Outliner always deletes "globally" (also linked objects from an inactive scene), no option for this as in the 3D view #106025

New Issue

Grigoriy Titaev · 2023-03-23T09:55:56+01:00

Grigoriy Titaev commented

2023-03-23 09:55:56 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows 10

Blender Version
Broken: 3.4.1, 3.5.0 (2023-03-23)

Short description of error
Deletes linked objects from an inactive scene.

If you try delete linked object from 3D viewport, it will only be removed from the current scene, as expected.
If you try delete linked object from Outliner (View Layer), objects will be removed from all scene. Although they are only expected to be removed from the current scene.

When you delete an object from Outliner, object should be deleted only from the current scene.
Or a menu should show with a choice: "Delete from current scene", "Delete from ALL scenes".
Otherwise, it may unexpected change inactive scenes, and data loss after saving blend file.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Open start scene
Create new scene "Scene.001"
Click on Cube, Ctrl+L, Link objects to scene "Scene.001"
Switch to "Scene"
Move cursor to Outliner (View Layer), delete "Cube"
Switch to "Scene.001", "Cube" are deleted too.

**System Information** Operating system: Windows 10 **Blender Version** Broken: 3.4.1, 3.5.0 (2023-03-23) **Short description of error** Deletes linked objects from an inactive scene. If you try delete linked object from 3D viewport, it will only be removed from the current scene, as expected. If you try delete linked object from Outliner (View Layer), objects will be removed from all scene. Although they are only expected to be removed from the current scene. When you delete an object from Outliner, object should be deleted only from the current scene. Or a menu should show with a choice: "Delete from current scene", "Delete from ALL scenes". Otherwise, it may unexpected change inactive scenes, and data loss after saving blend file. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** 1. Open start scene 2. Create new scene "Scene.001" 3. Click on Cube, Ctrl+L, Link objects to scene "Scene.001" 4. Switch to "Scene" 5. Move cursor to Outliner (View Layer), delete "Cube" 6. Switch to "Scene.001", "Cube" are deleted too.

Grigoriy Titaev added the

labels 2023-03-23 09:55:56 +01:00

Philipp Oeser commented

2023-03-23 11:41:19 +01:00

If you try delete linked object from 3D viewport, it will only be removed from the current scene, as expected.

Only partially true. You can delete an object from all scenes from the 3D viewport as well (using Object > Delete Global)

In the Outliner, this is "global" by default, true (and no option to change this really). BUT, couldnt you just use Outliner context menu > Unlink instead?
This will "remove" the cube from the current collection (and if it is not linked to any other collections in the current scene this basically means it is deleted from the current scene as well), AND it will still be in the other scene.

Does this solve your problem?
(I assume the "Delete Global" / "Delete Unglobal" behavior could be implemented for the outliner as well even though this sounds more like a feature request than a bug)

dev note: the difference is in BKE_scene_collections_object_remove (this is done when [regular "unglobal"] deleting from the 3D viewport, removing the object from all scene collections) vs. BKE_collection_object_remove (this is done when unlinking from the Outliner).

> If you try delete linked object from 3D viewport, it will only be removed from the current scene, as expected. Only partially true. You can delete an object from all scenes from the 3D viewport as well (using `Object` > `Delete Global`) In the Outliner, this is "global" by default, true (and no option to change this really). BUT, couldnt you just use `Outliner context menu` > `Unlink` instead? This will "remove" the cube from the current collection (and if it is not linked to any other collections in the current scene this basically means it is deleted from the current scene as well), AND it will still be in the other scene. Does this solve your problem? (I assume the "Delete Global" / "Delete Unglobal" behavior could be implemented for the outliner as well even though this sounds more like a feature request than a bug) dev note: the difference is in `BKE_scene_collections_object_remove` (this is done when [regular "unglobal"] deleting from the 3D viewport, removing the object from **all** scene collections) vs. `BKE_collection_object_remove` (this is done when unlinking from the Outliner).

Philipp Oeser added

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labels 2023-03-23 11:42:00 +01:00

Grigoriy Titaev commented

2023-03-23 14:39:23 +01:00

"Unlink" does not solve the problem.

For example, in such a situation, you lose data:
You have a file where there are several scenes in which there is some kind of related object. You need to remove an object from one scene. You open the file, select the desired scene, delete the object with the "Delete" key, the object is deleted, you save the file, close Blender.

