4.0.0 Alpha (Daily Builds after 7/15/23) crash while opening on Intel macOS Monterey 12.6.8 #110843

New Issue

Robert Hall · 2023-08-06T05:49:51+02:00

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 05:49:51 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: macOS Monterey 12.6.8
Processor: 3 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7
Memory: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Graphics card: Intel Iris 1536 MB
Startup Disk: 1 TB SSD

Blender Version
Broken: 4.0.0 Alpha July 16
Worked: 4.0.0 Alpha July 15

Short description of error
I download the latest versions of Blender about every 1 to 2 weeks, and 3.6.1 Stable opens fine, but some reason 4.0.0 Alpha crashes immediately trying to open. I had 4.0.0 from about mid July working fine and deleted it in anticipation of the latest working as usual but no dice this time... so I went back and downloaded every previous 4.0.0 Alpha release day by day and the same result it crashes opening, and now any July Alpha won't even open so no crash report available on those.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
download 4.0.0 Alpha (Intel) MacOS from https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/

EDIT!!! Well Dayum... I seem to have solved the problem?! Or? Ok so I did update Python from 3.11.3 to 3.11.4, and then one last .dmg file I downloaded a branch build from:

https://builder.blender.org/download/experimental/blender-4.0.0-alpha+universal-scene-description.a108b7cb279c-darwin.x86_64-release.dmg

which just opened no problem? So 7-26-23 the upload date, which as I recall was the last daily build I had working...

I just tried again before submitting this,
Ok tests confirm Alpha 4.0.0 latest Aug 6 will Not load, even after it's verified by MacOS, but an earlier patch build Alpha 4.0.0 downloaded just minutes prior will open and opens my latest file no problem. So there's definitely an issue with the recent daily build Alpha downloads for Intel Mac!

**System Information** Operating system: macOS Monterey 12.6.8 Processor: 3 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7 Memory: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 Graphics card: Intel Iris 1536 MB Startup Disk: 1 TB SSD **Blender Version** Broken: 4.0.0 Alpha July 16 Worked: 4.0.0 Alpha July 15 **Short description of error** I download the latest versions of Blender about every 1 to 2 weeks, and 3.6.1 Stable opens fine, but some reason 4.0.0 Alpha crashes immediately trying to open. I had 4.0.0 from about mid July working fine and deleted it in anticipation of the latest working as usual but no dice this time... so I went back and downloaded every previous 4.0.0 Alpha release day by day and the same result it crashes opening, and now any July Alpha won't even open so no crash report available on those. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** download 4.0.0 Alpha (Intel) MacOS from https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/ EDIT!!! Well Dayum... I seem to have solved the problem?! Or? Ok so I did update Python from 3.11.3 to 3.11.4, and then one last .dmg file I downloaded a branch build from: https://builder.blender.org/download/experimental/blender-4.0.0-alpha+universal-scene-description.a108b7cb279c-darwin.x86_64-release.dmg which just opened no problem? So 7-26-23 the upload date, which as I recall was the last daily build I had working... I just tried again before submitting this, Ok tests confirm Alpha 4.0.0 latest Aug 6 will Not load, even after it's verified by MacOS, but an earlier patch build Alpha 4.0.0 downloaded just minutes prior will open and opens my latest file no problem. So there's definitely an issue with the recent daily build Alpha downloads for Intel Mac!

Robert Hall added this to the 4.0 milestone 2023-08-06 05:49:51 +02:00

Robert Hall added the

labels 2023-08-06 05:49:51 +02:00

kees roobol commented

2023-08-06 07:33:09 +02:00

I cannot reproduce this problem on an 8-core iMac pro with MacOS Monterey. When opening for the first time I do experience a spinning lollypop for about 10 seconds, thereafter is opens normally.

Pratik Borhade commented

2023-08-06 08:16:23 +02:00

Could it be because OpenGL support for Mac is removed and Metal backend is not compatible on your system? #110602

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 11:46:10 +02:00

I'm running Monterey on an Intel Mac mini (late summer 2014 with the fastest Intel processor from that line 3.0 Ghz i7). I've had no problems with previous versions, and currently have Blender Alpha 4.0.0 Branch Build from 7-26-23 running perfectly.

