Particle Created at Object's Origin Even If No Face Is There #80739

New Issue

Jonathan Manton · 2020-09-13T06:55:49+02:00

Jonathan Manton commented

2020-09-13 06:55:49 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Both Windows and Linux
Graphics card: Various nVidia cards

Blender Version
Broken: 2.90
Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected)

Create an object with two separate components. Set its origin to somewhere strictly between the two components, so that the origin is not part of any face. Generate particles on that object. Then a particle can appear at the origin.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Create two planes. Space them apart. Join them. Set the joined object's origin to geometry. Put a particle system on it. Change end time to 1. Observe a particle is generated at the object's origin even though there is no face there.

Particle Bug.blend
system-info.txt

**System Information** Operating system: Both Windows and Linux Graphics card: Various nVidia cards **Blender Version** Broken: 2.90 Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected) Create an object with two separate components. Set its origin to somewhere strictly between the two components, so that the origin is not part of any face. Generate particles on that object. Then a particle can appear at the origin. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Create two planes. Space them apart. Join them. Set the joined object's origin to geometry. Put a particle system on it. Change end time to 1. Observe a particle is generated at the object's origin even though there is no face there. [Particle Bug.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8871196/Particle_Bug.blend) [system-info.txt](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8871198/system-info.txt)

Jonathan Manton commented

2020-09-13 06:55:49 +02:00

Added subscriber: @jmanton

blender-admin commented

2020-09-13 06:55:49 +02:00

#80537 was marked as duplicate of this issue

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-09-15 19:12:56 +02:00

Added subscriber: @mano-wii

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-09-15 19:12:56 +02:00

I cannot reproduce the problem from scratch.
It only appears in the attached file.

Has it been fixed in the daily build?
https://builder.blender.org/download/

I cannot reproduce the problem from scratch. It only appears in the attached file. Has it been fixed in the daily build? https://builder.blender.org/download/

Jonathan Manton commented

2020-09-16 02:07:56 +02:00

I installed the latest build: blender-2.91.0-6624c4c22514-linux64
The following steps will recreate the problem.

Delete cube.
Add a plane.
Go to edit mode.
Add a plane.
Grab it and move it away from the first plane (no overlap).
Go back to object mode.
Object > Set Origin > Origin to Geometry
Confirm the origin is not touching either plane.
Add a particle system and modify its End time to 1 (down from 200).
Confirm there is a particle (white halo) at the origin of the plane. In greater detail, there are lots of particles covering both planes, but there is a lone particle halfway between the two planes that should not be there.

I installed the latest build: blender-2.91.0-6624c4c22514-linux64 The following steps will recreate the problem. 1. Delete cube. 2. Add a plane. 3. Go to edit mode. 4. Add a plane. 5. Grab it and move it away from the first plane (no overlap). 6. Go back to object mode. 7. Object > Set Origin > Origin to Geometry 8. Confirm the origin is not touching either plane. 9. Add a particle system and modify its End time to 1 (down from 200). 10. Confirm there is a particle (white halo) at the origin of the plane. In greater detail, there are lots of particles covering both planes, but there is a lone particle halfway between the two planes that should not be there.

Richard Antalik commented

2020-09-16 15:31:13 +02:00

Added subscriber: @iss

Richard Antalik commented

2020-09-16 15:31:13 +02:00

I can't reproduce this from scratch.

In provided file if I go to edit mode and back, or touch any setting of particle system the particle at origin dissappears.

There was similar report recently though so there is probably something to it, but I can't find it anymore

I can't reproduce this from scratch. In provided file if I go to edit mode and back, or touch any setting of particle system the particle at origin dissappears. There was similar report recently though so there is probably something to it, but I can't find it anymore

Richard Antalik commented

2020-09-16 15:33:36 +02:00

Found it: #80537

Jonathan Manton commented

2020-09-16 16:12:27 +02:00

In case you missed it, please see my comment above where I show how to recreate the problem from scratch. The comment starts with "I installed the latest build: blender-2.91.0-6624c4c22514-linux64. The following steps will recreate the problem.".

