DDS format BC5 auto-generates Blue channel #111325

New Issue

Lukas-deaton · 2023-08-20T18:00:50+02:00

Lukas-deaton commented

2023-08-20 18:00:50 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows 10
Graphics card: Nvidia GTX 2080 SUPER

Blender Version
Broken: 3.6.2
Worked: N/A

Short description of error

When importing a DDS texture of format BC5 (only contains Red and Green channels), the Blue channel is auto-generated. From my non-exhaustive testing, no other DDS format behaves like this.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Create a new Blender project
Import a BC5 DDS texture (see attached)
View the texture in the image editor
Observe the Blue channel isn't empty

I assume this is because normal maps exclude the blue channel to save memory, instead computing it at run-time. Since the BC5 format only contains Red and Green, Blender seems to think this is exclusively used for normal maps and generates Blue. Since BC5 can be used for textures besides normal maps, and Blender doesn't do this for normal maps in other formats (not BC5 DDS), this is an odd and confusing "feature".

I've uploaded an example BC5 texture created with texconv, a tool from Microsoft (creators of the DDS format). I've also uploaded a BC4 texture, which only contains Red; it does not auto-generate any data. BC1 contains RGB channels, and again does not auto-generate anything.

**System Information** Operating system: Windows 10 Graphics card: Nvidia GTX 2080 SUPER **Blender Version** Broken: 3.6.2 Worked: N/A **Short description of error** When importing a DDS texture of format BC5 (only contains Red and Green channels), the Blue channel is auto-generated. From my non-exhaustive testing, no other DDS format behaves like this. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** 1. Create a new Blender project 2. Import a BC5 DDS texture (see attached) 3. View the texture in the image editor 4. Observe the Blue channel isn't empty I assume this is because normal maps [exclude the blue channel to save memory](https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/637818#Comment_637818), instead computing it at run-time. Since the BC5 format only contains Red and Green, Blender seems to think this is exclusively used for normal maps and generates Blue. Since BC5 can be used for textures besides normal maps, and Blender doesn't do this for normal maps in other formats (not BC5 DDS), this is an odd and confusing "feature". I've uploaded an example BC5 texture created with [texconv](https://github.com/Microsoft/DirectXTex/wiki/Texconv), a tool from Microsoft (creators of the DDS format). I've also uploaded a BC4 texture, which only contains Red; it _does not_ auto-generate any data. BC1 contains RGB channels, and again _does not_ auto-generate anything.

BC5U.dds

1.3 MiB

BC4U.dds

683 KiB

BC1U.dds

683 KiB

Lukas-deaton added the

labels 2023-08-20 18:00:51 +02:00

Jesse Yurkovich commented

2023-08-20 21:56:30 +02:00

This behavior is currently by-design. Additionally, 2-channel formats are not well supported in general (known issue) unless you manually separate/combine the RG channels yourself. They can give different results between Eevee/Cycles/OSL.

The problem with BC5 in particular is that historically they've been frequently used as normal maps which assumed the creation of the blue channel. However, there's nothing "official" in the file header declaring them as normal maps so software cannot reliably auto-detect this case. Nvidia tools set a special flag, but other tools do not, and this lead to other bugs we were forced to fix like #109442.

This sometime comes up over on the DirectXTex github as well:
https://github.com/microsoft/DirectXTex/issues/125
https://github.com/microsoft/DirectXTex/issues/214

Since the relative complexity of having the user recreate the blue channel vs. having them separate out the 2 channels themselves, we chose to maintain the creation of the blue channel by default.

Providing an option for the user to select during DDS load is enticing but is also problematic. The imaging library we use to load DDS files only offers very course grained support for enabling/disabling this behavior, not in a per-Image way that's reliable. Even if that improved, rendering systems like OSL and Hydra have no way to consume such metadata as they control image loading themselves. It would also be lost on import/export since formats like FBX or USD don't have any provisions to tag images with this metadata either. So even if we provide an option at load time, surprising things might happen if the data is exported out of Blender.

The recommendation currently is to extract the RG channels directly in the Material or Geometry Nodes graphs when using such images to eliminate ambiguity.

This behavior is currently by-design. Additionally, 2-channel formats are not well supported in general (known issue) unless you manually separate/combine the RG channels yourself. They can give different results between Eevee/Cycles/OSL. The problem with BC5 in particular is that historically they've been frequently used as normal maps which assumed the creation of the blue channel. However, there's nothing "official" in the file header declaring them as normal maps so software cannot reliably auto-detect this case. Nvidia tools set a special flag, but other tools do not, and this lead to other bugs we were forced to fix like #109442. This sometime comes up over on the DirectXTex github as well: https://github.com/microsoft/DirectXTex/issues/125 https://github.com/microsoft/DirectXTex/issues/214 Since the relative complexity of having the user recreate the blue channel vs. having them separate out the 2 channels themselves, we chose to maintain the creation of the blue channel by default. Providing an option for the user to select during DDS load is enticing but is also problematic. The imaging library we use to load DDS files only offers very course grained support for enabling/disabling this behavior, not in a per-Image way that's reliable. Even if that improved, rendering systems like OSL and Hydra have no way to consume such metadata as they control image loading themselves. It would also be lost on import/export since formats like FBX or USD don't have any provisions to tag images with this metadata either. So even if we provide an option at load time, surprising things might happen if the data is exported out of Blender. The recommendation currently is to extract the RG channels directly in the Material or Geometry Nodes graphs when using such images to eliminate ambiguity.

Jesse Yurkovich commented

2023-09-06 20:12:45 +02:00

Will close as this is expected behavior right now.

Jesse Yurkovich closed this issue

2023-09-06 20:12:47 +02:00

Blender Bot added

and removed

labels 2023-09-06 20:12:49 +02:00