Proposal for sequencer tool interactions #74561

New Issue

Campbell Barton · 2020-03-09T06:02:54+01:00

Campbell Barton commented

2020-03-09 06:02:54 +01:00

This task is intended to address design issues necessary for adding tool-system tools to the sequencer.

Current state:

Immediately activating actions with keys operates on the selection.
The only tool that isn't selection (Blade), operates on the sequence strip directly under the cursor (not the selection).

The patch proposed to add the Slip tool, was also isolating the strip under the cursor, which I think is overly limiting since it means tools which behave this way can't operate on more than one item at a time. see: D7063: VSE: Add slip tool

Proposes Solution

Tools should behave like the "Tweak" tool, unless there is a good reason not to (The blade tool could be kept an exception - although cutting multiple strips vertically might be useful to support too).

A single click selects (with Shift-Click to toggle... etc).
A click-drag action runs the tool on the selected strips.

This means the Slip tool (in this case), would behave much the same as the tweak tool. Where you could quickly operate on many different sequence strips by clicking and dragging on them. With the ability to select multiple then click-drag on any one of them to operate on all strips.

This task is intended to address design issues necessary for adding tool-system tools to the sequencer. Current state: - Immediately activating actions with keys operates on the selection. - The only tool that isn't selection (Blade), operates on the sequence strip directly under the cursor (not the selection). The patch proposed to add the Slip tool, was also isolating the strip under the cursor, which I think is overly limiting since it means tools which behave this way can't operate on more than one item at a time. see: [D7063: VSE: Add slip tool](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D7063) ---- ## Proposes Solution Tools should behave like the "Tweak" tool, unless there is a good reason not to *(The blade tool could be kept an exception - although cutting multiple strips vertically might be useful to support too)*. - A single click selects (with Shift-Click to toggle... etc). - A click-drag action runs the tool on the selected strips. This means the Slip tool (in this case), would behave much the same as the tweak tool. Where you could quickly operate on many different sequence strips by clicking and dragging on them. With the ability to select multiple then click-drag on any one of them to operate on all strips.

Richard Antalik was assigned by Campbell Barton

2020-03-09 06:02:54 +01:00

Campbell Barton commented

2020-03-09 06:02:54 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Campbell Barton commented

2020-03-09 06:02:54 +01:00

Added subscriber: @ideasman42

William Reynish commented

2020-03-09 07:26:13 +01:00

Added subscriber: @WilliamReynish

William Reynish commented

2020-03-09 07:26:13 +01:00

I disagree with this. It’s too error prone if you must always drag to execute tools, and for many tools it’s not even appropriate - see Blade tool.

Most video editing apps don’t work this way either.

For the Slip tool, it could just work so that it affects any clip you drag on, without a need for selection in the first place.

We could keep the ability to box select while tools like Slip are active, if you drag from outside a clip.

I disagree with this. It’s too error prone if you must always drag to execute tools, and for many tools it’s not even appropriate - see Blade tool. Most video editing apps don’t work this way either. For the Slip tool, it could just work so that it affects any clip you drag on, without a need for selection in the first place. We could keep the ability to box select while tools like Slip are active, if you drag from outside a clip.

Campbell Barton commented

2020-03-09 08:01:20 +01:00

In #74561#887286, @WilliamReynish wrote:
I disagree with this. It’s too error prone if you must always drag to execute tools,

Why? This is the case already for the 3D view, node, f-curve editor and for the tweak tool in the sequencer.

and for many tools it’s not even appropriate - see Blade tool.

As noted in the proposal, the blade tool can be an exception.

Most video editing apps don’t work this way either.

How do they allow operations on the entire selection?

Also, we should be careful copying other applications for a single editor, when the conventions we already have in Blender can be used.

For the Slip tool, it could just work so that it affects any clip you drag on, without a need for selection in the first place.

We could but it feels like we're having too many different kinds of interactions, where the tweak interaction can work.

We could keep the ability to box select while tools like Slip are active, if you drag from outside a clip.

I'm not sure how this helps - if the resulting selection is ignored by the tool.

> In #74561#887286, @WilliamReynish wrote: > I disagree with this. It’s too error prone if you must always drag to execute tools, Why? This is the case already for the 3D view, node, f-curve editor and for the tweak tool in the sequencer. > and for many tools it’s not even appropriate - see Blade tool. As noted in the proposal, the blade tool can be an exception. > Most video editing apps don’t work this way either. How do they allow operations on the entire selection? Also, we should be careful copying other applications for a single editor, when the conventions we already have in Blender can be used. > For the Slip tool, it could just work so that it affects any clip you drag on, without a need for selection in the first place. We could but it feels like we're having too many different kinds of interactions, where the tweak interaction can work. > We could keep the ability to box select while tools like Slip are active, if you drag from outside a clip. I'm not sure how this helps - if the resulting selection is ignored by the tool.

William Reynish commented

2020-03-09 09:06:27 +01:00

Well, in some ways this is almost a bit theoretical since for our current tools, Blade would act of click, and Slip would act on dragging.

The only practical difference here is if the Slip tool should react immediately or if it should way for a drag threshold because we also want to use that tool just for selecting items.

IMO, it's more important that the Slip tool is immediate. If users want to select clips, they could just box select from outside, which we could allow.

Well, in some ways this is almost a bit theoretical since for our current tools, Blade would act of click, and Slip would act on dragging. The only practical difference here is if the Slip tool should react immediately or if it should way for a drag threshold because we also want to use that tool just for selecting items. IMO, it's more important that the Slip tool is immediate. If users want to select clips, they could just box select from outside, which we could allow.

Campbell Barton commented

2020-03-09 09:50:33 +01:00

The only practical difference here is if the Slip tool should react immediately or if it should way for a drag threshold because we also want to use that tool just for selecting items.

I don't see why you're insisting on slip being immediate,
why this is more important for e.g. than move which also happens on drag?

The default drag threshold is very small, and used in many tools to distinguish between click & drag.

Tested this D7063 #168396 - it seems to work well enough here (allowing select, border select + slide on multiple strips).

> The only practical difference here is if the Slip tool should react immediately or if it should way for a drag threshold because we also want to use that tool just for selecting items. I don't see why you're insisting on slip being immediate, why this is more important for e.g. than move which also happens on drag? The default drag threshold is very small, and used in many tools to distinguish between click & drag. Tested this [D7063](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D7063)#168396 - it seems to work well enough here (allowing select, border select + slide on multiple strips).

Philipp Oeser removed the

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Proposal for sequencer tool interactions #74561

Proposes Solution