I cannot however launch any Alpha 4.0.0 from the Daily Builds after 7-26-23

I wonder if the separations between Intel and Apple Silicon downloads have somehow changed, I had a similar issue once with Unity builds that compiled both Intel and M1 chip versions together as "Universal" but in practice would not run on an Intel processor. The builds have to be compiled separately to work with Intel. They do appear to be separate builds, I'm just noting the issue had occurred in the past with games made with Unity.

Why do Alpha 4.0.0 (Intel Mac) versions with upload dates from about 2 weeks ago open and subsequent versions from the end of July til now do not open? What changed?

My older mini is still quite snappy, especially with an internal SSD running the OS and all apps, I don't have much beach balling really when opening Blender, and can actually have several versions of Blender open and running at the same time without any lag or slowdown, at least for modeling in a layout window, render previews (as material selection) can be a tad slow to load, but I can still load them AND work with Nurbs Paths and Curve Modifiers while Shaders (made from Geometry Nodes) are running. No it's not an M1 that can handle all of that effortlessly but it can handle it (if not excessive... I think more than one shader set up combined might really slow me down, but I'm only using one right now).

The issue is opening the new download for Intel...

I'm running Monterey on an Intel Mac mini (late summer 2014 with the fastest Intel processor from that line 3.0 Ghz i7). I've had no problems with previous versions, and currently have Blender Alpha 4.0.0 Branch Build from 7-26-23 running perfectly. I cannot however launch any Alpha 4.0.0 from the Daily Builds after 7-26-23 I wonder if the separations between Intel and Apple Silicon downloads have somehow changed, I had a similar issue once with Unity builds that compiled both Intel and M1 chip versions together as "Universal" but in practice would not run on an Intel processor. The builds have to be compiled separately to work with Intel. They do appear to be separate builds, I'm just noting the issue had occurred in the past with games made with Unity. Why do Alpha 4.0.0 (Intel Mac) versions with upload dates from about 2 weeks ago open and subsequent versions from the end of July til now do not open? What changed? My older mini is still quite snappy, especially with an internal SSD running the OS and all apps, I don't have much beach balling really when opening Blender, and can actually have several versions of Blender open and running at the same time without any lag or slowdown, at least for modeling in a layout window, render previews (as material selection) can be a tad slow to load, but I can still load them AND work with Nurbs Paths and Curve Modifiers while Shaders (made from Geometry Nodes) are running. No it's not an M1 that can handle all of that effortlessly but it can handle it (if not excessive... I think more than one shader set up combined might really slow me down, but I'm only using one right now). The issue is opening the new download for Intel...

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 12:17:49 +02:00

More specifically, this is the download link to the version that either crashes on startup, or just won't open.

https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/blender-4.0.0-alpha+main.d870f9e841a5-darwin.x86_64-release.dmg

More specifically, this is the download link to the version that either crashes on startup, or just won't open. https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/blender-4.0.0-alpha+main.d870f9e841a5-darwin.x86_64-release.dmg

kees roobol commented

2023-08-06 14:00:39 +02:00

I downloaded 4.0 from your link above and it runs normally on an 2017 Intel iMac pro but not on a 2012 Intel Macbook pro (didn’t check for older 4.0 versions, though).

👍 1

Jesse Yurkovich commented

2023-08-06 22:01:44 +02:00

The "universal-scene-description" branch used above does not contain the relevant code that is in "main". It is an older branch even if the build was dated 2023-07-26. Can you try using a main branch from right around 2023-07-20 like this one: https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/archive/blender-4.0.0-alpha+main.08f4f1f41e52-darwin.x86_64-release.dmg and see if that works?

