File Browser GUI: Planned Changes for 2.81 #69652

New Issue

Julian Eisel · 2019-09-08T22:50:57+02:00

Julian Eisel commented

2019-09-08 22:50:57 +02:00

File Browser GUI: Planned Changes for 2.81

After the recent file browser UI design overhaul, we have a couple of TODOs stemming from own plans and user feedback.

These we should probably do for 2.81:

- Add + and - buttons inside the name field (828905190e, 2aa3e9c67c)
- Store the last used File Browser settings (display type, thumbnail size etc). Store inside Preferences, just like Quick Favorites. (ddb157999e)
- Make the Options sidebar open by default when saving images, link/append, and possibly others (28ee0f97c3)
- Add preference for each temp window to either open as a window or the old full window temp state. (also move Render window option to Preferences for consistency then - 95373e2749, f5bbaf55ac, cac756a92a)
- Add click-in-empty-area-to-deselect to File Browser (42c062c98a)
- Better handling of temp windows, so they don’t ’steal’ each others windows (#69819, edffb0e9b1)
- Better handling of secondary windows so they always display on top (#69819, edffb0e9b1)
- Don't use full width for upper bar, "indent" it by the left hand region to move the navigation buttons closer to the file list (57519f237a)
- Add back Delete & make it use the system Trash (D4585)

Open Topics

~~- Smarter file path controls that work like clickable breadcrumbs, which also allow you to double-click or click on empty space in it to edit as text~~ Delayed, we'll first try how just bringing the navigation icons closer to the file list works.

We'd like to experiment with this as an alternative to bringing back the `..` item.

- Find & implement a better way to expose file operator options (adfe68e202)

We didn't want to expose a huge empty side-bar for common cases like save & open, when there are really few settings. So idea was to have the sidebar hidden by default for these, with a prominent way to open it. That's why a big button on the left side-bar was chosen, with the obvious trade-off being that it opens a region on the right. We should re-evaluate on that and decide on a better solution, the trade-off is too apparent.

- Search and file path buttons are barely usable in small areas, needs a solution (98c0d16da5)


We could make the contents a bit more responsive, so buttons are moved into a menu if space is tight. Or we merge the file path and the search button so that when clicking on a search icon button, the file path button turns into the search button.

# File Browser GUI: Planned Changes for 2.81 After the recent file browser UI design overhaul, we have a couple of TODOs stemming from own plans and user feedback. These we should probably do for 2.81: - - [x] Add + and - buttons inside the name field (828905190e1, 2aa3e9c67c) - - [x] Store the last used File Browser settings (display type, thumbnail size etc). Store inside Preferences, just like Quick Favorites. (ddb157999e) - - [x] Make the Options sidebar open by default when saving images, link/append, and possibly others (28ee0f97c33b) - - [x] Add preference for each temp window to either open as a window or the old full window temp state. (also move Render window option to Preferences for consistency then - 95373e2749, f5bbaf55ac, cac756a92a) - - [x] Add click-in-empty-area-to-deselect to File Browser (42c062c98a) - - [x] Better handling of temp windows, so they don’t ’steal’ each others windows (#69819, edffb0e9b1) - - [x] Better handling of secondary windows so they always display on top (#69819, edffb0e9b1) - - [x] Don't use full width for upper bar, "indent" it by the left hand region to move the navigation buttons closer to the file list (57519f237a) - - [x] Add back Delete & make it use the system Trash ([D4585](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D4585)) ## Open Topics - ~~- [ ] Smarter file path controls that work like clickable breadcrumbs, which also allow you to double-click or click on empty space in it to edit as text~~ *Delayed, we'll first try how just bringing the navigation icons closer to the file list works.* ``` We'd like to experiment with this as an alternative to bringing back the `..` item. ``` - - [x] Find & implement a better way to expose file operator options (adfe68e202) ``` We didn't want to expose a huge empty side-bar for common cases like save & open, when there are really few settings. So idea was to have the sidebar hidden by default for these, with a prominent way to open it. That's why a big button on the left side-bar was chosen, with the obvious trade-off being that it opens a region on the right. We should re-evaluate on that and decide on a better solution, the trade-off is too apparent. ``` - - [x] Search and file path buttons are barely usable in small areas, needs a solution (98c0d16da5) ``` We could make the contents a bit more responsive, so buttons are moved into a menu if space is tight. Or we merge the file path and the search button so that when clicking on a search icon button, the file path button turns into the search button.

