No option to restore previous trackpad behavior on Windows since multitouch support #97925
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Reference: blender/blender#97925
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System Information
Operating system: Windows 10
Graphics card: quadro m1000m
Blender Version
Broken: blender-3.3.0-alpha+master.98a04ed45242-windows.amd64-release
Worked: yesterday build: blender-3.3.0-alpha+master.108963d508d4-windows.amd64-release
Short description of error
The trackpad navigation in blender changed behavior in laptops.
Before, if you used two fingers and slide up/down in the trackpad it would zoom in/out in the 3d viewport and on the 2d views, but now it is orbiting the view, like if you were using the middle mouse.
The previous behavior was more handy.
Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
If you have a laptop with a trackpad try to zoom using two fingers by sliding up/down. It will orbit instead.
Added subscriber: @torrent-1
#101099 was marked as duplicate of this issue
Added subscriber: @PratikPB2123
Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Archived'
Hi, thanks for the report. This is not a bug.
These touchpad gestures are added in
e58b18888cYou can zoom in or out with pinching.
Closing this report as tracker is only for bugs and errors in Blender
but this is not right. zoom by pinching is tiresome that's why i didn't even mentioned it in the report
at least there should be a preference to change that (there is?), and if not, then it should work like in the other 3d software (two fingers and slide to pan, not orbit)
i'm wondering if this change was carefully tested before implementing
Hi, you need to press extra {key shift} key to pan around with touchpad gestures.
I don't think they are exposed in Preferences > keymap.
Multiple reviewers had reviewed the patch D7660. So enough testing has already happened before the final commit
Added subscriber: @pembem22
Hi, you can hold down {key Ctrl} key while sliding up/down with two fingers to zoom in or out. This gesture is now much smoother than it used to be and allows more precise control.
@pembem22 Hi, I'm pretty sure this new system is great, but that's not the issue. The problem is the lack of options.
Pinching to zoom is tiresome, and pressing Ctrl is another additional effort that was not needed before, so the old behavior of zooming was a lot more comfortable.
All I'm asking is, if possible, please give us an option in the preferences to use two fingers + slide up/down to zoom like before, without the need of pressing a modifier key.
Thank you.
Added subscriber: @aleksijuvani
I'm not at all happy with how this issue is being handled. You need to consider that this new behaviour is going to go against the muscle memory of everyone who's been using this software on a laptop. If you're going to switch up how something as fundamental as viewport navigation works, you're going to have to make the new behaviour opt-in.
Added subscriber: @ThinkingPolygons
Wait, what? it's not a bug?
Someone needs to do something. we need an option to zoom like before
Pinch to zoom is a nightmare
Remember that blender is not a mobile app
Changed status from 'Archived' to: 'Needs Developer To Reproduce'
Added subscriber: @PrototypeNM1
Reopening this report
@PrototypeNM1 and @pembem22 can you comment? Did I misunderstand that change?
If I understand correctly, this is now working similar to Mac trackpad (as mentioned in commit message and linked reports #70754, #69264)
@PratikPB2123 that's right. The gestures now behave the same way they do on macOS on supported Windows precision touchpads.
Thanks @pembem22. So current behavior of trackpad gestures is expected.
@pembem22 , can you also mention about this change in 3.3 release notes?
@pembem22 Can we have a checkbox in the preferences to swap "hotkeys" between orbit and zoom? When checked, ctrl + two fingers activates the orbit and the regular two fingers activates the zoom. That would solve this regression.
Keep in mind, we are not talking about zooming in a document or something, this is blender. You literally zoom in/out hundred of times in the 3dview/2dviews/nodes etc, and doing that by pinching is really really painful. The old way of zooming was really painless.
Added subscriber: @brecht
Note that this behavior can be changed in the keymap, but it requires changes in a few different places. Filter by Key-Binding "trackpad" to find them.
The reasoning behind this is to match the middle mouse button defaults. That is default to orbit in 3D (and pan in 2D), shift to pan and ctrl to zoom. Of course zoom is a common operation, but so is orbit. I think it's hard to say which is done more often. Since there is already a dedicated pinch gesture for zoom, it makes some sense to have something else than zoom as the default. Multiple gestures doing the same thing would be a bit odd.
There could be a more convenient way to change this in the keymap, like the existing "Middle Mouse Action" option.
