GP Branch: UI design for topbar/tools integration #54896

Closed
opened 2018-04-30 13:50:54 +02:00 by Joshua Leung · 123 comments
Member

Task to figure out new design for how GP tools should integrate with topbar/toolbar design.

The main difference in 2.8, is that all the active tools (In this case brushes) will be in the toolbar, while all the tool settings will go in the top bar. You can refer to Sculpt Mode, which already works this way:

Screen Shot 2018-04-30 at 14.17.32.png

For the new 2D Draw Mode, we would like the tools to work the same way. Here's a mockup to demonstrate how it would work:

Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 00.08.30.png

Icon-only view:

Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 00.10.04.png

Initial icon design by Aslam Cader:
Blender_28_2D_tools.jpg

Task to figure out new design for how GP tools should integrate with topbar/toolbar design. The main difference in 2.8, is that all the active tools (In this case brushes) will be in the toolbar, while all the tool settings will go in the top bar. You can refer to Sculpt Mode, which already works this way: ![Screen Shot 2018-04-30 at 14.17.32.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3147396/Screen_Shot_2018-04-30_at_14.17.32.png) For the new 2D Draw Mode, we would like the tools to work the same way. Here's a mockup to demonstrate how it would work: ![Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 00.08.30.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3290521/Screen_Shot_2018-05-07_at_00.08.30.png) Icon-only view: ![Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 00.10.04.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3290529/Screen_Shot_2018-05-07_at_00.10.04.png) Initial icon design by Aslam Cader: ![Blender_28_2D_tools.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3290473/Blender_28_2D_tools.jpg)
William Reynish was assigned by Joshua Leung 2018-04-30 13:50:54 +02:00
Author
Member
Added subscribers: @JoshuaLeung, @antoniov, @mendio, @pepe-school-land

yes William, This new UI will be great for 2d artist. I already started to analise the tool order in the diferents Grease Pencil modes, here is a mockup:
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1gRSBJNMgvZjfOoa79zmlTktO6HNBsUWYh4OthWdNukY/edit?usp=sharing

yes William, This new UI will be great for 2d artist. I already started to analise the tool order in the diferents Grease Pencil modes, here is a mockup: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1gRSBJNMgvZjfOoa79zmlTktO6HNBsUWYh4OthWdNukY/edit?usp=sharing

Hi Matias. Yes, I agree that this can work really well for 2D work too. We were thinking of the 2D drawing modes also when designing this.

I think you are getting the hang of it with the 2D Draw Mode and 2D Sculpt Mode. Your mockups follow the direction we are after.

The only thing is, currently we are not planning to put Commands (as opposed to Active Tools ) in the toolbar, so many of the items in the Edit Mode toolbar would probably not exist there.

However, this is something we are still investigating. We may allow a separate toolbar category for Commands later on.

Hi Matias. Yes, I agree that this can work really well for 2D work too. We were thinking of the 2D drawing modes also when designing this. I think you are getting the hang of it with the 2D Draw Mode and 2D Sculpt Mode. Your mockups follow the direction we are after. The only thing is, currently we are not planning to put *Commands* (as opposed to *Active Tools* ) in the toolbar, so many of the items in the Edit Mode toolbar would probably not exist there. However, this is something we are still investigating. We *may* allow a separate toolbar category for Commands later on.

Great, thanks for the update William. We know the toolbar/topbar are WIP, we are just trying to follow the new UI development to help for smooth and faster Gpencil merge

Great, thanks for the update William. We know the toolbar/topbar are WIP, we are just trying to follow the new UI development to help for smooth and faster Gpencil merge

For sure, and much appreciated! I've given your icons to our icon maker, Aslam, to see if he can some up with something that fits more with all the other new ones. Probably they will not have an opaque, white background. I hope that's OK with you.

BTW, really looking forward to the merge, these are some great new tools.

For sure, and much appreciated! I've given your icons to our icon maker, Aslam, to see if he can some up with something that fits more with all the other new ones. Probably they will *not* have an opaque, white background. I hope that's OK with you. BTW, really looking forward to the merge, these are some great new tools.

2.8_UI_04.JPG

Forgot to mention that we also have an special weightpaint icon for Greasepencil. It should be diferent from the regular icon weight paint because it interact with the points of the Gpencil strokes and not meshes.

![2.8_UI_04.JPG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3149429/2.8_UI_04.JPG) Forgot to mention that we also have an special weightpaint icon for Greasepencil. It should be diferent from the regular icon weight paint because it interact with the points of the Gpencil strokes and not meshes.

Ah, nice! :) I'll send it on to Aslam :)

Ah, nice! :) I'll send it on to Aslam :)

HI William!

We love the new approach of the toolbar and topbar, will be great.

I made this 2 min video just to explain two important options in the Gpencil workflow
https://www.dropbox.com/s/spuxdkoyg6sbl5q/Default%20Material%20y%20Selector.mov?dl=0

Take a look

Daniel

HI William! We love the new approach of the toolbar and topbar, will be great. I made this 2 min video just to explain two important options in the Gpencil workflow https://www.dropbox.com/s/spuxdkoyg6sbl5q/Default%20Material%20y%20Selector.mov?dl=0 Take a look Daniel

Hi Daniel, and thanks for the video!

Yes, I totally understand those two points. This is how I think we should solve it:

1:
For the brush material selection, I think it would make the most sense that this simply becomes a brush tool setting. This way, we will simply put it in the top bar, and users can work in full screen mode with no problems. It's also more consistent with other modes this way.