(Note too that this first occurred in an actual project: there was a very noticeable bright object in the middle of the rendered animation when there shouldn't have been. So presumably if you extend the above step-by-step instructions to render particles as objects then render the animation, you will see an unwanted particle/object in the rendered animation.)

In case you missed it, please see my comment above where I show how to recreate the problem from scratch. The comment starts with "I installed the latest build: blender-2.91.0-6624c4c22514-linux64. The following steps will recreate the problem.". (Note too that this first occurred in an actual project: there was a very noticeable bright object in the middle of the rendered animation when there shouldn't have been. So presumably if you extend the above step-by-step instructions to render particles as objects then render the animation, you will see an unwanted particle/object in the rendered animation.)

Richard Antalik commented

2020-09-17 13:46:21 +02:00

In #80739#1017057, @jmanton wrote:
In case you missed it, please see my comment above where I show how to recreate the problem from scratch

Thanks, I din not miss that. I followed that procedure as well.

> In #80739#1017057, @jmanton wrote: > In case you missed it, please see my comment above where I show how to recreate the problem from scratch Thanks, I din not miss that. I followed that procedure as well.

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-09-18 20:57:16 +02:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs User Info'

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-09-18 20:57:17 +02:00

I also can't reproduce form scratch.
Unfortunately unless there are clear instructions on how to reproduce it from scratch we cannot debug this any further.
GIF:

I also can't reproduce form scratch. Unfortunately unless there are clear instructions on how to reproduce it from scratch we cannot debug this any further. GIF: ![particle_no_bug.gif](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8896607/particle_no_bug.gif)

Jonathan Manton commented

2020-09-19 03:56:47 +02:00

I watched the GIF and the steps are correct. My first suggestion is to try increasing the number of particles generated and also changing the seed. I don't know what influences the random generation of particles, so to be on the conservative side, the following steps now include precise distances and seed values. Although I haven't tested the following steps on different setups, in the past I have found the problem to be easy to reproduce on two different blender versions and two different computers, one Windows and one Linux.

I am using the standard Blender 2.90 for this. system-info.txt
[ I used the daily build of Blender last time. ]

Select "General" on splash screen.
Delete cube.
Press shift-A M P to add a plane.
Press shift-D X 4 to duplicate then place 4 units away on the X axis.
Select both planes then type Ctrl J to join.
Object > Set Origin > Origin to Geometry
Particle Properties > "+" to create a particle system.
Change End to 1 (down from 200).
I already get a particle at the origin of the planes:
Changing seed to any value between 1 and 20 seems to alter the distribution (as it should) but keep the particle at the origin.
Set the Seed to 555.
Set the Number to 51. There is no particle at the origin:
Set the Number to 52. A particle appears at the origin:
Place the 3D cursor anywhere on the screen.
Object > Set Origin > Origin to 3D Cursor
The particle follows it, still appearing at the origin:

This is a mystery, as it seems very robust to recreate.

ps. Here is the Blend file at the end of the last step. Particle At Origin Bug.blend

I watched the GIF and the steps are correct. My first suggestion is to try increasing the number of particles generated and also changing the seed. I don't know what influences the random generation of particles, so to be on the conservative side, the following steps now include precise distances and seed values. Although I haven't tested the following steps on different setups, in the past I have found the problem to be easy to reproduce on two different blender versions and two different computers, one Windows and one Linux. I am using the standard Blender 2.90 for this. [system-info.txt](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8897509/system-info.txt) [ I used the daily build of Blender last time. ] 1) Select "General" on splash screen. 2) Delete cube. 3) Press shift-A M P to add a plane. 4) Press shift-D X 4 to duplicate then place 4 units away on the X axis. 5) Select both planes then type Ctrl J to join. 6) Object > Set Origin > Origin to Geometry 7) Particle Properties > "+" to create a particle system. 8) Change End to 1 (down from 200). 9) I already get a particle at the origin of the planes: ![Screenshot_20200919_113717.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8897532/Screenshot_20200919_113717.png) 10) Changing seed to any value between 1 and 20 seems to alter the distribution (as it should) but keep the particle at the origin. 11) Set the Seed to 555. 12) Set the Number to 51. There is no particle at the origin: ![Screenshot_20200919_114149.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8897539/Screenshot_20200919_114149.png) 13) Set the Number to 52. A particle appears at the origin: ![Screenshot_20200919_114246.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8897542/Screenshot_20200919_114246.png) ![Screenshot_20200919_115020.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8897559/Screenshot_20200919_115020.png) 14) Place the 3D cursor anywhere on the screen. 15) Object > Set Origin > Origin to 3D Cursor 16) The particle follows it, still appearing at the origin: ![Screenshot_20200919_115335.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8897568/Screenshot_20200919_115335.png) This is a mystery, as it seems very robust to recreate. ps. Here is the Blend file at the end of the last step. [Particle At Origin Bug.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8897579/Particle_At_Origin_Bug.blend)