If you have the mouse cursor in the 3D view window, there are no problems.
But if you accidentally have the cursor in outliner, the object will be removed from all the scenes, you may not notice it.
After saving the file, the object is removed from the file and you will lose data.
You will not even know that other scenes are broken and you have lost data.
In this situation I had to restore scenes from the backup.

Users need some kind of protection against this.

This problem can be solved in the this ways.
When you press the "X" or "Delete" keys in outliner, then:

Delete linked objects only from the current scene.
Check, if exists linked object in other scenes, then:
2.1 Show menu with choice: "Delete from current scene", "Delete from ALL scenes"
2.2 Show warning message like "In other scenes, there is a linked objects. Delete objects from All scenes?" (like press "X" key in 3D viewport)

"Unlink" does not solve the problem. For example, in such a situation, you lose data: You have a file where there are several scenes in which there is some kind of related object. You need to remove an object from one scene. You open the file, select the desired scene, delete the object with the "Delete" key, the object is deleted, you save the file, close Blender. If you have the mouse cursor in the 3D view window, there are no problems. But if you accidentally have the cursor in outliner, the object will be removed from all the scenes, you may not notice it. After saving the file, the object is removed from the file and you will lose data. You will not even know that other scenes are broken and you have lost data. In this situation I had to restore scenes from the backup. Users need some kind of protection against this. This problem can be solved in the this ways. When you press the "X" or "Delete" keys in outliner, then: 1. Delete linked objects only from the current scene. 2. Check, if exists linked object in other scenes, then: 2.1 Show menu with choice: "Delete from current scene", "Delete from ALL scenes" 2.2 Show warning message like "In other scenes, there is a linked objects. Delete objects from All scenes?" (like press "X" key in 3D viewport)

Philipp Oeser commented

2023-04-05 09:55:59 +02:00

@mont29 : is this something that is "inconsistent enough" to be considered a bug?
Do you want to keep this as a TODO?

@mont29 : is this something that is "inconsistent enough" to be considered a bug? Do you want to keep this as a TODO?

Philipp Oeser changed title from ~~Deletes linked objects from an inactive scene.~~ to Outliner always deletes "globally" (also linked objects from an inactive scene), no option for this as in the 3D view

2023-04-05 09:57:13 +02:00

Philipp Oeser added

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labels 2023-04-05 09:57:36 +02:00

Bastien Montagne commented

2023-04-05 12:23:31 +02:00

TBH, I think the behavior in the Outliner is more consistent: Delete means delete, not 'unlink from current scene'. So would rather rename the 'Delete' option in the view3D to 'Unlink from scene' or so.

But this is somewhat part of the broader on-going discussion about how to handle unused data, more 'aggressive' deletion, and general consistency, see e.g. #61209.

Definitively not a bug.

TBH, I think the behavior in the Outliner is more consistent: Delete means delete, not 'unlink from current scene'. So would rather rename the 'Delete' option in the view3D to 'Unlink from scene' or so. But this is somewhat part of the broader on-going discussion about how to handle unused data, more 'aggressive' deletion, and general consistency, see e.g. #61209. Definitively not a bug.

Philipp Oeser commented

2023-04-05 12:44:03 +02:00

OK, thx for the feedback.

So (even if not perfect), current behavior is not considered a bug, will have to close the report then.
Maybe we could also add "'unlink from current scene" to the Outliner as well at some point.

OK, thx for the feedback. So (even if not perfect), current behavior is not considered a bug, will have to close the report then. Maybe we could also add "'unlink from current scene" to the Outliner as well at some point.

Philipp Oeser closed this issue

2023-04-05 12:44:05 +02:00

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labels 2023-04-05 12:44:06 +02:00

Grigoriy Titaev commented

2023-04-05 12:52:00 +02:00

So would rather rename the 'Delete' option in the view3D to 'Unlink from scene' or so.

And I also propose to move hotkeys "X" and "Delete" in outliner from "Delete" operation to "Unlink" operation.
Then it will work the same way as in "3D view".

> So would rather rename the 'Delete' option in the view3D to 'Unlink from scene' or so. And I also propose to move hotkeys "X" and "Delete" in outliner from "Delete" operation to "Unlink" operation. Then it will work the same way as in "3D view".

Philipp Oeser referenced this issue

2023-11-13 09:49:29 +01:00

Boolean operation is persistent unless bool deleted in outliner or name in Geometry Node #114771

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Outliner always deletes "globally" (also linked objects from an inactive scene), no option for this as in the 3D view #106025