Data lost to a severe crash was auto-recovered and forcefully overrid data that was saved to disk even tho no recovery options were used #111762

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ValyArhal · 2023-08-31T22:13:12+02:00

ValyArhal commented

2023-08-31 22:13:12 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows 11
Graphics card: Gigabyte Windforce RTX 2060 OC Super 6GB

Blender Version
Broken: (steam 3.4.x-3.6.2)
Worked: ()

Short description of error
note: this is not related to the recovery or auto recovery systems but about pre-crash data being used from ram instead of reading saved data from disk

note 2: i verified it's old data as it happened with a mask this time and the vertex ids it was assigned after the crash corresponded to the ones that the mask was assigned to after the bug, but was improperly recovered as ids changed due to changes to the mesh, and unmasking those vertices caused them to be moved a random locations as the shapekey they where assigned to did not exist anymore

After a severe crash that was not induced by hardware crashes(ie: out of memory/vram, ran out of pagefile memory etc)
but from an error internal to blender, even tho data and changes where saved to disk, blender auto recovered data that was not saved and lost to a crash, and it possibly corresponded to a block of ram that was not freed reported by blender in the cmd window;
after the unprompted recovery the data even tho it was corrupted it forcefully overrid the data that was saved to disk upon load

this error seems to recover all kinds of data, it restored a sculpt mask that had been corrupted and was after deleted and saved the file to disk as not having said mask, to even internal textures/texture paint, and changes to properties

i came to this correlation as this type of forceful recovery seems to specifically happen before the ram drops in utilization after a save and a sizable chunk of ram sometimes in the gigabytes is reported as not freed upon closure from the crash

this also seems to cause blender to not generate crash.log files

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
important: blender has to terminate from an internal system and not the OS, as even tho blocks of ram still weren't freed windows took care of it in the cases of hardware related crashes causing this error to not happen

obtain a crash from any of blender's systems not the OS(import, sculpt mask, operators/geometry nodes with faulty input seem to be the most reliable)

if the file is still saving and completes but the ram has not yet been cleared and a crash happens there is a very high chance the old data will be used instead of the data saved to disk

regarding a blend file:
there is no way for me to provide a blend file as it's dependent on data that is left in the ram by the crash and happened the same way regardless of file, and would require me to find a reliable way to crash blender in this specific conditions, which is out of my knowledge.

**System Information** Operating system: Windows 11 Graphics card: Gigabyte Windforce RTX 2060 OC Super 6GB **Blender Version** Broken: (steam 3.4.x-3.6.2) Worked: () **Short description of error** note: this is not related to the recovery or auto recovery systems but about pre-crash data being used from ram instead of reading saved data from disk note 2: i verified it's old data as it happened with a mask this time and the vertex ids it was assigned after the crash corresponded to the ones that the mask was assigned to after the bug, but was improperly recovered as ids changed due to changes to the mesh, and unmasking those vertices caused them to be moved a random locations as the shapekey they where assigned to did not exist anymore After a severe crash that was not induced by hardware crashes(ie: out of memory/vram, ran out of pagefile memory etc) but from an error internal to blender, even tho data and changes where saved to disk, blender auto recovered data that was not saved and lost to a crash, and it possibly corresponded to a block of ram that was not freed reported by blender in the cmd window; after the unprompted recovery the data even tho it was corrupted it forcefully overrid the data that was saved to disk upon load this error seems to recover all kinds of data, it restored a sculpt mask that had been corrupted and was after deleted and saved the file to disk as not having said mask, to even internal textures/texture paint, and changes to properties i came to this correlation as this type of forceful recovery seems to specifically happen before the ram drops in utilization after a save and a sizable chunk of ram sometimes in the gigabytes is reported as not freed upon closure from the crash this also seems to cause blender to not generate crash.log files **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** important: blender has to terminate from an internal system and not the OS, as even tho blocks of ram still weren't freed windows took care of it in the cases of hardware related crashes causing this error to not happen obtain a crash from any of blender's systems not the OS(import, sculpt mask, operators/geometry nodes with faulty input seem to be the most reliable) if the file is still saving and completes but the ram has not yet been cleared and a crash happens there is a very high chance the old data will be used instead of the data saved to disk **regarding a blend file:** there is no way for me to provide a blend file as it's dependent on data that is left in the ram by the crash and happened the same way regardless of file, and would require me to find a reliable way to crash blender in this specific conditions, which is out of my knowledge.