👍 1

Jesse Yurkovich added

Status

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and removed

Status

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labels 2023-08-06 22:01:54 +02:00

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 22:28:43 +02:00

I downloaded the 4.0 Alpha version you link above dated 7-20-23 and can confirm it does not open on my 2014 Intel Mac mini

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 22:34:40 +02:00

Something funny going on with the daily alpha builds for Intel, I do suspect it's the manner in which they were compiled, but I have no way to test my theory. Whoever is uploading the latest builds has changed something, and whatever that is won't allow those builds to open on my Intel Mac.

It's only the daily build Alpha 4.0 I'm having issues with,
as the 3.6.1 daily build opens and runs fine, as does the universal scene desc 4.0 version.

Something funny going on with the daily alpha builds for Intel, I do suspect it's the manner in which they were compiled, but I have no way to test my theory. Whoever is uploading the latest builds has changed something, and whatever that is won't allow those builds to open on my Intel Mac. It's only the daily build Alpha 4.0 I'm having issues with, as the 3.6.1 daily build opens and runs fine, as does the universal scene desc 4.0 version.

Jesse Yurkovich commented

2023-08-06 22:39:27 +02:00

Then this is most certainly the changes in OpenGL support which started on July 15th and culminated in the complete removal of OpenGL for Mac on July 19th. This will only affect the 4.x versions onward. Again, the USD branch is old and only contains the main code up until June 23rd right now; it will also be affected once the maintainer of that branch merges in the newer code. 3.6.x LTS will continue to work until that release goes end of life.

👎 1

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 22:47:40 +02:00

Ok, a little more investigating might be narrowing it down to WHEN something changed, I went back a little further and just downloaded the main daily build 4.0 Alpha dated 7-7-23

https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/archive/blender-4.0.0-alpha+main.827baed610b8-darwin.x86_64-release.dmg

and can confirm it DOES open and run fine on my Intel Mac.

Now to try later versions until it breaks...

Ok, a little more investigating might be narrowing it down to WHEN something changed, I went back a little further and just downloaded the main daily build 4.0 Alpha dated 7-7-23 https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/archive/blender-4.0.0-alpha+main.827baed610b8-darwin.x86_64-release.dmg and can confirm it DOES open and run fine on my Intel Mac. Now to try later versions until it breaks...

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 22:56:13 +02:00

4.0 Alpha daily build for Intel Mac dated 7-18-23 does NOT open

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 23:04:04 +02:00

4.0 Alpha daily build for Intel Mac dated 7-11-23 opens and runs fine without any issue

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 23:11:50 +02:00

4.0 Alpha daily build for Intel Mac dated 7-14-23 opens and runs fine without any issue

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 23:17:48 +02:00

7-16 does not open

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 23:20:35 +02:00

Then this is most certainly the changes in OpenGL support which started on July 15th and culminated in the complete removal of OpenGL for Mac on July 19th. This will only affect the 4.x versions onward. Again, the USD branch is old and only contains the main code up until June 23rd right now; it will also be affected once the maintainer of that branch merges in the newer code. 3.6.x LTS will continue to work until that release goes end of life.

I think it's pretty crappy that an arbitrary decision to drop support for millions of older Mac users was made mid way through the Alpha build versions, way to build our hopes and then crush us with grim reality, really really sad th4 folks at Blender thought this was ok.

> Then this is most certainly the changes in OpenGL support which started on July 15th and culminated in the complete removal of OpenGL for Mac on July 19th. This will only affect the 4.x versions onward. Again, the USD branch is old and only contains the main code up until June 23rd right now; it will also be affected once the maintainer of that branch merges in the newer code. 3.6.x LTS will continue to work until that release goes end of life. I think it's pretty crappy that an arbitrary decision to drop support for millions of older Mac users was made mid way through the Alpha build versions, way to build our hopes and then crush us with grim reality, really really sad th4 folks at Blender thought this was ok.

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-06 23:26:02 +02:00

There are six unlucky numbers in Japanese. Traditionally, 4 is unlucky because it is sometimes pronounced shi, which is the word for death. Sometimes levels or rooms with 4 don't exist in hospitals or hotels. Particularly in the maternity section of a hospital, the room number 43 is avoided because it can literally mean "stillbirth".

RIP Blender...