2:
The next question is, should the active material be a brush property, or not, and should you be able to use it both ways?

I think the simplest solution, would be to say that this setting is always a brush setting. If you switch to a different brush, it will paint with a different material. Is it really necessary to have it be both per brush and persistent? If it were simply a brush setting, users could set up various brushes with different materials and quickly switch between them.

We could have some way to 'unlock' the material setting to become global (overriding the material set by the brush), but are you sure that's necessary? It would add some additional complexity for the user, and we must make it very clear what is going on.

Hi Daniel, and thanks for the video! Yes, I totally understand those two points. This is how I think we should solve it: 1: For the brush material selection, I think it would make the most sense that this simply becomes a brush tool setting. This way, we will simply put it in the top bar, and users can work in full screen mode with no problems. It's also more consistent with other modes this way. 2: The next question is, should the active material be a brush property, or not, and should you be able to use it both ways? I think the simplest solution, would be to say that this setting is *always* a brush setting. If you switch to a different brush, it will paint with a different material. Is it really necessary to have it be both per brush *and* persistent? If it were simply a brush setting, users could set up various brushes with different materials and quickly switch between them. We *could* have some way to 'unlock' the material setting to become global (overriding the material set by the brush), but are you sure that's necessary? It would add some additional complexity for the user, and we must make it very clear what is going on.

Right now the default material is a brush setting that alow various brushes with different materials as you said but if the default material is not set (unlock), the brush use the global selected material

Right now the default material is a brush setting that alow various brushes with different materials as you said but if the default material is not set (unlock), the brush use the global selected material

Only one comment about default Brush material. In the last modified version before merge, the brush is using a default Material not the Palette/Palette Color combination, but the idea is the same.

Only one comment about default Brush material. In the last modified version before merge, the brush is using a default Material not the Palette/Palette Color combination, but the idea is the same.

yes, it functions as an of override of the global selected material for a particular brush

yes, it functions as an of override of the global selected material for a particular brush
Author
Member

I almost somewhat prefer if we just did away with the global material default behaviour, though that would probably cause another bunch of interesting issues (e.g. working across different objects, some that do/don't have the same materials in use).

(Side note: @antoniov - Have you checked whether setting a material on a brush, and then painting with that material on an object that doesn't currently use that material work correctly? i.e. The object that you just painted on now gets a new material slot for that? Also when removing/changing material slots when strokes still use them that strokes don't end up still hanging on to those silently?)

I almost somewhat prefer if we just did away with the global material default behaviour, though that would probably cause another bunch of interesting issues (e.g. working across different objects, some that do/don't have the same materials in use). (Side note: @antoniov - Have you checked whether setting a material on a brush, and then painting with that material on an object that doesn't currently use that material work correctly? i.e. The object that you just painted on now gets a new material slot for that? Also when removing/changing material slots when strokes still use them that strokes don't end up still hanging on to those silently?)

@JoshuaLeung Not sure I tested that. I'm going to do a full test and be sure all it's working and fix any bug.

@JoshuaLeung Not sure I tested that. I'm going to do a full test and be sure all it's working and fix any bug.

Matias: Right.

Our suggestion is, that we basically move the colour picker in the header into the tool settings in the top bar, and integrate it into the brush. We can use your nice color picker UI widget to get a preview of the colour.

We feel like that should be the main, oronly way to select the active material for the brush.

We are not very keen on using the Properties to set the brush material, for a few reasons:

  • As you pointed out, the Properties might not always be visible
  • Users might select different materials in the Properties to tweak the settings of them, not because they want to draw with it
  • It becomes quite inconsistent and confusing when you can set the brush material in two such different ways.
Matias: Right. Our suggestion is, that we basically move the colour picker in the header into the tool settings in the top bar, and integrate it into the brush. We can use your nice color picker UI widget to get a preview of the colour. We feel like that should be the main, or*only* way to select the active material for the brush. We are not very keen on using the Properties to set the brush material, for a few reasons: - As you pointed out, the Properties might not always be visible - Users might select different materials in the Properties to tweak the settings of them, not because they want to draw with it - It becomes quite inconsistent and confusing when you can set the brush material in two such different ways.

@JoshuaLeung I have fixewd an issue when use a materila that is not in the current Object (add the material). About remove a material slot, I did the same we had with Palettecolors. If you remove a material, all strokes of this material are removed.

@JoshuaLeung I have fixewd an issue when use a materila that is not in the current Object (add the material). About remove a material slot, I did the same we had with Palettecolors. If you remove a material, all strokes of this material are removed.

I think we are missing a point about color list. The color list is not only to select colors and define properties. The list has some options to manage the strokes (hide, lock, etc). While the artist is drawing, all these options are used all the time.

The color picker is only to select a color when you need a "full" drawing area and you don't want to have any panel open.

Maybe we could put these options in a different place, but I don't know where.

@pepe-school-land Could you make a video to explain why the hide/lock, etc options are so important for the pipeline.

I think we are missing a point about color list. The color list is not only to select colors and define properties. The list has some options to manage the strokes (hide, lock, etc). While the artist is drawing, all these options are used all the time. The color picker is only to select a color when you need a "full" drawing area and you don't want to have any panel open. Maybe we could put these options in a different place, but I don't know where. @pepe-school-land Could you make a video to explain why the hide/lock, etc options are so important for the pipeline.

