be none)
    --- mesh properties > Geometry Data (there should be Custom Split Normals on the mesh)
    --- mesh properties > Normals > Auto Smooth is checked (degrees should be greyed out, indicating we are using the custom normals)
    -- editmode overlays > Display Split Normals > constant screen size 50px
    -- editmode overlays > Display Developer Indices
    -- look at vertex 13513
    image
    -- mesh properties > Geometry Data > Clear Custom Split Normals Data
    image

  • in 4.1
    -- import FBX
    -- make sure we only look at custom normals
    --- no sharp edges (in editmode :Ctrl + E > Clear Sharp)
    --- mesh properties > Geometry Data (there should be Custom Split Normals on the mesh)
    -- editmode overlays > Display Split Normals > constant screen size 50px
    -- editmode overlays > Display Developer Indices
    -- look at vertex 13513
    image
    -- mesh properties > Geometry Data > Clear Custom Split Normals Data
    image

OK, and then I noticed that we actually have overlapping vertices (there is not only 13513 in that spot, but also 8201)

image

Anyways, this should not really make a difference?
@HooglyBoogly : does this make sense?

> Could you give the index of that vertex? I imported the USD file in 4.0 and 4.2 here and saw the same number of sharp edges. And visually things are seeming the same to me, so I'm not sure what to look for here. OK, here is again what I did: - in 4.0 -- import FBX -- make sure we only look at custom normals --- no sharp edges (there should be none) --- mesh properties > Geometry Data (there should be Custom Split Normals on the mesh) --- mesh properties > Normals > Auto Smooth is checked (degrees should be greyed out, indicating we are using the custom normals) -- editmode overlays > Display Split Normals > constant screen size 50px -- editmode overlays > Display Developer Indices -- look at vertex 13513 ![image](/attachments/eb290fda-6c81-4928-ac88-9fa86e87c1b9) -- mesh properties > Geometry Data > Clear Custom Split Normals Data ![image](/attachments/7e384405-bc01-4e79-9c11-8862ebfd1d28) - in 4.1 -- import FBX -- make sure we only look at custom normals --- no sharp edges (in editmode :Ctrl + E > Clear Sharp) --- mesh properties > Geometry Data (there should be Custom Split Normals on the mesh) -- editmode overlays > Display Split Normals > constant screen size 50px -- editmode overlays > Display Developer Indices -- look at vertex 13513 ![image](/attachments/7c1f9b19-487e-433f-b548-8518a830d329) -- mesh properties > Geometry Data > Clear Custom Split Normals Data ![image](/attachments/ce1fa639-5202-4304-a92c-7e421d8f7d00) OK, and then I noticed that we actually have overlapping vertices (there is not only 13513 in that spot, but also 8201) ![image](/attachments/108850e4-efd2-43a7-911e-82d3d237429e) Anyways, this should not really make a difference? @HooglyBoogly : does this make sense?
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Igor Unguryanov commented 2024-04-18 14:59:05 +02:00
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Could you give the index of that vertex? I imported the USD file in 4.0 and 4.2 here and saw the same number of sharp edges. And visually things are seeming the same to me, so I'm not sure what to look for here.

OK, here is again what I did:

  • in 4.0
    -- import FBX
    -- make sure we only look at custom normals
    --- no sharp edges (there should be none)
    --- mesh properties > Geometry Data (there should be Custom Split Normals on the mesh)
    --- mesh properties > Normals > Auto Smooth is checked (degrees should be greyed out, indicating we are using the custom normals)
    -- editmode overlays > Display Split Normals > constant screen size 50px
    -- editmode overlays > Display Developer Indices
    -- look at vertex 13513
    image
    -- mesh properties > Geometry Data > Clear Custom Split Normals Data
    image

  • in 4.1
    -- import FBX
    -- make sure we only look at custom normals
    --- no sharp edges (in editmode :Ctrl + E > Clear Sharp)
    --- mesh properties > Geometry Data (there should be Custom Split Normals on the mesh)
    -- editmode overlays > Display Split Normals > constant screen size 50px
    -- editmode overlays > Display Developer Indices
    -- look at vertex 13513
    image
    -- mesh properties > Geometry Data > Clear Custom Split Normals Data
    image

OK, and then I noticed that we actually have overlapping vertices (there is not only 13513 in that spot, but also 8201)

image

Anyways, this should not really make a difference?
@HooglyBoogly : does this make sense?

