Does not work when collection 'holdout' is set to 'indirect only' #66362

New Issue

a · 2019-07-03T04:31:46+02:00

a commented

2019-07-03 04:31:46 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: MacOS10.14.5
Graphics card: AMD Radeon Pro 580X OpenGL Engine ATI Technologies Inc. 4.1 ATI-2.9.26

Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.80 (sub 74), branch: master, commit date: 2019-07-02 22:33, hash: 50ccbe6bb2
Worked: (optional)

Short description of error
Previously reported, but the latest version has not been fixed
Report again with the video file, as the previous report does not recognize the problem
Hold out.mp4
Does not work when collection 'holdout' is set to 'indirect only'

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Register an object in the collection
Set the holdout for that collection
Render (holdout works)
Set "indirect only" of the collection in that state
Render (holdout does not work, only "indirect" works)

**System Information** Operating system: MacOS10.14.5 Graphics card: AMD Radeon Pro 580X OpenGL Engine ATI Technologies Inc. 4.1 ATI-2.9.26 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 2.80 (sub 74), branch: master, commit date: 2019-07-02 22:33, hash: `50ccbe6bb2` Worked: (optional) **Short description of error** Previously reported, but the latest version has not been fixed Report again with the video file, as the previous report does not recognize the problem [Hold out.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7563064/Hold_out.mp4) Does not work when collection 'holdout' is set to 'indirect only' **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** 1. Register an object in the collection 2. Set the holdout for that collection 3. Render (holdout works) 4. Set "indirect only" of the collection in that state 5. Render (holdout does not work, only "indirect" works)

a commented

2019-07-03 04:31:46 +02:00

Added subscriber: @box_channel

blender-admin commented

2019-07-03 04:31:46 +02:00

#70668 was marked as duplicate of this issue

Sam Brubaker commented

2019-07-03 05:24:31 +02:00

Added subscriber: @rocketman

Sam Brubaker commented

2019-07-03 05:24:31 +02:00

This looks like the expected behavior to me. "Indirect Only" means that the collection casts shadows and reflections, but does not appear directly. If the object appeared as a holdout, that would be direct shading.

What is the result you were expecting?

This looks like the expected behavior to me. "Indirect Only" means that the collection casts shadows and reflections, but does not appear directly. If the object appeared as a holdout, that would be direct shading. What is the result you were expecting?

Sebastian Koenig commented

2019-07-03 08:54:44 +02:00

Added subscriber: @sebastian_k

Sebastian Koenig commented

2019-07-03 08:54:44 +02:00

I agree that this looks like a bug, or at least it's not the logical behavior.
I would expect Holdout to "override" Indirect Only.
With Indirect Only you see only the indirect influence of the object.
With Holdout you see the indirect influence of the object to the scene, but also it cuts a hole in the render, so to speak.
So funtionality wise Indirect Only is included in Holdout. So if both are activated, I think it should be rendered as holdout.

I agree that this looks like a bug, or at least it's not the logical behavior. I would expect Holdout to "override" Indirect Only. With Indirect Only you see only the indirect influence of the object. With Holdout you see the indirect influence of the object to the scene, but *also* it cuts a hole in the render, so to speak. So funtionality wise Indirect Only is included in Holdout. So if both are activated, I think it should be rendered as holdout.

Marcus Papathoma commented

2019-07-03 09:37:56 +02:00

Added subscriber: @machieb

Marcus Papathoma commented

2019-07-03 09:37:56 +02:00

As I know its not intended to check indirect only and holdout together?!

a commented

2019-07-03 10:19:58 +02:00

My opinion is simple
If Holdout is on, "Holdout" should work
If "indirect only" takes precedence, "Holdout" should be turned off automatically in the UI
It is very difficult to understand that it doesn't work even though "Holdout" is on
This is the same even if "Holdout" is given priority
In that case, "indirect only" should be turned off automatically
It should be clearly indicated on the UI that only one side can be used like an electrical switch

My opinion is simple If Holdout is on, "Holdout" should work If "indirect only" takes precedence, "Holdout" should be turned off automatically in the UI It is very difficult to understand that it doesn't work even though "Holdout" is on This is the same even if "Holdout" is given priority In that case, "indirect only" should be turned off automatically It should be clearly indicated on the UI that only one side can be used like an electrical switch

a commented

2019-07-03 10:46:05 +02:00

I also want to ask
Why did you create a UI that can turn both on, but only one can be used?
If you can only use one, you should change the UI