Yes, as Antonio said, The color picker is only to select a color and the color list (in material panel) is not only to select colors and define properties. the hide, lock, icons, etc are KEY in the Gpencil workflow. I could make a video to explain this point.

Yes, as Antonio said, The color picker is only to select a color and the color list (in material panel) is not only to select colors and define properties. the hide, lock, icons, etc are KEY in the Gpencil workflow. I could make a video to explain this point.

For sure, that would be helpful, thanks.

For sure, that would be helpful, thanks.

Hi William! This is the video about the importance of Lock/Hide icons
Lock_icons.mov

Daniel

Hi William! This is the video about the importance of Lock/Hide icons [Lock_icons.mov](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3238793/Lock_icons.mov) Daniel

Oh, neat. I don't see any particular reason why we would remove that. I think it fits well, and it seems very useful.

My main concern was about how you set the active material to draw with. That should be a tool setting, not a Properties setting, I think.

Oh, neat. I don't see any particular reason why we would remove that. I think it fits well, and it seems very useful. My main concern was about how you set the active material to draw with. That should be a tool setting, not a Properties setting, I think.

If we move the color selector to tool, this will work for all operators?

I'm thinking in operators like "Select by Color"

Currently, the color is not only for drawing, it's a "way" of manage strokes also.

Not sure about the answer to these questions because I don't know how the toolbar works enough.

If we move the color selector to tool, this will work for all operators? I'm thinking in operators like "Select by Color" Currently, the color is not only for drawing, it's a "way" of manage strokes also. Not sure about the answer to these questions because I don't know how the toolbar works enough.

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Select by Color could work just fine. It's not a tool, it's simply a command, like Select Similar in Edit Mode.

My main point, is that we should clearly separate the Properties materials list, and the active material being used by the brush.

Currently, it seems like you have three ways to set the active material to draw with:

  • The selected material in Properties
  • The selected material in the toolbar

The material set in the 3D View header

This is my main concern.

My proposal is that we simply make the active material a brush tool setting.

That way it's unambiguous what material you draw with, and you don't need the Properties Editor open, and you don't accidentally switch the active material while tweaking colors in Material Properties. I think that would be simple, and clearly understandable, and more consistent with Blender too.

I'm not sure I understand the question. Select by Color could work just fine. It's not a tool, it's simply a command, like Select Similar in Edit Mode. My main point, is that we should clearly separate the Properties materials list, and the active material being used by the brush. Currently, it seems like you have three ways to set the active material to draw with: - The selected material in Properties - The selected material in the toolbar # The material set in the 3D View header This is my main concern. My proposal is that we simply make the active material a brush tool setting. That way it's unambiguous what material you draw with, and you don't need the Properties Editor open, and you don't accidentally switch the active material while tweaking colors in Material Properties. I think that would be simple, and clearly understandable, and more consistent with Blender too.

After some talks with Daniel we agree with you on simplify the way we select the active material.

We could use the materials list in properties editor only to manage the materials and to do other special things like lock, show, hide, etc. but not to select the active one.

We also agree on make the active material a brush setting, a material selector on the topbar for linking brush-material could work well.
The only concerns we have is that we should have a way to filter this materials list by selected object, current scene, etc. (think on heavy scenes with hundred of colors)

After some talks with Daniel we agree with you on simplify the way we select the active material. We could use the materials list in properties editor only to manage the materials and to do other special things like lock, show, hide, etc. but not to select the active one. We also agree on make the active material a brush setting, a material selector on the topbar for linking brush-material could work well. The only concerns we have is that we should have a way to filter this materials list by selected object, current scene, etc. (think on heavy scenes with hundred of colors)

For sure, that makes sense. I wonder if it even makes sense to only allow materials that have been added to the object, so that the materials list can be used as a palette, as per your original design. That way you can assign a set of materials to each character and only pick the relevant ones in the tool settings.

For sure, that makes sense. I wonder if it even makes sense to only allow materials that have been added to the object, so that the materials list can be used as a palette, as per your original design. That way you can assign a set of materials to each character and only pick the relevant ones in the tool settings.

yes, I think it could work, everything that helps a less cluttered list of materials to choose from

yes, I think it could work, everything that helps a less cluttered list of materials to choose from

if i understood correctly, the idea is to use always the material assigned to the Brush, so from now on, the brush must have a material assigned always. If the artist wants to change the color, this changes the brush color.

If the brush was created without material, the first material of the list of materials will be assigned, the same if the assigned material is deleted.

I think this is not a big issue, but need some changes in the code that I can handle.

One point I'm not sure is that now, if you are painting with one brush & color and change the brush, the color will change too, because the relationship is between both and not like before that you selected a color and change between brushes using the same color.

Do we all agree on that?

@JoshuaLeung what do you think on technical side?

if i understood correctly, the idea is to use always the material assigned to the Brush, so from now on, the brush must have a material assigned always. If the artist wants to change the color, this changes the brush color. If the brush was created without material, the first material of the list of materials will be assigned, the same if the assigned material is deleted. I think this is not a big issue, but need some changes in the code that I can handle. One point I'm not sure is that now, if you are painting with one brush & color and change the brush, the color will change too, because the relationship is between both and not like before that you selected a color and change between brushes using the same color. Do we all agree on that? @JoshuaLeung what do you think on technical side?