@brecht You're a saviour, thanks for the tip on finding the keymap entry. At least not all is lost. 🙂
And yes, it definitely needs an easy way to change those keymap options.
Added subscriber: @BClark
I am glad to see that we can set this back but it is a big muscle memory change / hit face into wall, not being able to two finger scroll and zoom the view, that action is so hard coded for me in not just blender but anywhere that virtual scroll wheel works that this is frustrating change without an easy, one button click change.
" I think it's hard to say which is done more often."
I can pretty much tell you I never pinch zoom but I "virtual scroll" all day long in every app every where on my windows machine.
Two finger scroll still works for vertical scroll bars but seems broken for horizontal ones now as a side note...well maybe not broken but the mapping of the zoom axis is now changing the direction of the touch pad drag direction.. so just another tripping hazard.
@BClark, I was not arguing that pinch zoom is used often. I was disagreeing with the argument that you "zoom in/out hundred of times" as if orbit and pan is not something you do hundreds of times as well.
This is a frustrating change to be a new default because it isn't just adding support for the options to do it, it changes the entire feel and usability of using the software and navigation.
This might have had many reviewers on it but I have no idea how many were testing it with a touchpad laptop but this is a really user unfriendly arbitrary change, this isn't just left click or right click this is, a complete rug pull from a user opening the software.
If the keymap "can" be put back to allow the user to fix this, then an option keymap could have been created again to allow user choice to opt in instead of having the software just open up and feel broke at first use...as seems to be the feedback others here besides me are giving.
Not sure what "mapping of the zoom axis" means in this context.
As far as I know the two finger scroll direction matches the scrollbar direction. Not sure what else it would be expected to do, especially in cases where there are both horizontal and vertical scrollbars.
the zoom mouse drag axis now seems to impact the touch pad direction.
in 3.2.2 I can ctrl + MMB drag horizontal and zoom, but if I track pad scroll up and down the view zooms, the verticle bars move up and down and the ZOOM in the 2d view like timeline, NLA, graph editor, action editor etc.. ZOOM with UP and Down "scrolling" not horizontal.
as of 3.3 now I have it set to horizontal for the zoom axis like I had it before and now I have to "scroll" left/right horizontal for in view zoom on the touch pad and I have to scroll horizontal in the 2d views on the touch pad instead of having "scroll" like if it was a scroll wheel on a mouse, always map to the action to the result, not a literately horizontal scroll that it is now seems to act like.
Removed subscriber: @aleksijuvani
Ok, I was confused by the mention of scrollbars which don't seem directly related to this. From what I understand in blender.chat you have a setup where you use both a mouse and trackpad at the same time, and you want to have "zoom axis" to be a separate setting for mouse and trackpad so that you can use horizontal for the mouse and vertical for the trackpad.
I simply want the windows track pad virtual scroll (for me two fingers up/down) that works the same as a scroll wheel on a mouse and in previous versions of blender and all applications on my installed windows machine, to continue to work the same in 3.3.
Right now it doesn't and worse some how the direction setting for horizontal and vertical now changes the virtual scroll/track pad action instead of just changing the drag direction for the mouse and trackpad.
I will try to make a video to show the difference and the problems.
Added subscriber: @JulianEisel
@pembem22 @PrototypeNM1 @JulianEisel, what do you think about adding a preference to disable the gestures and use the trackpad purely as a scroll wheel?
That seems to be the easiest solution to satisfy users who preferred the old behavior.
This video shows just how many changes/places/issues this has caused in the interaction for me from 3.2.2 to 3.3 https://vimeo.com/riggingdojo/review/748900459/d46a6411dd
" disable the gestures and use the trackpad purely as a scroll wheel?"
Don't disable it, Please just have the same exact thing as 3.2 or the option to set it back without having to edit all the hotkeys and have it still not fully work.
Please see the video to see both the broken behavior where track pad scroll no longer works at all and the new ways that make every different area of the Blender UI now have a different direction to scroll or a hot key to hit instead of what it was.
It is a short video https://vimeo.com/riggingdojo/review/748900459/d46a6411dd but shows all the areas that are very hard to use or broken because of this change.
Thanks
Thanks
What I'm describing would be an option to restore the old behavior, on the implementation level the trackpad input was handled like a scroll wheel.
