Circle Select Tool improvements #83847

New Issue

Julien Kaspar · 2020-12-16T14:10:12+01:00

Julien Kaspar commented

2020-12-16 14:10:12 +01:00

Issue

The current problem with the Circle Select Tool is that it is very inconvenient to change the brush size. In the modal operator equivalent (Shortcut C) it's just about pressing + and - or using the scrollwheel but this is not an option for the Tool. Generally there are no shortcuts for Tools before they are initiated. If the settings need to be changed then this needs to happen in the Tool Settings in the header or sidebar.
But changing the radius via that slider in the settings is awkward and appears visually glitchy since it's intersecting with the UI itself.

Proposals

So how can this be fixed. Ideally the solution should be as straight forward as possible without reshuffling the keymap. But it is very important that this is a general solution that can also be used for other brush-like Tools in the future (like proposed retopology tools that also rely on a brush radius)

1. More integrated modal shortcuts

Once a Tool is initiated (usually by click & dragging) it uses the modal operator. This means that when using the Circle Select Tool and click & dragging, the radius can be changed with the mouse wheel & the + and - keys.
The current issue with this is that the Gizmo drawing is conflicting with the Tool Radius and that any changes to the radius are not updated in the tool settings.
Keeping these 2 more in sync would be one solution or at least a great added feature.

It should be updated to the way the annotate eraser tool works but with more accessible shortcuts for radius changes if the mouse wheel is not an option (pen users)

2. Include Brush Tools in more modes

Another solution is to redesign the Circle Select Tool (and any tools, present or future, that work similarly) as a brush like in sculpt mode or the painting modes.
This means that when the Tool is active it does have a set of shortcuts that can change the tool settings before the tool is initiated.

Conflicts

Almost all are already taken like the typical F for brush size changes. It's not clear what shortcut can be used.
Also any shortcut that would be available must then be exclusively used for those brush tools to avoid any conflicts.

Solutions

Find or make an available shortcut for brush tools radius. But this shortcut then needs to be left exclusive of those tools.
Override needed shortcuts when brush tool is used (In this case F for the radius). This does introduce difficulties and extra tool switching in edit mode though.
Reuse the shortcut C that is used for the Circle Select Tool to change the radius once the tool is active. This will be awkward and incompatible with future tools that will work similar though.

Open Topics

Can it be achieved to use both solutions to improve brush like tools?
Are there possibly other ways of solving the conflicts in proposal 2?
For proposal 1, what shortcuts could be better for adjusting the brush size? + & - are on the numpad and the brackets are too far to the right and on for example German keyboard layouts not very accessible.

## Issue The current problem with the Circle Select Tool is that it is very inconvenient to change the brush size. In the modal operator equivalent (Shortcut C) it's just about pressing + and - or using the scrollwheel but this is not an option for the Tool. Generally there are no shortcuts for Tools before they are initiated. If the settings need to be changed then this needs to happen in the Tool Settings in the header or sidebar. But changing the radius via that slider in the settings is awkward and appears visually glitchy since it's intersecting with the UI itself. ![Screenshot 2020-12-16 133043.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9512934/Screenshot_2020-12-16_133043.jpg) ## Proposals So how can this be fixed. Ideally the solution should be as straight forward as possible without reshuffling the keymap. But it is very important that this is a general solution that can also be used for other brush-like Tools in the future (like proposed retopology tools that also rely on a brush radius) **1. More integrated modal shortcuts** Once a Tool is initiated (usually by click & dragging) it uses the modal operator. This means that when using the Circle Select Tool and click & dragging, the radius can be changed with the mouse wheel & the + and - keys. The current issue with this is that the Gizmo drawing is conflicting with the Tool Radius and that any changes to the radius are not updated in the tool settings. Keeping these 2 more in sync would be one solution or at least a great added feature. ![Screenshot 2020-12-16 133624.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9512955/Screenshot_2020-12-16_133624.jpg) It should be updated to the way the annotate eraser tool works but with more accessible shortcuts for radius changes if the mouse wheel is not an option (pen users) **2. Include Brush Tools in more modes** Another solution is to redesign the Circle Select Tool (and any tools, present or future, that work similarly) as a brush like in sculpt mode or the painting modes. This means that when the Tool is active it does have a set of shortcuts that can change the tool settings before the tool is initiated. **Conflicts** Almost all are already taken like the typical F for brush size changes. It's not clear what shortcut can be used. Also any shortcut that would be available must then be exclusively used for those brush tools to avoid any conflicts. **Solutions** 1. Find or make an available shortcut for brush tools radius. But this shortcut then needs to be left exclusive of those tools. 2. Override needed shortcuts when brush tool is used (In this case F for the radius). This does introduce difficulties and extra tool switching in edit mode though. 3. Reuse the shortcut C that is used for the Circle Select Tool to change the radius once the tool is active. This will be awkward and incompatible with future tools that will work similar though. ## Open Topics - Can it be achieved to use both solutions to improve brush like tools? - Are there possibly other ways of solving the conflicts in proposal 2? - For proposal 1, what shortcuts could be better for adjusting the brush size? + & - are on the numpad and the brackets are too far to the right and on for example German keyboard layouts not very accessible.