Yes, I think that makes sense, yes.

We could also support a way to 'un-link' the active brush material from the brush itself, so that the active material stays the same even if the user switches to a different brush. I'm open to that concept, too, although that's not how Blender's other tools work currently.

But even so, the active material would still be a tool setting in the top bar, and be selected in the same way, so that it's nicely consistent.

Yes, I think that makes sense, yes. We *could* also support a way to 'un-link' the active brush material from the brush itself, so that the active material stays the same even if the user switches to a different brush. I'm open to that concept, too, although that's not how Blender's other tools work currently. But even so, the active material would still be a tool setting in the top bar, and be selected in the same way, so that it's nicely consistent.

Really, to use always a relationship Brush<=>Color can be something good.

An artist working with "real" colorpencils change the pencil to use a new color, so this is how real world works, and if the user has several blender brushes with different colors, he can change between colors using the keys (0...9), so we get in some way a "fast color switching" method.

Really, to use always a relationship Brush<=>Color can be something good. An artist working with "real" colorpencils change the pencil to use a new color, so this is how real world works, and if the user has several blender brushes with different colors, he can change between colors using the keys (0...9), so we get in some way a "fast color switching" method.

For sure, I agree. It was more to say that we could also support the other way, but in a more consistent way. But for now we could just support the active material being a brush setting, with the nice color preview you already worked on :)

For sure, I agree. It was more to say that we could also support the other way, but in a more consistent way. But for now we could just support the active material being a brush setting, with the nice color preview you already worked on :)

Ok, I will wait to get the "go" from other team members before start coding the change.

Ok, I will wait to get the "go" from other team members before start coding the change.

All agree with the change @antoniov , go for it

All agree with the change @antoniov , go for it

Ok for me

Ok for me

I have been looking at the program an I have one doubt.

The new idea is to assign the material used to Brush, and the user can select any color for the Brush. If you draw with this brush, always the selected material will be used.

There are several assumptions:

  1. If the current material assigned to the brush, does not exist in the current GP Object material slots, the material is added to the GP object as a new slot.
  2. The user can select ANY grease pencil material for any Brush. We cannot filter the colors by object, because the Brush can be used in any GP object.
  3. As result of this, the color picker menu, will assign the selected color to the current Brush. This color picker will filter the colors for the current GP object, because is using the material slots.

The points 2) and 3) can look like opposite, but it depends of how select the color of the brush.

I have been looking at the program an I have one doubt. The new idea is to assign the material used to Brush, and the user can select any color for the Brush. If you draw with this brush, always the selected material will be used. There are several assumptions: 1) If the current material assigned to the brush, does not exist in the current GP Object material slots, the material is added to the GP object as a new slot. 2) The user can select ANY grease pencil material for any Brush. We cannot filter the colors by object, because the Brush can be used in any GP object. 3) As result of this, the color picker menu, will assign the selected color to the current Brush. This color picker will filter the colors for the current GP object, because is using the material slots. The points 2) and 3) can look like opposite, but it depends of how select the color of the brush.

BTW, I think the Grease Pencil paper must be part of the overlay menu.

BTW, I think the Grease Pencil paper must be part of the overlay menu.

Regarding #2: That was why I was also open to having way to 'unlink' the active material from the active brush, and having it be a simple list of materials already added to the GP object. Users could still set the material in the top bar, but it would then not change with the brush.

That would only be an option though - by default I think it should work as you outlined, where the active material is simply part of the brush.

Regarding #2: That was why I was also open to having way to 'unlink' the active material from the active brush, and having it be a simple list of materials already added to the GP object. Users could still set the material in the top bar, but it would then not change with the brush. That would only be an option though - by default I think it should work as you outlined, where the active material is simply part of the brush.

1. IMO is clearer if we show in the color selector only the material assigned to the selected object.

If you want to use the same material in different objects, the user must first add that material to the object's material list in the properties panel.

2. To keep both ways, I was thinking in a pin icon next to the color picker that indicate the material is linked to the brush (pinned).

If the material is unlinked (unpinned) the color picker will show whatever is the current active material for all the unpinned brushes

# 1. IMO is clearer if we show in the color selector only the material assigned to the selected object. If you want to use the same material in different objects, the user must first add that material to the object's material list in the properties panel. # 2. To keep both ways, I was thinking in a pin icon next to the color picker that indicate the material is linked to the brush (pinned). If the material is unlinked (unpinned) the color picker will show whatever is the current active material for all the unpinned brushes

@mendio for #1, If the user select the color with the color picker or the list of materials will work in this way, but if the user "link/append" a Brush, the material will be the original one and the material will be added to GP Object when draw first stroke.

About #2, I think we can wait and see how works with the new UI, After test all, we can decide something like the Pin. We need test also how enable the materials to Brushes when you start to draw without a predefined GP Object.

@mendio for #1, If the user select the color with the color picker or the list of materials will work in this way, but if the user "link/append" a Brush, the material will be the original one and the material will be added to GP Object when draw first stroke. About #2, I think we can wait and see how works with the new UI, After test all, we can decide something like the Pin. We need test also how enable the materials to Brushes when you start to draw without a predefined GP Object.

Makes sense - sounds like a good plan.

Makes sense - sounds like a good plan.

I have been doing changes to color picker panel (still need UI redesign), but the new logic is already in place.

Before, when you selected an object and used the color picker, you could use only the colors of this object, but this is not the standard of Blender.