ValyArhal added the

labels 2023-08-31 22:13:12 +02:00

YimingWu commented

2023-09-01 04:30:51 +02:00

I don't think I quite understand the problem...

pre-crash data being used from ram instead of reading saved data from disk

How is this technically possible? 🤔

I don't think I quite understand the problem... > pre-crash data being used from ram instead of reading saved data from disk How is this technically possible? 🤔

Richard Antalik commented

2023-09-01 05:03:09 +02:00

I did not quite understand the error description, but to reproduce the issue we need a set of discrete steps. If this relies on random crash, we can not fix the issue. We need to be able to reproduce the crash in the first place. Can you provide these steps?

Richard Antalik added

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labels 2023-09-01 05:03:29 +02:00

ValyArhal commented

2023-09-01 08:33:11 +02:00

thanks for the response, i will try to clarify the best that i can, when saving the temporary data that is visibly shaved of the total ram utilization, let's say 2.5gb before the save to 1.3gb after, when blender crashes in a specific way, it reports the exact difference to not have been freed, and the ram utilization stays the same, and the files that were not saved reappear even tho nothing was done by me to recover them with that ram utilization remaining the same even tho the file has been reopened from disk

i mean full on internal textures reappearing out of nowhere after deleting them but before saving that i deleted them, i don't know if this is technically possible but it's something that has been happening since 3.4 or even earlier but i'm not sure since which version before 3.4

i will clarify on what i mean with an internal system, the crash is not related to specifically all systems mentioned from what i could tell (i'm not the best with the technical side of blender), the bug is with a single system or function that is called upon a crash that is not handling data that normally is cleared off the ram, and seems to behave differently or call something else when the crash is not related to internal systems to blender;

i referenced any internal system like masking and geo-nodes as a method to get the crash as i do not know what the exact system that handles this data is in these cases, but i misrepresented what i meant, the bug report is about a system that i do not know the name of but is clearly responsible for data handling on ram when saving/closing/crashing(in a non severe manner), and it has not behaved normally for a few versions now

thanks for the response, i will try to clarify the best that i can, when saving the temporary data that is visibly shaved of the total ram utilization, let's say 2.5gb before the save to 1.3gb after, when blender crashes in a specific way, it reports the exact difference to not have been freed, and the ram utilization stays the same, and the files that were not saved reappear even tho nothing was done by me to recover them with that ram utilization remaining the same even tho the file has been reopened from disk i mean full on internal textures reappearing out of nowhere after deleting them but before saving that i deleted them, i don't know if this is technically possible but it's something that has been happening since 3.4 or even earlier but i'm not sure since which version before 3.4 i will clarify on what i mean with an internal system, the crash is not related to specifically all systems mentioned from what i could tell (i'm not the best with the technical side of blender), the bug is with a single system or function that is called upon a crash that is not handling data that normally is cleared off the ram, and seems to behave differently or call something else when the crash is not related to internal systems to blender; i referenced any internal system like masking and geo-nodes as a method to get the crash as i do not know what the exact system that handles this data is in these cases, but i misrepresented what i meant, the bug report is about a system that i do not know the name of but is clearly responsible for data handling on ram when saving/closing/crashing(in a non severe manner), and it has not behaved normally for a few versions now

Iliya Katushenock commented

2023-09-01 20:43:34 +02:00

Please show console messages! What memory is not freed?
Full crash details please! Stack trace, system data:
a. instructions here.
b. Blender: Help > Save System Info.
c. blender_debug_output.txt: Writing: ... .crash.txt - crash file.
Can you provide a video of the process? It would be useful not to imagine it, but to see it!
Are you exactly sure that you are SAVE something and not just lose your session without saving any changes? I would just close this as a duplicate of #111332 if you just was try to save 4.0 files in 3.6....