Jonathan Manton commented

2020-09-19 04:26:02 +02:00

A faster way to recreate the problem is to use the "Particle At Origin Bug.blend" file attached to the previous comment.

Download and run, say, blender-2.91.0-6624c4c22514-linux64
Open Particle At Origin Bug.blend
In particle system settings, change Emission > Number to 51 (down from 52). Observe the particle at the origin disappears (where the 3D cursor is).
Change Emission > Number back to 52. Observe the particle at the origin appears again (where the 3D cursor is).

If this does not work, then somehow there is a dependence on the hardware/OS/compiler....

ps. The above recreated the bug with blender-2.91.0-6624c4c22514-linux64 and I have now also confirmed it recreates the bug with Windows 2.90: system-info.txt

A faster way to recreate the problem is to use the "Particle At Origin Bug.blend" file attached to the previous comment. 1) Download and run, say, blender-2.91.0-6624c4c22514-linux64 2) Open Particle At Origin Bug.blend 3) In particle system settings, change Emission > Number to 51 (down from 52). Observe the particle at the origin disappears (where the 3D cursor is). 4) Change Emission > Number back to 52. Observe the particle at the origin appears again (where the 3D cursor is). If this does not work, then somehow there is a dependence on the hardware/OS/compiler.... ps. The above recreated the bug with blender-2.91.0-6624c4c22514-linux64 and I have now also confirmed it recreates the bug with Windows 2.90: [system-info.txt](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8897752/system-info.txt)

Richard Antalik commented

2020-09-28 07:29:56 +02:00

Added subscriber: @lichtwerk

Richard Antalik commented

2020-09-28 07:29:56 +02:00

Can't recreate this issue even with steps provided.

I don't have access to nvidia card, so I can't check that. @lichtwerk can you check?

Can't recreate this issue even with steps provided. I don't have access to nvidia card, so I can't check that. @lichtwerk can you check?

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-09-28 10:44:59 +02:00

Opening Particle At Origin Bug.blend I can see the particle at the origin, however changing settings (eg. Emission > Number to 51 and back to 52) will make it disappear and never come back.
Also not able to reproduce this from scratch.

Opening `Particle At Origin Bug.blend` I can see the particle at the origin, however changing settings (eg. Emission > Number to 51 and back to 52) will make it disappear and never come back. Also not able to reproduce this from scratch.

Ankit Meel commented

2020-10-07 13:04:11 +02:00

Added subscriber: @ankitm

Ankit Meel commented

2020-10-07 13:04:11 +02:00

Cannot redo on Intel HD 6000, macOS 10.14, Blender version 6e7617211b.
No particle at the origin by following the steps.

Cannot redo on Intel HD 6000, macOS 10.14, Blender version 6e7617211b. No particle at the origin by following the steps.