With the new change, if you have two objects with different materials, when you use the color picker, the list of colors includes all materials of all objects (the list shows any grease pencil material). If the user select a material that is not in the current grease pencil material slots, the material is added automatically when draws the first stroke.

image.png

As @mendio commented, it would be great to have a flag or pin to enable a "filter by object" color. If this filter is enabled, the list will show only the colors of the current objet and not the full list. This filter is not implemented yet in the color picker.

I have been doing changes to color picker panel (still need UI redesign), but the new logic is already in place. Before, when you selected an object and used the color picker, you could use only the colors of this object, but this is not the standard of Blender. With the new change, if you have two objects with different materials, when you use the color picker, the list of colors includes all materials of all objects (the list shows any grease pencil material). If the user select a material that is not in the current grease pencil material slots, the material is added automatically when draws the first stroke. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3283985/image.png) As @mendio commented, it would be great to have a flag or pin to enable a "filter by object" color. If this filter is enabled, the list will show only the colors of the current objet and not the full list. This filter is not implemented yet in the color picker.

That sounds good. Makes sense I think.

That sounds good. Makes sense I think.

@WilliamReynish In the second image you have put, there is a color selector drop down box (the example shows "Blue"). About this control, we need to show both colors stroke & fill, not only one color.

It's very important don't show the stroke color as the "border" line of the fill, box, because a lot of times the color hasn't fill and then all the icons are only a very thin line of stroke color fill of "nothing" and is more difficult find a color in the list.

@WilliamReynish In the second image you have put, there is a color selector drop down box (the example shows "Blue"). About this control, we need to show both colors stroke & fill, not only one color. It's very important don't show the stroke color as the "border" line of the fill, box, because a lot of times the color hasn't fill and then all the icons are only a very thin line of stroke color fill of "nothing" and is more difficult find a color in the list.

Antonio: So, something more like this?

Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 11.46.53.png

or

Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 11.49.15.png

Antonio: So, something more like this? ![Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 11.46.53.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3296175/Screen_Shot_2018-05-07_at_11.46.53.png) or ![Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 11.49.15.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3296189/Screen_Shot_2018-05-07_at_11.49.15.png)

Yes, something like that, but try to give more visual priority to Stroke color, the fill is used less.

In your designs the color with more "visual impact" is the fill (green over yellow). If the color were only stroke, you would have only the stroke (yellow) and nothing for fill.

Anyway, I'm not designer and your designs are in the right direction, maybe @mendio can give us any idea.

Yes, something like that, but try to give more visual priority to Stroke color, the fill is used less. In your designs the color with more "visual impact" is the fill (green over yellow). If the color were only stroke, you would have only the stroke (yellow) and nothing for fill. Anyway, I'm not designer and your designs are in the right direction, maybe @mendio can give us any idea.

We could make it look more like this, where the line is drawn on top:

Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 14.22.29.png

That way, if you don't have a fill color assigned, you only see the lines, and it still works:

Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 14.22.35.png

We could make it look more like this, where the line is drawn on top: ![Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 14.22.29.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3296989/Screen_Shot_2018-05-07_at_14.22.29.png) That way, if you don't have a fill color assigned, you only see the lines, and it still works: ![Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 14.22.35.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3296988/Screen_Shot_2018-05-07_at_14.22.35.png)

Update: Joshua pointed out that the stroke line was probably too thin, so I made it thicker and put an outline around it:

Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 14.42.05.png

Update: Joshua pointed out that the stroke line was probably too thin, so I made it thicker and put an outline around it: ![Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 14.42.05.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3297089/Screen_Shot_2018-05-07_at_14.42.05.png)

Yes, I like the proposal, but problems arise when we expand the list.

Things to keep in mind:

  1. The black color is lost if we use a dark theme (and black is by far the most used color)
  2. The colors of strokes and fill also could have opacities, which makes the problem worse with dark themes
  3. We need to have a way to filter colors by object (you can see a proposal in the mockup)

UI_MAT_SELECTOR.png

Yes, I like the proposal, but problems arise when we expand the list. Things to keep in mind: 1. The black color is lost if we use a dark theme (and black is by far the most used color) 2. The colors of strokes and fill also could have opacities, which makes the problem worse with dark themes 3. We need to have a way to filter colors by object (you can see a proposal in the mockup) ![UI_MAT_SELECTOR.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3297132/UI_MAT_SELECTOR.png)

We could draw a white outline around it? Also we can put a checkerboard pattern behind each item to show the opacity.

The object button makes sense, yes.

We could draw a white outline around it? Also we can put a checkerboard pattern behind each item to show the opacity. The object button makes sense, yes.

Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 15.01.44.png

![Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 15.01.44.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3297206/Screen_Shot_2018-05-07_at_15.01.44.png)

yes, maybe the outline could work

UI_MAT_SELECTOR_02.PNG

yes, maybe the outline could work ![UI_MAT_SELECTOR_02.PNG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3297198/UI_MAT_SELECTOR_02.PNG)

Yes, something like that, yes

Yes, something like that, yes

Great, I like it. I think we are on the right track. The checkerboard pattern behind will help a lot

Great, I like it. I think we are on the right track. The checkerboard pattern behind will help a lot

For better consistency. Could be possible to use this kind of material visualization for the G-pencil materials in the properties editor?