If you think there are bugs, please enumerate them in text, we can't track bugs through time stamps in videos. The only thing that I saw that might be a bug and not personal preference is regarding scrolling the tabs in the sidebar.
Regarding inconsistent zoom directions, the design is to use the "zoom axis" preference in editors where zoom is the same along both axes, like the 3D viewport or properties editor. In editors where the zoom is restricted to one axis or independent for both axes (e.g. the graph editor), it follows the gesture direction. If we made for example the timeline zoom vertically, it would be either inconsistent with the graph editor, or the graph editor would not be able to take advantage of the gesture direction.
*100% option to restore all old behavior including zoom axis, thank you for making that clear, as it wasn't reading clear in the previous comment.
I see why that makes sense for gestures but that isn't really what we are talking about, what is inconsistent is that now it is tied to "Scroll" direction and takes over the virtual scroll wheel behavior to act as a drag direction, scroll should map the same, as I showed in the video, that you should please watch if you haven't.
The Zoom Axis is a mouse direction movement and should not be coupled with "scroll direction", and if you watch the video you will see how many problems this causes.
As for a bug, yes the scroll on tabs would be a bug and I can log it later on but I am under work deadlines.
@JulianEisel Did you watch the video and or do you understand my comments around the scroll action vs. a drag direction in the comment above? I am asking to make sure I am clear and the issue is understood.
I did watch the video. I think if your mental model is that the trackpad is a scroll wheel it's just never going to agree with the design here. So not sure it's worth getting into if we add an option to restore the old behavior.
It isn't my mental model, scroll is scroll and in this case, the Track pad "scroll" should still be scroll the same as scroll wheel on a mouse.
This is how the UI and track pad work and how it works across all applications in windows for decades and how it worked in 3.2.2.
The new update is great for people that have other trackpad needs/options but for me the solution is to have the previous system as an option and allow for the new one to live/improve/etc..
So yes, it is a non-issue if we can get the previous interaction model back. Thank you.
Just for future reference on Windows for the touch pad.
Mouse scroll wheel emulation is
Two fingers swipe and then the added ability to set direction of the result of the scroll, with the touch direction or inverted.
So no matter what other options a patch supports or changes and no matter what input is used, wacom, track pad, mouse, "scroll" is the same behavior and action, it wasn't just some strange mental model I had that was unique to me.
Looking forward to 3.3.1 where I hope this will be fixed.
It's just called scroll, not scroll wheel emulation? I don't see Windows defining them as the same thing. And there are certainly Windows application that treat it as more than a scroll wheel that goes in one direction.
The reason I am saying emulation to try and be clear that I am talking about track pad scroll vs. physical mouse scroll wheel, but the action/resulting interaction is the same thing.
I disagree that the resulting action is the same thing, also in many applications besides Blender.
Based on what? scroll is scrolling when using a mouse scroll wheel or I use the two finger scroll setting. You are disagreeing when even Blender worked exactly that way up until this new change was forced on the software.
If you have some evidence I am missing or examples of of it then please provide it but it works the same exact way in every application I use, Windows 3d viewer, Blender, Maya, Max, MotionBuilder, Firefox, Chrome, and has for as long as that setting has been in Windows.
I think Photoshop is one example. Many applications don't support multitouch trackpads yet, for example Maya supports it on macOS but only supports multitouch tablets on Windows. But when it does there is a difference in behavior with the scroll wheel.
@brecht I have no objections to an option to disable trackpad handling given it's disabled by default, presumably by not creating the
GHOST_DirectManipulationHelperobject. My largest gripe is that I'm not a fan of how platform specific settings get propagated to Ghost, but I don't think that's a significant impedance here.This issue was referenced by
753dea79a3This issue was referenced by
84ddb8b3ccTrackpad navigation changed behaviorto No option to restore previous trackpad behavior on Windows since multitouch supportChanged status from 'Needs Developer To Reproduce' to: 'Resolved'
I'm considering this task resolved with the added preference to restore the old behavior.
I'm very confused— there is still no such setting in Blender 4.0 on Linux?
This bug report is about multi touch gestures on Windows, and at least at the time of writing there was no support for that on Linux. If there's an issue with them on Linux, you can create a new bug report about that.
Keith-Zander-Wang-Zheng referenced this issue2024-02-16 13:36:32 +01:00