Face Extrude with Constrain to Axis incorrectly defaults to Normal Orientation #80937

New Issue

Adam Janz · 2020-09-18T17:13:15+02:00

Adam Janz commented

2020-09-18 17:13:15 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-8.1-6.3.9600-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: GeForce GTX 970/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 441.66

Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.90.0, branch: master, commit date: 2020-08-31 11:26, hash: 0330d1af29
Worked: 2.83.3, branch: master, commit date: 2020-07-22 06:01, hash: 353e5bd749

Short description of error
With the transformation orientation set to Global, extruding a face and then pressing x,y, or z to constrain to an axis will result in the orientation switching to Normal orientation of that axis, rather than the Global orientation. This requires an additional toggle of the x,y, or z key to switch to the Global axis. However, extruding an edge or vertex respects the Global orientation immediately. This bug was introduced in Blender 2.9, as Blender 2.83.3 still works correctly when extruding a face, with no extra toggle required.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Open a new file and enter face select mode.
With transformation orientation set to Global, select one of the default cube's faces aligned with the Y axis and hit E to extrude and Y to constrain to the Global Y axis.
Note that the extrude incorrectly snaps to the Normal Y axis, requiring a second toggle of Y to constrain to the Global axis. Perform the same procedure on a vertex and edge, and note that the extrude respects the Global Y axis, no second toggle of Y is required. Compare to Blender 2.83.3, and all extrudes (face, edge, or vertex) work correctly.

Thank you for investigating this issue.

Best regards,
Adam Janz

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-8.1-6.3.9600-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: GeForce GTX 970/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 441.66 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 2.90.0, branch: master, commit date: 2020-08-31 11:26, hash: `0330d1af29` Worked: 2.83.3, branch: master, commit date: 2020-07-22 06:01, hash: `353e5bd749` **Short description of error** With the transformation orientation set to Global, extruding a face and then pressing x,y, or z to constrain to an axis will result in the orientation switching to Normal orientation of that axis, rather than the Global orientation. This requires an additional toggle of the x,y, or z key to switch to the Global axis. However, extruding an edge or vertex respects the Global orientation immediately. This bug was introduced in Blender 2.9, as Blender 2.83.3 still works correctly when extruding a face, with no extra toggle required. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Open a new file and enter face select mode. With transformation orientation set to Global, select one of the default cube's faces aligned with the Y axis and hit E to extrude and Y to constrain to the Global Y axis. Note that the extrude incorrectly snaps to the Normal Y axis, requiring a second toggle of Y to constrain to the Global axis. Perform the same procedure on a vertex and edge, and note that the extrude respects the Global Y axis, no second toggle of Y is required. Compare to Blender 2.83.3, and all extrudes (face, edge, or vertex) work correctly. Thank you for investigating this issue. Best regards, Adam Janz

Adam Janz commented

2020-09-18 17:13:15 +02:00

Added subscriber: @AdamJanz

blender-admin commented

2020-09-18 17:13:15 +02:00

#81825 was marked as duplicate of this issue

Martijn Versteegh commented

2020-09-18 20:24:48 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Baardaap

William Alexander commented

2020-09-19 13:33:18 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Will5

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-09-22 23:27:25 +02:00

Added subscriber: @mano-wii

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-09-22 23:27:25 +02:00

The orientation system was practically redone in the transform code.

In Blender 2.83.3 it was, to say the least, unpredictable.

As you mentioned, when the scene orientation was set to Global, when clicking on another constrain axis in the extrude, the orientation changed from Normal to Global. When clicking again, it changed to Local (But why Local? How can I go back to Normal?)
If the orientation of the scene was set to Local, when clicking on another constrain axis in the extrude, the orientation did not change, it remained Normal. When clicking again it changed to Global (But why Global? How can I use Local orientation as set in the scene?)

The new system tries to resolve these loose ends.

The extrude operator is a macro. It first inserts faces and then moves those faces in the Z direction with the Normal orientation.
By convention during a movement with constrain, if you change from Z to Y or X, the orientation does not change. It only changes when the keys are repeated (XX, YY, ZZ).

For new users this is more predictable.

We can make exceptions here and there. (Especially because Global is more useful than Normal), but is it worth making the behavior more unpredictable?

In summary the idea proposed in this report is:

The Z-constrained Move operation obtained from the extrude operator should not behave like a conventional Z-constrained move.
If the orientation of the scene is Global, when choosing another constraint axis (X or Y), the orientation must be changed from Normal to Global.
Still with the scene orientation set to Global, if the same constraint key is pressed, the orientation must change to Local (not Normal).
If the orientation of the scene is not Global, when choosing another constrain axis (X or Y), the orientation must not change, it must remain as Normal.
If the same constrain key is pressed, the orientation used must be Global (not that of the scene).