At the very least there should be a version 3.9 for everyone with older Intel Macs that just can't afford an upgrade right now.

There are six unlucky numbers in Japanese. Traditionally, 4 is unlucky because it is sometimes pronounced shi, which is the word for death. Sometimes levels or rooms with 4 don't exist in hospitals or hotels. Particularly in the maternity section of a hospital, the room number 43 is avoided because it can literally mean "stillbirth". RIP Blender... At the very least there should be a version 3.9 for everyone with older Intel Macs that just can't afford an upgrade right now.

Jesse Yurkovich commented

2023-08-06 23:28:33 +02:00

Closing. Continue to use 3.6 LTS which will be supported until June 2025.

Jesse Yurkovich closed this issue

2023-08-06 23:28:36 +02:00

Blender Bot added

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labels 2023-08-06 23:28:37 +02:00

Robert Hall commented

2023-08-07 00:03:05 +02:00

Anyone who wishes to test Blender 4.0.0 on an older Intel Mac would be advised to save this .dmg file as it appears to be the latest compatible version, and after the archived build repository merges none of the updated archived builds will run on Intel Macs.

https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/archive/blender-4.0.0-alpha+main.d8e4fe320784-darwin.x86_64-release.dmg

I will estimate I have about 18 months before an upgrade to an M1 processor is required in order to continue testing Blender daily builds, all while AI (art theft) generative is promising the world, and reactively delivering diminished interest in 3D modeling, fewer art posts on social media, and an increase in paywalls for art sharing... no doubt the direction taken with the decision to drop support for OpenGL will also advocate for the inclusion of AI Add-ons in Blender 4.0, and thus ending once and for all the wonderful work the Blender Foundation has brought forth in empowering artists around the globe with the tools they needed to design and develop in 3D.
If this seems a bleak forecast then please understand it's an absolute observation from a standpoint of worldly wisdom attained by a very much older mind, one that has seen just how small changes applied at certain times can serve to amplify and thus decidedly direct a new path... I fear it will NOT become any kind of new Renaissance for digital artists, quite the opposite I feel will come to pass.
I can only pray my fears are wrong, but from the look of things I think my predictions are reasonably accurate... I would post about this to Twitter, but now it's just "X" and I don't think anyone is really listening now or even cares anymore.

Anyone who wishes to test Blender 4.0.0 on an older Intel Mac would be advised to save this .dmg file as it appears to be the latest compatible version, and after the archived build repository merges none of the updated archived builds will run on Intel Macs. https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/archive/blender-4.0.0-alpha+main.d8e4fe320784-darwin.x86_64-release.dmg I will estimate I have about 18 months before an upgrade to an M1 processor is required in order to continue testing Blender daily builds, all while AI (art theft) generative is promising the world, and reactively delivering diminished interest in 3D modeling, fewer art posts on social media, and an increase in paywalls for art sharing... no doubt the direction taken with the decision to drop support for OpenGL will also advocate for the inclusion of AI Add-ons in Blender 4.0, and thus ending once and for all the wonderful work the Blender Foundation has brought forth in empowering artists around the globe with the tools they needed to design and develop in 3D. If this seems a bleak forecast then please understand it's an absolute observation from a standpoint of worldly wisdom attained by a very much older mind, one that has seen just how small changes applied at certain times can serve to amplify and thus decidedly direct a new path... I fear it will NOT become any kind of new Renaissance for digital artists, quite the opposite I feel will come to pass. I can only pray my fears are wrong, but from the look of things I think my predictions are reasonably accurate... I would post about this to Twitter, but now it's just "X" and I don't think anyone is really listening now or even cares anymore.

Robert Hall changed title from ~~4.0.0 Alpha (Daily Builds after 7/26/23) crash while opening on Intel macOS Monterey 12.6.8~~ to 4.0.0 Alpha (Daily Builds after 7/15/23) crash while opening on Intel macOS Monterey 12.6.8

2023-08-07 00:21:21 +02:00

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4.0.0 Alpha (Daily Builds after 7/15/23) crash while opening on Intel macOS Monterey 12.6.8 #110843