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Crash: Opening a 3.3 project crashes 3.6/4.0 #114582

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opened 2023-11-07 15:41:47 +01:00 by Raimund Klink · 10 comments
Raimund Klink commented 2023-11-07 15:41:47 +01:00
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System Information
Operating system: Windows-11-10.0.22631-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.6.0 NVIDIA 546.01

Blender Version
Broken: version: 3.6.5, 4.0.0 Beta, branch: blender-v4.0-release, commit date: 2023-11-06 20:53, hash: abe925d0c671
Worked: 3.3.12

Short description of error
Open the .blend with 3.6/4.0, it will crash immediately.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Sadly I don't know what causes this, we got this .blend from a user because he couldn't upload it to our render farm.
I cleaned it up as much as I could.

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-11-10.0.22631-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.6.0 NVIDIA 546.01 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 3.6.5, 4.0.0 Beta, branch: blender-v4.0-release, commit date: 2023-11-06 20:53, hash: `abe925d0c671` Worked: 3.3.12 **Short description of error** Open the .blend with 3.6/4.0, it will crash immediately. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Sadly I don't know what causes this, we got this .blend from a user because he couldn't upload it to our render farm. I cleaned it up as much as I could.
blender.crash.txt
35 KiB
blender_debug_output.txt
1017 B
crash.blend
89 MiB
blender_system_info.txt
22 KiB
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Iliya Katushenock commented 2023-11-07 16:05:08 +01:00
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@LukasTonne /

@LukasTonne /
Lukas Tönne commented 2023-11-09 12:40:55 +01:00
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The test file has a simulation zone in it, which does not load correctly and crashes (storage of the sim zone input node is null).

Simulation zones were introduced in 3.6, so i doubt the file is originally from 3.3. I could reproduce the same issue when adding a simulation zone in 3.6, loading the file in 3.3 and saving in that version. It will then crash in 3.6 and 4.0, for the same reason.

This is a limitation of forward versioning. The new sim zone input node type is set as "Undefined" when loading in 3.3, but saving it again will keep the node type identifier. This feature works well for custom nodes which may not be defined due to a missing library or similar, so trying to restore the node on loading makes sense. Custom nodes store all custom data in ID properties, which can be loaded and re-saved without full type knowledge. But for built-in nodes this behavior causes broken data when jumping back and forth between versions.

We might do a similar thing as with unknown built-in socket types (#114401), but i have to discuss this with core devs.

The test file has a simulation zone in it, which does not load correctly and crashes (`storage` of the sim zone input node is null). Simulation zones were introduced in 3.6, so i doubt the file is originally from 3.3. I could reproduce the same issue when adding a simulation zone in 3.6, loading the file in 3.3 and saving in that version. It will then crash in 3.6 and 4.0, for the same reason. This is a limitation of forward versioning. The new sim zone input node type is set as "Undefined" when loading in 3.3, but saving it again will keep the node type identifier. This feature works well for custom nodes which may not be defined due to a missing library or similar, so trying to restore the node on loading makes sense. Custom nodes store all custom data in ID properties, which can be loaded and re-saved without full type knowledge. But for built-in nodes this behavior causes broken data when jumping back and forth between versions. We might do a similar thing as with unknown built-in socket types (#114401), but i have to discuss this with core devs.
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Lukas Tönne commented 2023-11-09 12:45:17 +01:00
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@JacquesLucke @brecht
Any opinion on this matter? Should we remove unknown built-in nodes from on loading in 3.x to prevent saving invalid data, or is switching versions like this simply unsupported?

@JacquesLucke @brecht Any opinion on this matter? Should we remove unknown built-in nodes from on loading in 3.x to prevent saving invalid data, or is switching versions like this simply unsupported?
Brecht Van Lommel commented 2023-11-09 18:36:38 +01:00
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I think we should not crash one way or the other.

Perhaps we can just remove nodes that need storage but are missing it? Where bNodeType.storagename is non-empty and bNode.storage is null.