For better consistency. Could be possible to use this kind of material visualization for the G-pencil materials in the properties editor?
Author
Member

Indeed. I was going to mention that we really should be integrating/making the GP colors preview get done using some dynamic icon system (i.e. much like the material previews), instead of having our own little modal operator that draws its own stuff in its own way. That way, GP materials always draw the right way.

Indeed. I was going to mention that we really should be integrating/making the GP colors preview get done using some dynamic icon system (i.e. much like the material previews), instead of having our own little modal operator that draws its own stuff in its own way. That way, GP materials always draw the right way.

Excellent @JoshuaLeung !

Excellent @JoshuaLeung !

Added subscriber: @LucianoMunoz

Added subscriber: @LucianoMunoz

Added subscriber: @juang3d

Added subscriber: @juang3d

Added subscriber: @DavidKozma

Added subscriber: @DavidKozma

Hi guys
I hope you don't mind an idea from an outsider - what would you think about swatches like these?
swaches idea.png

I liked the original GP swatches horizontal nature - they fit much better in lists and toolbars.
So I went back to that and tried to solve the problems you listed in that form factor.
(2 versions for showing "no color" and 2 overall versions with a slight change in the middle)

Hi guys I hope you don't mind an idea from an outsider - what would you think about swatches like these? ![swaches idea.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3304170/swaches_idea.png) I liked the original GP swatches horizontal nature - they fit much better in lists and toolbars. So I went back to that and tried to solve the problems you listed in that form factor. (2 versions for showing "no color" and 2 overall versions with a slight change in the middle)

Thanks @DavidKozma, any help is always welcome. I think your very thick line for stroke color is what we are looking for and really like the idea of showing clearly when the fill or strokes colors are not used.

Thanks @DavidKozma, any help is always welcome. I think your very thick line for stroke color is what we are looking for and really like the idea of showing clearly when the fill or strokes colors are not used.

David Kozma: Nicely done.

I find this one especially clear:
Screen Shot 2018-05-08 at 16.46.09.png

Works well.

David Kozma: Nicely done. I find this one especially clear: ![Screen Shot 2018-05-08 at 16.46.09.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3304983/Screen_Shot_2018-05-08_at_16.46.09.png) Works well.
Member

Added subscriber: @pablovazquez

Added subscriber: @pablovazquez
Member

+1

Good job @DavidKozma!

+1 Good job @DavidKozma!

I've tested with the list expanded. I suggest to invert the stoke and fill order (stroke to the left) because is how G-pencil always use to work.
UI_MAT_OP5.png

I've tested with the list expanded. I suggest to invert the stoke and fill order (stroke to the left) because is how G-pencil always use to work. ![UI_MAT_OP5.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3305028/UI_MAT_OP5.png)

Thanks guys!
It's all yours to use :)

I know it's not a big deal to redraw them but here are an svg and an ai file if you'd like to tinker with it.
(the svg flattens the stroke though :( )

ideaForGPSwatches2.ai
GPSwatches.svg

Thanks guys! It's all yours to use :) I know it's not a big deal to redraw them but here are an svg and an ai file if you'd like to tinker with it. (the svg flattens the stroke though :( ) [ideaForGPSwatches2.ai](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3305061/ideaForGPSwatches2.ai) [GPSwatches.svg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3305062/GPSwatches.svg)

Thanks @kynu. List mockup updated:

UI_MAT_OP5.png

Thanks @kynu. List mockup updated: ![UI_MAT_OP5.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3305126/UI_MAT_OP5.png)

haha, nice!
I just had my cursor on the submit button to send the same :)

haha, nice! I just had my cursor on the submit button to send the same :)

I really like the last design.

I really like the last design.

Thanks Antonio!

As I see the small thumbnails there's one last thing I might change in my proposal:
The fills could have a little more space:
image.png

Thanks Antonio! As I see the small thumbnails there's one last thing I might change in my proposal: The fills could have a little more space: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3305210/image.png)

Looks good. This works.

Looks good. This works.

yes, agree

yes, agree

materials list mockup in properties editor with the current default G-pencil colors UI_MAT_OP_6_Prop.png

materials list mockup in properties editor with the current default G-pencil colors ![UI_MAT_OP_6_Prop.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3306164/UI_MAT_OP_6_Prop.png)

If you think the majority of GP lines used will be unfilled then I might opt for not showing the fill at all by default - or with a subtle outline only as in my first (left) proposal
image.png

Simply to make it less noisy looking.
Also if we use the cross line (I'd only use it for lines not fills), in this small scale they should be thicker
Sorry I just looked at it with a fresh eye now :)

If you think the majority of GP lines used will be unfilled then I might opt for not showing the fill at all by default - or with a subtle outline only as in my first (left) proposal ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3306428/image.png) Simply to make it less noisy looking. Also if we use the cross line (I'd only use it for lines not fills), in this small scale they should be thicker Sorry I just looked at it with a fresh eye now :)

Personally I prefer the left one with less red diagonal lines, because the red lines are so visual intrusive in my opinion

Personally I prefer the left one with less red diagonal lines, because the red lines are so visual intrusive in my opinion

yes, agree Daniel. That's why mockups in different contexts are so useful, it's more easy to found problems

yes, agree Daniel. That's why mockups in different contexts are so useful, it's more easy to found problems

push it a little further: only stroke, only fill and mixed color icons. What do you think?