Ankit Meel commented

2020-10-07 13:04:27 +02:00

Added subscriber: @dk123

Ankit Meel commented

2020-10-07 13:05:12 +02:00

Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Needs Developer To Reproduce'

Jeric Chard commented

2021-08-09 00:32:40 +02:00

Added subscriber: @jeric_synergy

Jeric Chard commented

2021-08-09 00:32:40 +02:00

FWIW, I'm experiencing the same bug, 08/008/21, on v2.93, ie "particles being emitted inappropriately from emitter's origin". In this case it is complicated with the object being a Boolean intersection object, and so only "being there" some of the time. Blend file attached.Bad_Particles.blend

FWIW, I'm experiencing the same bug, 08/008/21, on v2.93, ie "particles being emitted inappropriately from emitter's origin". In this case it is complicated with the object being a Boolean intersection object, and so only "being there" some of the time. Blend file attached.[Bad_Particles.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10274588/Bad_Particles.blend) ![particles.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10274586/particles.png)

Mike Drake commented

2022-01-06 22:37:03 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Michael-Drake

Mike Drake commented

2022-01-06 22:37:03 +01:00

In #80739#1203496, @jeric_synergy wrote:
FWIW, I'm experiencing the same bug, 08/008/21, on v2.93, ie "particles being emitted inappropriately from emitter's origin". In this case it is complicated with the object being a Boolean intersection object, and so only "being there" some of the time. Blend file attached.Bad_Particles.blend

Hey Jeric! I had a similar issue where particles were being emitted from the origin on an object that had a boolean on it. Checking the "Use Modifier Stack" option in the particle Source options fixed it for me. Can you give that a try?

> In #80739#1203496, @jeric_synergy wrote: > FWIW, I'm experiencing the same bug, 08/008/21, on v2.93, ie "particles being emitted inappropriately from emitter's origin". In this case it is complicated with the object being a Boolean intersection object, and so only "being there" some of the time. Blend file attached.[Bad_Particles.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10274588/Bad_Particles.blend) > > ![particles.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10274586/particles.png) Hey Jeric! I had a similar issue where particles were being emitted from the origin on an object that had a boolean on it. Checking the "Use Modifier Stack" option in the particle Source options fixed it for me. Can you give that a try?

Ivan Arsic commented

2022-07-13 19:59:16 +02:00

Added subscriber: @arsa3d-1

Ivan Arsic commented

2022-07-13 19:59:16 +02:00

same here, its definetely a bug.

I was using mask modifier to remove geo so i can control emission of particles. so when theres no geo at all (all masked out) it just starts emiting from origin.

quick workaround is to move origin somewhere away from camera so you cannot see those unwanted particles anymore

same here, its definetely a bug. I was using mask modifier to remove geo so i can control emission of particles. so when theres no geo at all (all masked out) it just starts emiting from origin. quick workaround is to move origin somewhere away from camera so you cannot see those unwanted particles anymore

Philipp Oeser commented

2023-02-14 13:00:14 +01:00

If we move this out of the triaging queue (by changing status label to Needs Information from Developers), this needs to be the responsibility of a module (so a Module label must be added)

If we move this out of the triaging queue (by changing status label to `Needs Information from Developers`), this needs to be the responsibility of a module (so a `Module` label must be added)

Philipp Oeser added

Status

Needs Triage

and removed

Status

Needs Info from Developers

labels 2023-02-14 13:00:25 +01:00

Pratik Borhade commented

2023-03-23 04:11:43 +01:00

Can not reproduce either from scratch.
Please check if problem is still relevant in 3.5: https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/
Also check whether issue is replicable with factory settings: File > Defaults > Load Factory Settings (in case some add-on is interfering)

Can not reproduce either from scratch. Please check if problem is still relevant in 3.5: https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/ Also check whether issue is replicable with factory settings: `File > Defaults > Load Factory Settings` (in case some add-on is interfering)

Pratik Borhade added

Status

Needs Information from User

and removed

Status

Needs Triage

labels 2023-03-23 04:11:53 +01:00

Pratik Borhade commented

2023-05-19 15:15:32 +02:00

Hi, any updates here?

Richard Antalik commented

2023-06-12 04:36:26 +02:00

No activity for more than a week. As per the tracker policy we assume the issue is gone and can be closed.

Thanks again for the report. If the problem persists please open a new report with the required information.

No activity for more than a week. As per the tracker policy we assume the issue is gone and can be closed. Thanks again for the report. If the problem persists please open a new report with the required information.

Richard Antalik closed this issue

2023-06-12 04:36:28 +02:00

Blender Bot added

Status

Archived

and removed

Status

Needs Information from User

labels 2023-06-12 04:36:30 +02:00

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