Campbell Barton was assigned by Julien Kaspar

2020-12-16 14:10:12 +01:00

Julien Kaspar commented

2020-12-16 14:10:12 +01:00

Added subscribers: @JulienKaspar, @JulianEisel

blender-admin commented

2020-12-16 14:10:12 +01:00

#83909 was marked as duplicate of this issue

Robert Guetzkow commented

2020-12-18 10:38:41 +01:00

Added subscribers: @Vyach, @rjg

Julien Kaspar commented

2020-12-18 12:02:31 +01:00

In the case of #83909, I think this is a valid issue. Ideally you want to be able to change the brush size before executing the tool and not while executing it. A workaround is to hold Shift while clicking and resizing but that might accidentally select more elements.

I do believe that both the proposals in this design task are flawed and there is no perfect solution with the way the tool system works. But any of these solutions would be better than the current implementation.

In the case of #83909, I think this is a valid issue. Ideally you want to be able to change the brush size before executing the tool and not while executing it. A workaround is to hold Shift while clicking and resizing but that might accidentally select more elements. I do believe that both the proposals in this design task are flawed and there is no perfect solution with the way the tool system works. But any of these solutions would be better than the current implementation.

Julien Kaspar commented

2021-01-08 12:51:10 +01:00

Another way of solving this issue globally in Blender is to allow sticky keys to be used with the F, Shift + F & Ctrl + F shortcuts. So when pressing these shortcuts they would execute the typical operators on release (Like fill in edit mode). But when holding the keys and moving the cursor it would instead execute the radial control operators.
I imagine this behavior to be ideal if:

The radial control operations would be contextualy based on what Tool is currently active. If no Tool is active that would take advantage of these radial shortcuts then nothing would happen.
Time based drag thresholds would be implemented instead of just using the current pixel based drag thresholds. #42339

Another way of solving this issue globally in Blender is to allow sticky keys to be used with the F, Shift + F & Ctrl + F shortcuts. So when pressing these shortcuts they would execute the typical operators on release (Like fill in edit mode). But when holding the keys and moving the cursor it would instead execute the radial control operators. I imagine this behavior to be ideal if: 1. The radial control operations would be contextualy based on what Tool is currently active. If no Tool is active that would take advantage of these radial shortcuts then nothing would happen. 2. Time based drag thresholds would be implemented instead of just using the current pixel based drag thresholds. #42339

Vyacheslav Kobozev commented

2021-01-08 13:53:30 +01:00

In my opinion, for circle tool should be one-handed and double handed variants. Because ppl use tablets or touchpads too.

Double handed is simplier. F (dor consistency) and brackets - [ ] (2d editors mostly use em)

For one hand I found only one unoccupied action: MMB-press+wheel scroll as 1 button action. But it is not good, because it mixes with orbit and will not work well with pens.

As far as I use RMB for pan (instead context menu for 1-handed navigation) I can use RMB+scroll.
But there is no ability to set such hotkey now.

So there can be more general change:
Context menu global setting (to W or mouse4 once for all)
One-handed navigation (MMB orbit, wheel zoom, RMB pan)
And RMB + scroll for tune as this one (brush size).

Pen tablets have scrollwheels or strips. So they are twohanded anyway.

I am not sure if Blender can handle LMB+RMB+Drag for brush size without intersection to other actions.

In my opinion, for circle tool should be one-handed and double handed variants. Because ppl use tablets or touchpads too. Double handed is simplier. F (dor consistency) and brackets - [ ] (2d editors mostly use em) For one hand I found only one unoccupied action: MMB-press+wheel scroll as 1 button action. But it is not good, because it mixes with orbit and will not work well with pens. As far as I use RMB for pan (instead context menu for 1-handed navigation) I can use RMB+scroll. But there is no ability to set such hotkey now. So there can be more general change: Context menu global setting (to W or mouse4 once for all) One-handed navigation (MMB orbit, wheel zoom, RMB pan) And RMB + scroll for tune as this one (brush size). Pen tablets have scrollwheels or strips. So they are twohanded anyway. I am not sure if Blender can handle LMB+RMB+Drag for brush size without intersection to other actions.

Vyacheslav Kobozev commented

2021-01-08 14:03:43 +01:00

The idea of moving context menu from RMB to anything else — is ability to make full symmetry between RClickSelect and LClickSelect

👍 1

Vyacheslav Kobozev commented

2021-01-08 14:08:07 +01:00

Shortest way for user — is to fix current behaviour: LMB+Scroll will change radius permanenlty (without reset as it is now) and will not ruin selection.
Is is possible? No deselect on nothing at least.

Shortest way for user — is to fix current behaviour: LMB+Scroll will change radius permanenlty (without reset as it is now) and will not ruin selection. Is is possible? No deselect on nothing at least.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2021-01-08 16:21:12 +01:00

Added subscriber: @1D_Inc

Paul Kotelevets commented

2021-01-08 16:21:12 +01:00

Solutions

Indeed, a very tough choise...

> Solutions Indeed, a very tough choise...

Philipp Oeser removed the

Download

What's New

Blender Studio

Manual

Developers Blog

Documentation

Benchmark

Blender Conference

Development Fund

One-time Donations

Circle Select Tool improvements #83847

Issue

Proposals

Open Topics