1. Please show console messages! What memory is not freed? 2. Full crash details please! Stack trace, system data: a. [instructions here](https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/3.6/troubleshooting/crash.html#windows). b. Blender: `Help` > `Save System Info`. c. `blender_debug_output.txt`: `Writing: ... .crash.txt` - crash file. 3. Can you provide a video of the process? It would be useful not to imagine it, but to see it! 4. Are you exactly sure that you are SAVE something and not just lose your session without saving any changes? I would just close this as a duplicate of https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/issues/111332 if you just was try to save 4.0 files in 3.6....

ValyArhal commented

2023-09-01 21:38:34 +02:00

thanks again for the response i initially did not intend to report this so i don't have any crash details as it would have been to much to store due to the frequency of it happening; as soon as i resume work tomorrow [GMT+2] i will fully document everything as best as i can;

to clarify with the duplicate issue, data being lost or not saved is not the issue here those systems work fine, it's that data that was not saved and was supposed to be gone after the crash reappears after opening blender again with blender not acknowledgeing it as recovered data;

The bug is i have no auto recovery option enabled nor did it manually, and neither blender has tried recovery from what i saw in the console when loading the file, but instead what was on ram before the crash is loading instead of; with one peculiar thing, it seams some of the incremental saves prior to the file that crashed are affected in some cases;

also a full pc restart is needed as there is still a blender process somewhere after the crash as both steam and win 11 mark it as already running

thanks for the patience again, i will try to share everything requested, as this has be corrupting or breaking entire projects for multiple minor version at this point;

edit:
regarding BlendFilename.crash.txt, i can not provide it as it's not being generated with or without custom temp path, nor in any debug modes, i can try to locate it if it was saved somewhere else but i already searched in all know paths

uploaded system info in the mean time until i can get more

thanks again for the response i initially did not intend to report this so i don't have any crash details as it would have been to much to store due to the frequency of it happening; as soon as i resume work tomorrow _[GMT+2]_ i will fully document everything as best as i can; to clarify with the duplicate issue, data being lost or not saved is not the issue here those systems work fine, **it's that data that was not saved and was supposed to be gone after the crash reappears** after opening blender again with blender not acknowledgeing it as recovered data; The bug is i have no auto recovery option enabled nor did it manually, and neither blender has tried recovery from what i saw in the console when loading the file, but instead what was on ram before the crash is loading instead of; with one peculiar thing, it seams some of the incremental saves prior to the file that crashed are affected in some cases; also a full pc restart is needed as there is still a blender process somewhere after the crash as both steam and win 11 mark it as already running thanks for the patience again, i will try to share everything requested, as this has be corrupting or breaking entire projects for multiple minor version at this point; edit: regarding BlendFilename.crash.txt, i can not provide it as it's not being generated with or without custom temp path, nor in any debug modes, i can try to locate it if it was saved somewhere else but i already searched in all know paths uploaded system info in the mean time until i can get more

system-info.txt

30 KiB

👍 1

Richard Antalik commented

2023-09-02 04:54:33 +02:00

I see quite a bit of addons there. Can you check if this happens when you load factory preferences and save them? You can backup folder %APPDATA%\Blender Foundation\Blender\4.0 so you don't lose them.

I see quite a bit of addons there. Can you check if this happens when you load factory preferences and save them? You can backup folder `%APPDATA%\Blender Foundation\Blender\4.0` so you don't lose them.

michael campbell commented

2023-09-03 23:39:18 +02:00

I had something similar to this several months ago. Blender Crashed, I reopened the file (not from the recovery options, just the last manual save), and the file had objects from a completely different .blend file in it! No linked assets were in use etc, so it was very odd.

Richard Antalik commented

2023-11-07 06:08:21 +01:00

No activity for more than a week. As per the tracker policy we assume the issue is gone and can be closed.

Thanks again for the report. If the problem persists please open a new report with the required information.

No activity for more than a week. As per the tracker policy we assume the issue is gone and can be closed. Thanks again for the report. If the problem persists please open a new report with the required information.

Richard Antalik closed this issue

2023-11-07 06:08:24 +01:00

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