Julian Eisel self-assigned this 2019-09-08 22:50:57 +02:00

Julian Eisel commented

2019-09-08 22:50:57 +02:00

Added subscribers: @JulianEisel, @WilliamReynish

William Reynish commented

2019-09-08 23:26:09 +02:00

Another very small change we could do, is to make the Options button a toggle, and put it in the top right

Another very small change we could do, is to make the Options button a toggle, and put it in the top right ![Screenshot 2019-09-06 at 16.56.37.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7725198/Screenshot_2019-09-06_at_16.56.37.png)

Sebastian Parborg commented

2019-09-09 11:40:24 +02:00

Added subscriber: @ZedDB

Sebastian Parborg commented

2019-09-09 11:40:24 +02:00

I like that location @billreynish.

Perhaps we could also make the search field be like in nautilus?

If you click the search button (magnifying glass or hit ctrl + f or simply /) the path filed fill turn into a search input field.
This way we save space.

For the breadcrumbs, perhaps we could simply have a text string as it is now, but the folder name under the cursor will be highlighted. So when you click in the input field while a folder is highlighted, it will navigate to that folder.

I like that location @billreynish. Perhaps we could also make the search field be like in nautilus? ![nautilus_interface.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7726614/nautilus_interface.jpg) If you click the search button (magnifying glass or hit ctrl + f or simply `/`) the path filed fill turn into a search input field. This way we save space. For the breadcrumbs, perhaps we could simply have a text string as it is now, but the folder name under the cursor will be highlighted. So when you click in the input field while a folder is highlighted, it will navigate to that folder.

William Reynish commented

2019-09-09 16:53:49 +02:00

Could also add a warning before saving over other files. Currently you can very easily accidentally overwrite existing files with no warning, other than the red name field.

Piotr commented

2019-09-09 17:29:07 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Pinnhead

Piotr commented

2019-09-09 17:29:07 +02:00

Maybe feature to double click an empty area to parent directory?

Christina McKay commented

2019-09-09 18:58:02 +02:00

Added subscriber: @CMC

Julian Eisel commented

2019-09-10 12:22:54 +02:00

In #69652#772193, @Pinnhead wrote:
Maybe feature to double click an empty area to parent directory?

I'd find that a bit obscure and more importantly confusing. Double clicking at the wrong place would then jump directories, without being obvious why and where it jumped to (users might have to remember and check the file path to find out).

Using empty space in file browser is a bit troublesome anyway: What is the empty space? Is it only at places where no file is highlighted? That would leave us with very little empty space when there are many files, or when they cover the view (very common). People would still ask for a better way to go to the parent directory.
Or does it include empty space of highlighted items? Then it would be easy to accidentally invoke the wrong double-click action.
There's a good reason for click-in-empty-area-to-deselect, and that is consistency. But on it's own it is not reliable enough for the file browser, there needs to be a more reliable way to quickly deselect too (i.e. {nav Alt} {nav A}).

> In #69652#772193, @Pinnhead wrote: > Maybe feature to double click an empty area to parent directory? I'd find that a bit obscure and more importantly confusing. Double clicking at the wrong place would then jump directories, without being obvious why and where it jumped to (users might have to remember and check the file path to find out). Using empty space in file browser is a bit troublesome anyway: What is the empty space? Is it only at places where no file is highlighted? That would leave us with very little empty space when there are many files, or when they cover the view (very common). People would still ask for a better way to go to the parent directory. Or does it include empty space of highlighted items? Then it would be easy to accidentally invoke the wrong double-click action. There's a good reason for click-in-empty-area-to-deselect, and that is consistency. But on it's own it is not reliable enough for the file browser, there needs to be a more reliable way to quickly deselect too (i.e. {nav Alt} {nav A}).