UI_MAT_OP_7.png

UI_MAT_OP5.png

push it a little further: only stroke, only fill and mixed color icons. What do you think? ![UI_MAT_OP_7.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3306586/UI_MAT_OP_7.png) ![UI_MAT_OP5.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3306611/UI_MAT_OP5.png)

For me personally it's a step back. I'd keep them consistent in their separate place - it's important to know at a glance what's going on and just by looking at the little holes it's not fast enough.

For me personally it's a step back. I'd keep them consistent in their separate place - it's important to know at a glance what's going on and just by looking at the little holes it's not fast enough.

@mendio In the color list we are missing something: The user can modifiy the colors.

image.png

If we display the stroke & fill in the same icon, it's very difficult to select the color to modify.

We have 2 options here:

a) Remove change color functionality and use always the bottom panel.
b) Display two icons as before.

@mendio In the color list we are missing something: The user can modifiy the colors. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3309990/image.png) If we display the stroke & fill in the same icon, it's very difficult to select the color to modify. We have 2 options here: a) Remove change color functionality and use always the bottom panel. b) Display two icons as before.

So true, the color picker popup when you press the color icons in color list is totally needed.

So true, the color picker popup when you press the color icons in color list is totally needed.

good point Antonio, so we need to show always both: strokes and color, but in a less visually intrusive way than the diagonal red line over white background.

We also have to keep in mind an icon that work well with a future dynamic icon system as @JoshuaLeung said. Remember that strokes and fill could also have gradients and textures.

good point Antonio, so we need to show always both: strokes and color, but in a less visually intrusive way than the diagonal red line over white background. We also have to keep in mind an icon that work well with a future dynamic icon system as @JoshuaLeung said. Remember that strokes and fill could also have gradients and textures.

another approach

UI_MAT_OP_B3.png

UI_MAT_OP_B2.png

UI_MAT_OP_B1.png

another approach ![UI_MAT_OP_B3.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3312919/UI_MAT_OP_B3.png) ![UI_MAT_OP_B2.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3312918/UI_MAT_OP_B2.png) ![UI_MAT_OP_B1.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3312917/UI_MAT_OP_B1.png)

There is something I haven't seen yet: The "pin" button to filter to "only active object" materials.

Maybe this button must be on the right of the list?

There is something I haven't seen yet: The "pin" button to filter to "only active object" materials. Maybe this button must be on the right of the list?

Added subscriber: @AdrianCabrera

Added subscriber: @AdrianCabrera

Hello another outisider. I am very excited for the new grease pencil features and am a regular user. In my scenes I have many GP objects and worried the color picker object filter list will be cluttered.

Would it be possible to filter by collections and not just objects for when very large number of grease pencil objects are created? This way the objects can be nested in the object filter list.

Hello another outisider. I am very excited for the new grease pencil features and am a regular user. In my scenes I have many GP objects and worried the color picker object filter list will be cluttered. Would it be possible to filter by collections and not just objects for when very large number of grease pencil objects are created? This way the objects can be nested in the object filter list.

@AdrianCabrera The current color picker is going to be replace by a new system and yes, you will be able to filter (not decided how yet). These new system must be implemented after merge the grease pencil branch in blender 2.8 branch.

@AdrianCabrera The current color picker is going to be replace by a new system and yes, you will be able to filter (not decided how yet). These new system must be implemented after merge the grease pencil branch in blender 2.8 branch.

@WilliamReynish : @antoniov is working right now on the toolbar for Grease pencil. We already have the icons for draw mode, but we also need icons for Sculpt mode and Weight paint mode. Could you help us with this?

For reference, these are the icons that we are using in the Grease pencil branch an their names:

Captura.PNG

@WilliamReynish : @antoniov is working right now on the toolbar for Grease pencil. We already have the icons for draw mode, but we also need icons for Sculpt mode and Weight paint mode. Could you help us with this? For reference, these are the icons that we are using in the Grease pencil branch an their names: ![Captura.PNG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3907426/Captura.PNG)

For sure. I am away for the summer, but will have time to organize remaining icons in August.

For sure. I am away for the summer, but will have time to organize remaining icons in August.

what is the problem with these icons theyre great!

what is the problem with these icons theyre great!

They are good. One of the main issues is that they have no alpha background, so they won’t work well on the toolbar as-is. Other things is we need to unify all the toolbar icons with a common visual language.

They are good. One of the main issues is that they have no alpha background, so they won’t work well on the toolbar as-is. Other things is we need to unify all the toolbar icons with a common visual language.

In #54896#517823, @LucianoMunoz wrote:
what is the problem with these icons theyre great!

Thanks Luciano! was my design :)
but as William pointed out is better for Blender UI to have an unified icons set.

> In #54896#517823, @LucianoMunoz wrote: > what is the problem with these icons theyre great! Thanks Luciano! was my design :) but as William pointed out is better for Blender UI to have an unified icons set.

Added subscriber: @PierreSchiller

Added subscriber: @PierreSchiller

I totally agree that the new icons SHOULD NOT INCLUDE THE ENTIRE PENCIL/ PEN.
What´s important is the STROKE look and feel on the icon. JUST use an icon representing the PEN/PENCIL NIB and give focus to the stroke on the toolbar icon representation.
Just like it was on the previous 2.8.5 GP branch.

Regarding the stroke and fill, I also agree that should be represented like the squares posted above this post. Fill square + Outline square. That´s how it´s been since computers are computers... No need to reinvent the wheel.