I also want to ask Why did you create a UI that can turn both on, but only one can be used? If you can only use one, you should change the UI

a commented

2019-07-03 16:32:36 +02:00

This is the video of blender2.79b
I think the same situation as setting "Indirect only" and "Holdout" in blender 2.8 at the same time, but "Holdout" is working
Why did the behavior change in blender 2.8?
This is the reason I think is a bug
2.79b.mp4

This is the video of blender2.79b I think the same situation as setting "Indirect only" and "Holdout" in blender 2.8 at the same time, but "Holdout" is working Why did the behavior change in blender 2.8? This is the reason I think is a bug [2.79b.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7564381/2.79b.mp4)

Sam Brubaker commented

2019-07-04 02:42:50 +02:00

I understand now, and I agree that this is not ideal behavior.

I also noticed another regression related to this matter: In 2.7, it is possible to use a layer as a holdout without indirectly affecting the scene by using the Exclude feature:

It is common to want a holdout that does not contribute indirectly to the render, but there is no easy way of doing this in 2.8! You can disable the ray visibility for each object in the collection, but that is tedious and interferes with those objects being rendered elsewhere. Perhaps a solution could be implemented that fixes both these issues:

If "Holdout" is enabled for a collection, then the function of the "Indirect Only" setting should change, so that the collection eitherdoes or does notcontribute indirectly to the scene.

I will leave this decision to a developer.

I understand now, and I agree that this is not ideal behavior. I also noticed another regression related to this matter: In 2.7, it is possible to use a layer as a holdout *without* indirectly affecting the scene by using the Exclude feature: ![screen.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7565664/screen.png) It is common to want a holdout that does not contribute indirectly to the render, but there is no easy way of doing this in 2.8! You can disable the ray visibility for each object in the collection, but that is tedious and interferes with those objects being rendered elsewhere. Perhaps a solution could be implemented that fixes both these issues: *If "Holdout" is enabled for a collection, then the function of the "Indirect Only" setting should change, so that the collection either*does or does not*contribute indirectly to the scene.* I will leave this decision to a developer.

Philipp Oeser commented

2019-07-04 14:49:59 +02:00

Added subscribers: @brecht, @lichtwerk

Philipp Oeser commented

2019-07-04 14:49:59 +02:00

@brecht: is this something you could look at or decide upon?

2.8 holdout + indirect only: looks like a bug to me [I am with @sebastian_k here]
2.79 exclude + mask "feature missing": this apparently already changed from 2.79b to 2.79 branch? (in the current branch, seems like setting a layer to both exclude and mask will at least render it's shadows...)

@brecht: is this something you could look at or decide upon? - 2.8 holdout + indirect only: looks like a bug to me [I am with @sebastian_k here] - 2.79 exclude + mask "feature missing": this apparently already changed from 2.79b to 2.79 branch? (in the current branch, seems like setting a layer to both exclude and mask will at least render it's shadows...)

Brecht Van Lommel self-assigned this 2019-07-04 17:17:26 +02:00

blender-admin commented

2019-07-04 17:28:39 +02:00

This issue was referenced by blender/cycles@d182dc418a

This issue was referenced by blender/cycles@d182dc418aaee8f440c8f28dbc84738e96f2b62b

blender-admin commented

2019-07-04 17:28:39 +02:00

This issue was referenced by 2740bdfff9

This issue was referenced by 2740bdfff9f38807301fb3ee4d6a4949d8d8bb20

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2019-07-04 17:32:38 +02:00

The behavior regarding exclude is a known limitation at the moment, there is a comment in the code about it. The dependency graph does not evaluate the excluded objects at all so this requires a different design.

The holdout + indirect only behavior I can fix.

The behavior regarding exclude is a known limitation at the moment, there is a comment in the code about it. The dependency graph does not evaluate the excluded objects at all so this requires a different design. The holdout + indirect only behavior I can fix.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2019-07-04 18:17:04 +02:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Resolved'

Brecht Van Lommel closed this issue

2019-07-04 18:17:04 +02:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2019-10-10 16:20:28 +02:00

Added subscriber: @RainerTrummer

Daniele De Luca commented

2021-07-13 23:47:04 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Sparazza

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Does not work when collection 'holdout' is set to 'indirect only' #66362