Piotr commented

2019-09-10 13:38:42 +02:00

Now blender file browser use full line selection and clicking on empty space in this mode is useless. Especially when a lot of files are displayed in the window.
For example in Directory Opus (windows explorer replacement program) i use selection only on filename and have a lot of empty space and its very easy to go parent by double clicking on empty space.

Anim gif:

Now blender file browser use full line selection and clicking on empty space in this mode is useless. Especially when a lot of files are displayed in the window. For example in Directory Opus (windows explorer replacement program) i use selection only on filename and have a lot of empty space and its very easy to go parent by double clicking on empty space. Anim gif: ![9QS8ZmxP2h.gif](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7730755/9QS8ZmxP2h.gif)

pan beep commented

2019-09-11 00:46:06 +02:00

Added subscriber: @MrBeep

pan beep commented

2019-09-11 00:46:06 +02:00

The new File Browser window is one step forward and few backwards:

it is great it opens as separate window – this took so long to implement. Finally it is here. Thank you for that!
the window does not remember previous opened size. People have large displays and want to use that space. Tiny windows like this and like preferences is not a welcome usability fix.
there is missing Up arrow with two dots .. over files list that allowed to quickly go back. Using only the arrow up that is farther away is a bad idea. Since it was feasible before why it is not now?
opening a folder using single click was a great Blender's feature. Now it's removed. Why?
monochromatic, same colour icons makes a list one mess. Why can you introduce colours for folders, blend and image files? It would help so much to distinguish what is what at first look.

The new File Browser window is one step forward and few backwards: - it is great it opens as separate window – this took so long to implement. Finally it is here. Thank you for that! - the window does not remember previous opened size. People have large displays and want to use that space. Tiny windows like this and like preferences is not a welcome usability fix. - there is missing Up arrow with two dots **..** over files list that allowed to quickly go back. Using only the arrow up that is farther away is a bad idea. Since it was feasible before why it is not now? - opening a folder using single click was a great Blender's feature. Now it's removed. Why? - monochromatic, same colour icons makes a list one mess. Why can you introduce colours for folders, blend and image files? It would help so much to distinguish what is what at first look.

Sebstian commented

2019-09-11 07:52:30 +02:00

Added subscriber: @bosman

Sebstian commented

2019-09-11 07:52:30 +02:00

I agree with most of the changes, but after using the Blender for over 10 years I think:

icons are better way to sort/filter files than popovers. One click, fast and visible.
two dots (as up arrow) is needed.

I agree with most of the changes, but after using the Blender for over 10 years I think: - icons are better way to sort/filter files than popovers. One click, fast and visible. - two dots (as up arrow) is needed. ![fbicons.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7733800/fbicons.jpg)

Sam Van Hulle commented

2019-09-11 11:43:53 +02:00

Added subscriber: @frameshift

Sam Van Hulle commented

2019-09-11 11:43:54 +02:00

Is there a reason for ea94cade2991 to be an unpublished commit?

tintwotin commented

2019-09-11 11:57:33 +02:00

Added subscriber: @tintwotin

tintwotin commented

2019-09-11 11:57:33 +02:00

In the Video Editor Workspace, the File Browser's path and search field are not useful unless you make the width of File Browser area fill half of the screen(1920x1080):

Minimum width for a 5 letter search:

So in other words, it's currently not really working for this purpose. Maybe it could be considered, in this case, to ex. move the path to the footer, move the search into the menu header, or make the File Browser area in the Video Editor wider?

In the Video Editor Workspace, the File Browser's path and search field are not useful unless you make the width of File Browser area fill half of the screen(1920x1080): ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7734587/image.png) Minimum width for a 5 letter search: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7734608/image.png) So in other words, it's currently not really working for this purpose. Maybe it could be considered, in this case, to ex. move the path to the footer, move the search into the menu header, or make the File Browser area in the Video Editor wider?

William Reynish commented

2019-09-11 11:57:44 +02:00

@frameshift On the contrary, there WAS a confirmation popup for creating new folders, but that is now removed.

Sam Van Hulle commented

2019-09-11 12:17:12 +02:00

In #69652#773519, @WilliamReynish wrote:
@frameshift On the contrary, there WAS a confirmation popup for creating new folders, but that is now removed.