Overlapping vertexes on each other is due to the fact that therane pieces are separate objects and at a later stage, these pieces will be separate objects, but this in no way refers to the problem with importing custom normals in versions of Blender since 4.1 for FBX and all versions of Blender with USD, because in 3ds Max, Maya problems with the normals of the imported object is not.

> > Could you give the index of that vertex? I imported the USD file in 4.0 and 4.2 here and saw the same number of sharp edges. And visually things are seeming the same to me, so I'm not sure what to look for here. > > OK, here is again what I did: > - in 4.0 > -- import FBX > -- make sure we only look at custom normals > --- no sharp edges (there should be none) > --- mesh properties > Geometry Data (there should be Custom Split Normals on the mesh) > --- mesh properties > Normals > Auto Smooth is checked (degrees should be greyed out, indicating we are using the custom normals) > -- editmode overlays > Display Split Normals > constant screen size 50px > -- editmode overlays > Display Developer Indices > -- look at vertex 13513 > ![image](/attachments/eb290fda-6c81-4928-ac88-9fa86e87c1b9) > -- mesh properties > Geometry Data > Clear Custom Split Normals Data > ![image](/attachments/7e384405-bc01-4e79-9c11-8862ebfd1d28) > > - in 4.1 > -- import FBX > -- make sure we only look at custom normals > --- no sharp edges (in editmode :Ctrl + E > Clear Sharp) > --- mesh properties > Geometry Data (there should be Custom Split Normals on the mesh) > -- editmode overlays > Display Split Normals > constant screen size 50px > -- editmode overlays > Display Developer Indices > -- look at vertex 13513 > ![image](/attachments/7c1f9b19-487e-433f-b548-8518a830d329) > -- mesh properties > Geometry Data > Clear Custom Split Normals Data > ![image](/attachments/ce1fa639-5202-4304-a92c-7e421d8f7d00) > > OK, and then I noticed that we actually have overlapping vertices (there is not only 13513 in that spot, but also 8201) > > ![image](/attachments/108850e4-efd2-43a7-911e-82d3d237429e) > > Anyways, this should not really make a difference? > @HooglyBoogly : does this make sense? Overlapping vertexes on each other is due to the fact that therane pieces are separate objects and at a later stage, these pieces will be separate objects, but this in no way refers to the problem with importing custom normals in versions of Blender since 4.1 for FBX and all versions of Blender with USD, because in 3ds Max, Maya problems with the normals of the imported object is not.
Hans Goudey commented 2024-04-18 15:06:18 +02:00
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@lichtwerk Sorry, but your screenshot looks the same in 4.0 and 4.1. What am I missing again?

@lichtwerk Sorry, but your screenshot looks the same in 4.0 and 4.1. What am I missing again?
Iliya Katushenock commented 2024-04-18 20:12:28 +02:00
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@HooglyBoogly /

3.6.11 4.2
image image
image image
@HooglyBoogly / | 3.6.11 | 4.2 | | -- | -- | | ![image](/attachments/9f7df22f-c882-4533-b2eb-d978bf02427c) | ![image](/attachments/ec4be0aa-43c6-4270-8627-df7be13f1011) | | ![image](/attachments/1e0113cf-14f7-4cd2-a0e9-768588ccc34a) | ![image](/attachments/b6116ef5-ad22-4c6e-bcee-9f11a4042bf5) |
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Philipp Oeser commented 2024-04-19 09:03:12 +02:00
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@lichtwerk Sorry, but your screenshot looks the same in 4.0 and 4.1. What am I missing again?

Compare the first and the third screenshots from my previous comment

image

image

4.0 has a "unified" normal, in 4.1 it is split

> @lichtwerk Sorry, but your screenshot looks the same in 4.0 and 4.1. What am I missing again? Compare the first and the third screenshots from my previous comment ![image](/attachments/2e010f1b-1403-4a82-b76f-2cefb222dc4c) ![image](/attachments/1f8ca026-a998-4a59-8f30-2ef82122b203) 4.0 has a "unified" normal, in 4.1 it is split
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Igor Unguryanov commented 2024-04-19 19:44:41 +02:00
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@lichtwerk Sorry, but your screenshot looks the same in 4.0 and 4.1. What am I missing again?