I think we should not crash one way or the other. Perhaps we can just remove nodes that need storage but are missing it? Where `bNodeType.storagename` is non-empty and `bNode.storage` is null.
Lukas Tönne commented 2023-11-10 12:22:28 +01:00
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Perhaps we can just remove nodes that need storage but are missing it?

I would suggest to just discard any unknown built-in node types (custom nodes are left untouched).

In #114401 i initially also just discarded sockets that use default_value and tried to keep the rest working (there are a few socket types that don't use default_value). But that assumes that such built-in sockets can still be fully serialized without knowing their type. We changed it to simply discard any unknown builtin socket type, whether it uses default_value or not, since we cannot guarantee that such data can be deserialized and serialized again properly.

> Perhaps we can just remove nodes that need storage but are missing it? I would suggest to just discard any unknown built-in node types (custom nodes are left untouched). In #114401 i initially also just discarded sockets that use `default_value` and tried to keep the rest working (there are a few socket types that don't use `default_value`). But that assumes that such built-in sockets can still be fully serialized without knowing their type. We changed it to simply discard any unknown builtin socket type, whether it uses `default_value` or not, since we cannot guarantee that such data can be deserialized and serialized again properly.
Brecht Van Lommel commented 2023-11-13 10:40:26 +01:00
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I think it's good to have some node visible the node graph to indicate that there used to be something there. I don't think keeping the node type is important, but keeping the node name and position can be helpful for a user to see that something went wrong and/or manually fix things.

I think it's good to have some node visible the node graph to indicate that there used to be something there. I don't think keeping the node type is important, but keeping the node name and position can be helpful for a user to see that something went wrong and/or manually fix things.
Lukas Tönne commented 2023-11-13 11:01:13 +01:00
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That's true, but the issue i ran into with the sockets was that handling an unknown type is not something the various node systems necessarily support. We'll need to make sure that unknown node/socket types (at least the special NodeTypeUndefined) is handled properly by renderers, compositors, geonodes, etc. instead of just crashing. No point in being able to do a round trip if the file just crashes in 4.0 eventually. This should be a supported graceful failure case, but i don't think there are any actual tests since it doesn't come up during regular use.

That's true, but the issue i ran into with the sockets was that handling an unknown type is not something the various node systems necessarily support. We'll need to make sure that unknown node/socket types (at least the special `NodeTypeUndefined`) is handled properly by renderers, compositors, geonodes, etc. instead of just crashing. No point in being able to do a round trip if the file just crashes in 4.0 eventually. This _should_ be a supported graceful failure case, but i don't think there are any actual tests since it doesn't come up during regular use.
Lukas Tönne commented 2023-11-13 11:09:11 +01:00
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On second thought: It should be easier to do this with nodes than with sockets. The NodeTypeUndefined is already handled, so if i replace unknown nodes with that type it should work. Socket types don't have an equivalent "undefined" type that is universally supported.

On second thought: It should be easier to do this with nodes than with sockets. The `NodeTypeUndefined` is already handled, so if i replace unknown nodes with that type it should work. Socket types don't have an equivalent "undefined" type that is universally supported.
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Brecht Van Lommel commented 2023-11-13 18:57:58 +01:00
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I had to revert the fix for this, since it breaks versioning. It would check if the type exists before versioning runs, but versioning might change it to a new type.

I had to revert the fix for this, since it breaks versioning. It would check if the type exists before versioning runs, but versioning might change it to a new type.
Brecht Van Lommel commented 2023-11-15 15:12:31 +01:00
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I think the code from the PR can move from ntree_blend_read_data to ntree_blend_read_after_liblink. This is also where it sets node->typeinfo, so that means at this point the node->type is expected to be correct. I also checked that versioning code for changes to node->type is all happening before lib linking, and not after lib linking.

I think the code from the PR can move from `ntree_blend_read_data` to `ntree_blend_read_after_liblink`. This is also where it sets `node->typeinfo`, so that means at this point the `node->type` is expected to be correct. I also checked that versioning code for changes to `node->type` is all happening before lib linking, and not after lib linking.
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Reference: blender/blender#114582
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