Yes, I noticed the ea94cade2991 commit after I posted my comment (hence my edit). But it's unpublished for some reason. I believe that's why the confirmation popup is still there? Just pointing it out.

> In #69652#773519, @WilliamReynish wrote: > @frameshift On the contrary, there WAS a confirmation popup for creating new folders, but that is now removed. Yes, I noticed the ea94cade2991 commit after I posted my comment (hence my edit). But it's unpublished for some reason. I believe that's why the confirmation popup is still there? Just pointing it out.

Julian Eisel commented

2019-09-11 12:25:42 +02:00

Any design feedback not strictly about the points mentioned here should go to the design task, #62971. Here we only list the TODOs for 2.81, and maybe try to find solutions to the mentioned open topics.

In #69652#773312, @MrBeep wrote:

the window does not remember previous opened size. People have large displays and want to use that space. Tiny windows like this and like preferences is not a welcome usability fix.

there is missing Up arrow with two dots .. over files list that allowed to quickly go back. Using only the arrow up that is farther away is a bad idea. Since it was feasible before why it is not now?

The description of this very task explains the plans regarding these.

opening a folder using single click was a great Blender's feature. Now it's removed. Why?

It was confusing & inconsistent (clicking on regular files invoked a different action than clicking on folders)
With LMB-select there would be no good way to select directories without opening them
It's what users expect coming from common file browsers

I get that some prefer the old behavior, but it's no good choice for a default IMO. If users really want it, they just have to enable the Open toggle in the file.select keymap item.

monochromatic, same colour icons makes a list one mess. Why can you introduce colours for folders, blend and image files? It would help so much to distinguish what is what at first look.

If you check latest master, there have been some changes.

@tintwotin agree, it's not great, it's even worse than I thought. Will add to the 2.81 TODOs.

@frameshift All non-master commits are "unpublished" since a while now, but that's just a phabricator display thing, has nothing to do with the actual changes. It's broken for a different reason, I need to check why.

Any design feedback not strictly about the points mentioned here should go to the design task, #62971. Here we only list the TODOs for 2.81, and maybe try to find solutions to the mentioned open topics. ---- > In #69652#773312, @MrBeep wrote: > - the window does not remember previous opened size. People have large displays and want to use that space. Tiny windows like this and like preferences is not a welcome usability fix. > - there is missing Up arrow with two dots **..** over files list that allowed to quickly go back. Using only the arrow up that is farther away is a bad idea. Since it was feasible before why it is not now? The description of this very task explains the plans regarding these. > - opening a folder using single click was a great Blender's feature. Now it's removed. Why? * It was confusing & inconsistent (clicking on regular files invoked a different action than clicking on folders) * With LMB-select there would be no good way to select directories without opening them * It's what users expect coming from common file browsers I get that some prefer the old behavior, but it's no good choice for a default IMO. If users really want it, they just have to enable the *Open* toggle in the `file.select` keymap item. > - monochromatic, same colour icons makes a list one mess. Why can you introduce colours for folders, blend and image files? It would help so much to distinguish what is what at first look. If you check latest master, there have been some changes. --- @tintwotin agree, it's not great, it's even worse than I thought. Will add to the 2.81 TODOs. ---- @frameshift All non-master commits are "unpublished" since a while now, but that's just a phabricator display thing, has nothing to do with the actual changes. It's broken for a different reason, I need to check why.

pan beep commented

2019-09-11 12:42:37 +02:00

In #69652#773544, @JulianEisel wrote:
Any design feedback not strictly about the points mentioned here should go to the design task, #62971. Here we only list the TODOs for 2.81, and maybe try to find solutions to the mentioned open topics.

Thanks for the reply, I will continue in the design task discussion.

> In #69652#773544, @JulianEisel wrote: > Any design feedback not strictly about the points mentioned here should go to the design task, #62971. Here we only list the TODOs for 2.81, and maybe try to find solutions to the mentioned open topics. > Thanks for the reply, I will continue in the design task discussion.

Sam Van Hulle commented

2019-09-11 16:25:02 +02:00

All non-master commits are "unpublished" since a while now

@WilliamReynish Ah, 'non-master'. Didn't spot that before. I haven't said anything!

