Cycle's persistent data still corrupts all armatures whenever you do a render. #125594

New Issue

LOIC BRAMOULLE · 2024-07-29T11:09:18+02:00

LOIC BRAMOULLE commented

2024-07-29 11:09:18 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19045-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.6.0 NVIDIA 560.70

Blender Version
Broken: version: 4.2.0, branch: blender-v4.2-release, commit date: 2024-07-16 06:20, hash: a51f293548ad
Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected)

Short description of error
Armatures will snap into the last render's position/values/frame whenever entering pose mode, or clicking a bone. moving in timeline re-snaps the armature to its real values/pose.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Have animation on a rig.
Render, with persistent data.
Now entering pose mode and/or selecting any bone, will snap the armature into the pose it has on the last rendered frame.

You might not be able to reproduce this straight away, it happens after a while only, BUT it happened to me on every single projects since I reported this bug 1 years ago, which was confirmed (something in the guts of blender/cycles does that.) So it WILL happen, not matter the style of project, the kind of rig (AutoRigPro, Rigify, ect.. doesn't matter.)

https://capture.dropbox.com/noTjerkumfvHfdhE

Here was the whole thread where we managed to pinpoint the bug, there might have been other thread as it was very chaotic with lots of attempts to understand this crazy issue.
blender/blender#105873

The workaround: deactivate persistent data, render with cycles. SOLVED. until next render. (even if you were on Eevee the bug still will occur, as long as one Cycle render was done with persistent data.)

I was sure the bug was solved last year but no it's still in 4.2 !

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19045-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.6.0 NVIDIA 560.70 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 4.2.0, branch: blender-v4.2-release, commit date: 2024-07-16 06:20, hash: `a51f293548ad` Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected) **Short description of error** Armatures will snap into the last render's position/values/frame whenever entering pose mode, or clicking a bone. moving in timeline re-snaps the armature to its real values/pose. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** 1. Have animation on a rig. 2. Render, with persistent data. 3. Now entering pose mode and/or selecting any bone, will snap the armature into the pose it has on the last rendered frame. You might not be able to reproduce this straight away, it happens after a while only, BUT it happened to me on every single projects since I reported this bug 1 years ago, which was confirmed (something in the guts of blender/cycles does that.) So it WILL happen, not matter the style of project, the kind of rig (AutoRigPro, Rigify, ect.. doesn't matter.) https://capture.dropbox.com/noTjerkumfvHfdhE Here was the whole thread where we managed to pinpoint the bug, there might have been other thread as it was very chaotic with lots of attempts to understand this crazy issue. blender/blender#105873 The workaround: deactivate persistent data, render with cycles. SOLVED. until next render. (even if you were on Eevee the bug still will occur, as long as one Cycle render was done with persistent data.) I was sure the bug was solved last year but no it's still in 4.2 !

Enregistrement du 2024-07-29 à 05.50.13.mp4

9.0 MiB

LOIC BRAMOULLE added the

labels 2024-07-29 11:09:19 +02:00

LOIC BRAMOULLE commented

2024-07-29 11:13:16 +02:00

This is the current encounter of the bug in 4.2, it will likely trigger on your end too if persistent data is allowed to store this ghost of the armature:
https://www.dropbox.com/t/i84lOVQJBABpXY5z
And here is the first encounters from a year ago, I think the bug is still there, but maybe the persistetn data is only on my disk. The bug was still there 6 months after I did the image render that matched the frame where the armature ghosts:
https://www.dropbox.com/t/p4IrdRe1NIhY0a9m

https://www.dropbox.com/t/aTCfC4HBKGgh7LmF

This is the current encounter of the bug in 4.2, it will likely trigger on your end too if persistent data is allowed to store this ghost of the armature: https://www.dropbox.com/t/i84lOVQJBABpXY5z And here is the first encounters from a year ago, I think the bug is still there, but maybe the persistetn data is only on my disk. The bug was still there 6 months after I did the image render that matched the frame where the armature ghosts: https://www.dropbox.com/t/p4IrdRe1NIhY0a9m https://www.dropbox.com/t/aTCfC4HBKGgh7LmF

Richard Antalik commented

2024-07-31 05:05:42 +02:00

@loicbramoulle Is this issue different from #105873? The report is still open, so I am not sure it was fixed yet. I have a bunch of old builds, so I can check if the report was fixed in past and re-introduced. Not sure if that would be useful if the issue is the same.

LOIC BRAMOULLE commented

2024-07-31 05:21:38 +02:00

Hi, ow I see, I assumed the report was long forgotten since last year. I think it is the same bug, but on that other report it was a very different case, much more complex and hard to decipher.
As there was a shader node referencing an empty parented to an armature, and that was a false lead I think.
The bottom line is Cycles persistent data is the culprit. Dunno how, but that's the common clear direct toggle On/Off source of all these instances I encountered the bug, in 4 totally different projects.
So I think it's just still there since at least 3.6 last year yes.
Thanks!

Hi, ow I see, I assumed the report was long forgotten since last year. I think it is the same bug, but on that other report it was a very different case, much more complex and hard to decipher. As there was a shader node referencing an empty parented to an armature, and that was a false lead I think. The bottom line is Cycles persistent data is the culprit. Dunno how, but that's the common clear direct toggle On/Off source of all these instances I encountered the bug, in 4 totally different projects. So I think it's just still there since at least 3.6 last year yes. Thanks!