Compare the first and the third screenshots from my previous comment

image

image

4.0 has a "unified" normal, in 4.1 it is split

This is correct, as the vertex normals look in different directions in 4.1 Since this version blender is clearly not handling importing custom normals correctly.

> > @lichtwerk Sorry, but your screenshot looks the same in 4.0 and 4.1. What am I missing again? > > Compare the first and the third screenshots from my previous comment > > ![image](/attachments/2e010f1b-1403-4a82-b76f-2cefb222dc4c) > > ![image](/attachments/1f8ca026-a998-4a59-8f30-2ef82122b203) > > 4.0 has a "unified" normal, in 4.1 it is split This is correct, as the vertex normals look in different directions in 4.1 Since this version blender is clearly not handling importing custom normals correctly.
Philipp Oeser commented 2024-04-24 10:36:38 +02:00
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Worth mentioning that exporting the FBX from 4.0 and then importing in 4.1 has the correct result (this then also does not mark edges as sharp).

But I also checked if just omitting setting sharp edges upon setting custom normals in 4.1 (see the below hack) would fix this with the original FBX -- and it does not get rid of the problem...

diff --git a/source/blender/blenkernel/intern/mesh_normals.cc b/source/blender/blenkernel/intern/mesh_normals.cc
index 974b0815e17..c6c09b69d94 100644
--- a/source/blender/blenkernel/intern/mesh_normals.cc
+++ b/source/blender/blenkernel/intern/mesh_normals.cc
@@ -1388,7 +1388,7 @@ static void mesh_normals_corner_custom_set(const Span<float3> positions,
           const int edge = corner_edges[lidx];
           const int edge_prev = corner_edges[corner_prev];
           const int prev_edge = corner_edges[prev_corner];
-          sharp_edges[prev_edge == edge_prev ? prev_edge : edge] = true;
+          sharp_edges[prev_edge == edge_prev ? prev_edge : edge] = false;
 
           org_nor = nor;
         }
@@ -1411,7 +1411,7 @@ static void mesh_normals_corner_custom_set(const Span<float3> positions,
           const int edge = corner_edges[lidx];
           const int edge_prev = corner_edges[corner_prev];
           const int prev_edge = corner_edges[prev_corner];
-          sharp_edges[prev_edge == edge_prev ? prev_edge : edge] = true;
+          sharp_edges[prev_edge == edge_prev ? prev_edge : edge] = false;
         }
       }
     }
Worth mentioning that exporting the FBX from 4.0 and then importing in 4.1 has the correct result (this then also does not mark edges as sharp). But I also checked if just omitting setting sharp edges upon setting custom normals in 4.1 (see the below hack) would fix this with the original FBX -- and it does not get rid of the problem... ```diff diff --git a/source/blender/blenkernel/intern/mesh_normals.cc b/source/blender/blenkernel/intern/mesh_normals.cc index 974b0815e17..c6c09b69d94 100644 --- a/source/blender/blenkernel/intern/mesh_normals.cc +++ b/source/blender/blenkernel/intern/mesh_normals.cc @@ -1388,7 +1388,7 @@ static void mesh_normals_corner_custom_set(const Span<float3> positions, const int edge = corner_edges[lidx]; const int edge_prev = corner_edges[corner_prev]; const int prev_edge = corner_edges[prev_corner]; - sharp_edges[prev_edge == edge_prev ? prev_edge : edge] = true; + sharp_edges[prev_edge == edge_prev ? prev_edge : edge] = false; org_nor = nor; } @@ -1411,7 +1411,7 @@ static void mesh_normals_corner_custom_set(const Span<float3> positions, const int edge = corner_edges[lidx]; const int edge_prev = corner_edges[corner_prev]; const int prev_edge = corner_edges[prev_corner]; - sharp_edges[prev_edge == edge_prev ? prev_edge : edge] = true; + sharp_edges[prev_edge == edge_prev ? prev_edge : edge] = false; } } } ```
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Reference: blender/blender#120590
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