> All non-master commits are "unpublished" since a while now @WilliamReynish Ah, 'non-master'. Didn't spot that before. I haven't said anything!

Piotr commented

2019-09-11 17:44:04 +02:00

![blender_nVHa6y6vdT.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7735539/blender_nVHa6y6vdT.png)

pan beep commented

2019-09-11 17:47:43 +02:00

Removed subscriber: @MrBeep

Pieter Schiettecatte commented

2019-09-13 17:24:41 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Schiette

Pieter Schiettecatte commented

2019-09-13 17:24:41 +02:00

Speaking as a very new blender user (2.80 convinced me to switch), I have found the file browser hard to use. Mostly these two issues:

Because the filepath path at the top doesn't work similar to the windows 10 one (clickeable bread crumbs). I found it hard to navigate back a few levels/folders. Hopefully that will be changed.
The way the drives are sorted at the left side (volumes vs system) feels a bit unexpected for me (windows user). I would expect that those two panels are merged into one (treeview) window similar to how explorer works on windows.

I know I'm looking at this with the bias from a windows user, but still wanted to share my experiences as a very novice user learning to know blender.

Speaking as a very new blender user (2.80 convinced me to switch), I have found the file browser hard to use. Mostly these two issues: - Because the filepath path at the top doesn't work similar to the windows 10 one (clickeable bread crumbs). I found it hard to navigate back a few levels/folders. Hopefully that will be changed. - The way the drives are sorted at the left side (volumes vs system) feels a bit unexpected for me (windows user). I would expect that those two panels are merged into one (treeview) window similar to how explorer works on windows. I know I'm looking at this with the bias from a windows user, but still wanted to share my experiences as a very novice user learning to know blender.

blender-admin commented

2019-09-19 16:14:47 +02:00

This issue was referenced by 5e2f0adb1b

This issue was referenced by 5e2f0adb1b9c8df45e00be579e20144b3972b53b

J commented

2019-09-29 12:16:43 +02:00

Added subscriber: @madaxel

J commented

2019-09-29 12:16:43 +02:00

This comment was removed by @madaxel

*This comment was removed by @madaxel*

blender-admin commented

2019-09-29 20:16:19 +02:00

This issue was referenced by 57519f237a

This issue was referenced by 57519f237a914aa2645c44bf86917c05f6e45e30

blender-admin commented

2019-09-29 20:32:07 +02:00

This issue was referenced by 98c0d16da5

This issue was referenced by 98c0d16da53ab45d1927b90429b45a558398cbf2

tintwotin commented

2019-09-29 20:42:06 +02:00

Removed subscriber: @tintwotin

J commented

2019-10-01 08:38:27 +02:00

Removed subscriber: @madaxel

Julian Eisel commented

2019-10-11 11:22:23 +02:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Resolved'

Julian Eisel closed this issue

2019-10-11 11:22:23 +02:00

Julian Eisel commented

2019-10-11 11:22:23 +02:00

So, BCon2 is over and we managed to get everything in!
The File Browser in 2.81 will be far from perfect, but it is a great improvement in many ways.

That is not to say that there aren't any remaining design issues to tackle, e.g. mouse travel in bigger or fullscreen File Browsers can still be reduced quite a bit.
I have ideas to address such things ready and I have a list of further improvements we would like to add at some point. But we do have to draw a line somewhere and move on to more pressuring tasks for a while.

Closing as all points were addressed.

So, BCon2 is over and we managed to get everything in! The File Browser in 2.81 will be far from perfect, but it is a great improvement in many ways. That is not to say that there aren't any remaining design issues to tackle, e.g. mouse travel in bigger or fullscreen File Browsers can still be reduced quite a bit. I have ideas to address such things ready and I have a list of further improvements we would like to add at some point. But we do have to draw a line somewhere and move on to more pressuring tasks for a while. Closing as all points were addressed.

Thomas Dinges added this to the 2.81 milestone 2023-02-08 16:46:57 +01:00

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File Browser GUI: Planned Changes for 2.81 #69652

File Browser GUI: Planned Changes for 2.81

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