The orientation system was practically redone in the transform code. In Blender 2.83.3 it was, to say the least, unpredictable. As you mentioned, when the scene orientation was set to Global, when clicking on another constrain axis in the extrude, the orientation changed from Normal to Global. When clicking again, it changed to Local (But why Local? How can I go back to Normal?) If the orientation of the scene was set to Local, when clicking on another constrain axis in the extrude, the orientation did not change, it remained Normal. When clicking again it changed to Global (But why Global? How can I use Local orientation as set in the scene?) The new system tries to resolve these loose ends. The extrude operator is a macro. It first inserts faces and then moves those faces in the Z direction with the Normal orientation. By convention during a movement with constrain, if you change from Z to Y or X, the orientation does not change. It only changes when the keys are repeated (XX, YY, ZZ). For new users this is more predictable. We can make exceptions here and there. (Especially because Global is more useful than Normal), but is it worth making the behavior more unpredictable? In summary the idea proposed in this report is: ``` The Z-constrained Move operation obtained from the extrude operator should not behave like a conventional Z-constrained move. If the orientation of the scene is Global, when choosing another constraint axis (X or Y), the orientation must be changed from Normal to Global. Still with the scene orientation set to Global, if the same constraint key is pressed, the orientation must change to Local (not Normal). If the orientation of the scene is not Global, when choosing another constrain axis (X or Y), the orientation must not change, it must remain as Normal. If the same constrain key is pressed, the orientation used must be Global (not that of the scene). ```

Adam Janz commented

2020-09-22 23:39:10 +02:00

@mano-wii Thank you Germano for that explanation. I can see there was a bit of inconsistent behavior even in 2.83, although under normal circumstances, I never ran into it. However, for consistency, when performing a face extrude, whether in X, Y, or Z, the behavior should default to the constrained normal Z move, but upon pressing X, Y, or Z, it should immediately switch constraint to whatever Transformation Orientation has been set in the Header (Either Global, Local, Normal, etc.). There should be NO attempting to "guess" what the most helpful orientation should be, it should fully respect whatever has been manually set in the Transformation Orientation dropdown.

Thanks again.

Adam Janz

@mano-wii Thank you Germano for that explanation. I can see there was a bit of inconsistent behavior even in 2.83, although under normal circumstances, I never ran into it. However, for consistency, when performing a face extrude, whether in X, Y, or Z, the behavior should default to the constrained normal Z move, but upon pressing X, Y, or Z, it should immediately switch constraint to whatever Transformation Orientation has been set in the Header (Either Global, Local, Normal, etc.). There should be NO attempting to "guess" what the most helpful orientation should be, **it should fully respect whatever has been manually set in the Transformation Orientation dropdown.** Thanks again. - Adam Janz

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-09-24 23:41:24 +02:00

I'm not sure I got it right.
The orientation shown in the header when extruding is "normal":

If you press Z again, it goes to the orientation "set in the Transformation Orientation dropdown".

By convention if you press a different value for the active constrain axis, the orientation does not change (remains normal).

So the current behavior is not inconsistent. (It just might not be the most useful).

I've been thinking about a solution for this and I had an idea of something that can help.
My idea is, whenever you change the constrain axis, the orientation goes to the set for the scene (not keeping the current orientation).
This is likely to be more useful than current behavior.

I'm not sure I got it right. The orientation shown in the header when extruding is `"normal"`: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8917084/image.png) If you press Z again, it goes to the orientation "set in the Transformation Orientation dropdown". By convention if you press a different value for the active constrain axis, the orientation does not change (remains normal). So the current behavior is not inconsistent. (It just might not be the most useful). ---- I've been thinking about a solution for this and I had an idea of something that can help. My idea is, whenever you change the constrain axis, the orientation goes to the set for the scene (not keeping the current orientation). This is likely to be more useful than current behavior.

blender-admin commented

2020-09-25 00:16:41 +02:00

This issue was referenced by 388b916246

This issue was referenced by 388b9162469650c7b0523c2fb9c88bbe2dee1567

Adam Janz commented

2020-09-25 14:49:46 +02:00

@mano-wii Thank you, Germano. I think your solution would be best. When deliberately constraining to an axis while extruding vertices or edges, people already expect the current "Transformation Orientation" to be used. Likewise, when deliberately constraining to an axis while extruding a face, the current "Transformation Orientation" should also be used.

I think it is okay that a face extrude uses the "Normal" orientation by default after pressing "E" to extrude, as this can be helpful. However, as soon as a user commands the extrude to constrain to X, Y, or Z, then the orientation preference set in the "Transformation Orientation" dropdown should be used (whether, Global, Local, Normal, etc.).

Thanks so much for all your great work.

Adam Janz

@mano-wii Thank you, Germano. I think your solution would be best. When deliberately constraining to an axis while extruding vertices or edges, people already expect the current "Transformation Orientation" to be used. Likewise, when deliberately constraining to an axis while extruding a face, the current "Transformation Orientation" should also be used. I think it is okay that a face extrude uses the `"Normal"` orientation by default after pressing `"E"` to extrude, as this can be helpful. **However, as soon as a user commands the extrude to constrain to X, Y, or Z, then the orientation preference set in the "Transformation Orientation" dropdown should be used (whether, `Global`, `Local`, `Normal`, etc.).** Thanks so much for all your great work. - Adam Janz

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-09-25 15:24:44 +02:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Resolved'

Germano Cavalcante closed this issue

2020-09-25 15:24:44 +02:00

Germano Cavalcante self-assigned this 2020-09-25 15:24:44 +02:00

Adam Janz commented

2020-09-25 15:30:58 +02:00

Awesome, thank you, Germano! This will make everything so much better and more intuitive now. Have a great day!

Adam Janz

Awesome, thank you, Germano! This will make everything so much better and more intuitive now. Have a great day! - Adam Janz

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-10-20 17:39:44 +02:00

Added subscriber: @johnny_312

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Face Extrude with Constrain to Axis incorrectly defaults to Normal Orientation #80937