Richard Antalik commented

2024-08-01 01:21:26 +02:00

Thanks for clarification. I don't think, that #105873 is too misleading. Developer is mostly interested in steps to reproduce the issue and file complexity. There there are 2 steps, 3MB file and 100% reproducibility. Here you suggest it may not be 100% with seemingly more complex file.

I can try to investigate that report bit deeper in hope that it will move along more quickly.

Thanks for clarification. I don't think, that #105873 is too misleading. Developer is mostly interested in steps to reproduce the issue and file complexity. There there are 2 steps, 3MB file and 100% reproducibility. Here you suggest it may not be 100% with seemingly more complex file. I can try to investigate that report bit deeper in hope that it will move along more quickly.

Philipp Oeser commented

2024-08-05 09:55:27 +02:00

I think the report description is more accurate in this report, so it might make sense to update the description in #105873 ?

Richard Antalik commented

2024-08-05 10:39:11 +02:00

Actually, I did bit more digging and found, that this probably has nothing to do with persistent data. But forgot to change status, because I need confirmation of my findings and new steps to reproduce.

In any case, this is duplicate report, so will close it.

Actually, I did bit more digging and found, that this probably has nothing to do with persistent data. But forgot to change status, because I need confirmation of my findings and new steps to reproduce. In any case, this is duplicate report, so will close it.

Richard Antalik closed this issue

2024-08-05 10:39:27 +02:00

Blender Bot added

and removed

labels 2024-08-05 10:39:30 +02:00

LOIC BRAMOULLE commented

2024-08-05 18:32:12 +02:00

Actually, I did bit more digging and found, that this probably has nothing to do with persistent data. But forgot to change status, because I need confirmation of my findings and new steps to reproduce.

In any case, this is duplicate report, so will close it.

@iss
Just to be clear, this is absolutely connected to persistent data, I have this bug around once per week, on all 4 projects I've worked on since two years, and before knowing if was persistent data, the projects were basically dead, files 100% corrupted, impossible to edit any animation data/armature.
The instant I realized it was persistent data, I could solve the bug in less than 10 seconds each time it appeared:
-> just render with cycles (even if current is eevee) by first disabling persistent data, to flush it, to release the last frame on all armatures that was corrupting the actions/armatures whenever they were touched (entering pose more or selecting a bone.)

I don't know exactly why it happens, but it will happen on all projects, just have animated characters, cycles persistent data, and in a few days of work when you re-open your file and go into pose mode, the character(s) will jump into the pose they had during the last cycles render. 100% guaranteed based on zero projects not displaying this bug at some point, in my experience over the last two years.
And one project I didn't create the files or do the render, I just opened it, and the bug was there. Disabled persistent data, rendered (don't even have to wait the end, only the part where data gets loaded onto the VRAM.), and the issue was solved each time.

So I'm not fighting to see this bug solved for myself, but for anyone else who would encounter it see their project ruined, if they don't find out or access the information that this is caused by Cycles persistent data.

> Actually, I did bit more digging and found, that this probably has nothing to do with persistent data. But forgot to change status, because I need confirmation of my findings and new steps to reproduce. > > In any case, this is duplicate report, so will close it. @iss Just to be clear, this is absolutely connected to persistent data, I have this bug around once per week, on all 4 projects I've worked on since two years, and before knowing if was persistent data, the projects were basically dead, files 100% corrupted, impossible to edit any animation data/armature. The instant I realized it was persistent data, I could solve the bug in less than 10 seconds each time it appeared: -> just render with cycles (even if current is eevee) by first disabling persistent data, to flush it, to release the last frame on all armatures that was corrupting the actions/armatures whenever they were touched (entering pose more or selecting a bone.) I don't know exactly why it happens, but it will happen on all projects, just have animated characters, cycles persistent data, and in a few days of work when you re-open your file and go into pose mode, the character(s) will jump into the pose they had during the last cycles render. 100% guaranteed based on zero projects not displaying this bug at some point, in my experience over the last two years. And one project I didn't create the files or do the render, I just opened it, and the bug was there. Disabled persistent data, rendered (don't even have to wait the end, only the part where data gets loaded onto the VRAM.), and the issue was solved each time. So I'm not fighting to see this bug solved for myself, but for anyone else who would encounter it see their project **ruined**, if they don't find out or access the information that this is caused by Cycles **persistent data**.

Richard Antalik commented

2024-08-06 06:53:14 +02:00

I want to resolve this issue, but I would prefer to continue discussion in #105873. I have found how these files can be fixed and would like you to check that before digging further.

It could be caused by persistent data, but personally I would bet on some addon. In any case, it looks like something is setting data that should not be set.

I want to resolve this issue, but I would prefer to continue discussion in #105873. I have found how these files can be fixed and would like you to check that before digging further. It could be caused by persistent data, but personally I would bet on some addon. In any case, it looks like something is setting data that should not be set.

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Cycle's persistent data still corrupts all armatures whenever you do a render. #125594