I totally agree that the new icons SHOULD NOT INCLUDE THE ENTIRE PENCIL/ PEN. What´s important is the STROKE look and feel on the icon. JUST use an icon representing the PEN/PENCIL NIB and give focus to the stroke on the toolbar icon representation. Just like it was on the previous 2.8.5 GP branch. Regarding the stroke and fill, I also agree that should be represented like the squares posted above this post. Fill square + Outline square. That´s how it´s been since computers are computers... No need to reinvent the wheel.

Added subscriber: @mrjynx

Added subscriber: @mrjynx

can I suggest something cos im getting kind of desperate here?

a point to point curve drawing tool, like the new line drawing tool. to create smooth controlled curves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugVn5Wq6DvU

rather than having to draw a stroke and hoping smooth will take care of it to get exactly what you want.

can I suggest something cos im getting kind of desperate here? a point to point curve drawing tool, like the new line drawing tool. to create smooth controlled curves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugVn5Wq6DvU rather than having to draw a stroke and hoping smooth will take care of it to get exactly what you want.

After doing a research of the options we had for the new color selector, the initial idea was not the best, so we change to use previews. Previews are better for several reasons, some of them are:

  • Use standard methods already tested.
  • Seamlessly integrated in UI.
  • Show all material features.
  • Easy to maintain.

Here are the designs we have done.

BLOG_GP_MERGE_PREVIEW.jpg

And for the color selector.

BLOG_GP_MERGE_COLORS.png

The previews allow replace the old single color list to a more realistic representation of the material.

BLOG_GP_MERGE_LIST.png

After doing a research of the options we had for the new color selector, the initial idea was not the best, so we change to use previews. Previews are better for several reasons, some of them are: - Use standard methods already tested. - Seamlessly integrated in UI. - Show all material features. - Easy to maintain. Here are the designs we have done. ![BLOG_GP_MERGE_PREVIEW.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3980420/BLOG_GP_MERGE_PREVIEW.jpg) And for the color selector. ![BLOG_GP_MERGE_COLORS.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3980424/BLOG_GP_MERGE_COLORS.png) The previews allow replace the old single color list to a more realistic representation of the material. ![BLOG_GP_MERGE_LIST.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F3980428/BLOG_GP_MERGE_LIST.png)

@WilliamReynish welcome back!

We have been working in the tool bar icons while you were on vacation. Matias design new isons and I implemented the toolbar. Also, we have been working in color selector in top bar doing a new preview system that works really well.

image.png

Now, that you are here again, please contact with @mendio before doing changes in icon_geom.blend file because he has a changed version (he could not sent to SVN because we haven't right to do it).

@WilliamReynish welcome back! We have been working in the tool bar icons while you were on vacation. Matias design new isons and I implemented the toolbar. Also, we have been working in color selector in top bar doing a new preview system that works really well. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F4015594/image.png) Now, that you are here again, please contact with @mendio before doing changes in icon_geom.blend file because he has a changed version (he could not sent to SVN because we haven't right to do it).

This comment was removed by @antoniov

*This comment was removed by @antoniov*

@WilliamReynish yes, I've been working on icon_geom.blend file to port there Aslam icons design for Draw mode, and I also adapted the icons that we've already been using for Sculpt and Weight paint mode and it turn out they work well together! I just only had to make a few tweaks for better visivility at small size and some color changes to follow the new icon design.

Toolbar.jpg

@WilliamReynish yes, I've been working on icon_geom.blend file to port there Aslam icons design for Draw mode, and I also adapted the icons that we've already been using for Sculpt and Weight paint mode and it turn out they work well together! I just only had to make a few tweaks for better visivility at small size and some color changes to follow the new icon design. ![Toolbar.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F4022361/Toolbar.jpg)

Great! The tool settings & top bar settings are coming together nicely. I think you've done very well with the GP and annotations UI.

To make more improvements, we really need to work on the underlying tool/brush system in Blender. One of the main issues currently is that tools are not brushes, which creates a weird sync issue where the brush can get out of sync with the active tool. This problem exists in Sculpt mode and all of Blender's brush modes too, and is not a GP problem. I spoke with Campbell a while back, and he has ideas on how to make this nicer.

A few smaller points specific to the GP tools & top bar:

  • Would be great to put all the tool settings in the top bar. You have Brush Curves and Options. we could handle these just like the Sculpt Mode popovers.
  • Stroke Placement & axis lock is a tool setting, and should therefore not be in the 3D View header, but top bar/tool settings
  • The toggle to switch between the compact material list vs the icons would be really nice to place inside the material popup itself. Right now it's a bit inelegant to have this top level. Don't know how easy that is though.
  • Currently, the active brush overrides the gizmos, so if you try and manipulate the view with the viewport gizmo, it draws instead :)
Great! The tool settings & top bar settings are coming together nicely. I think you've done very well with the GP and annotations UI. To make more improvements, we really need to work on the underlying tool/brush system in Blender. One of the main issues currently is that tools are not brushes, which creates a weird sync issue where the brush can get out of sync with the active tool. This problem exists in Sculpt mode and all of Blender's brush modes too, and is not a GP problem. I spoke with Campbell a while back, and he has ideas on how to make this nicer. A few smaller points specific to the GP tools & top bar: - Would be great to put all the tool settings in the top bar. You have Brush Curves and Options. we could handle these just like the Sculpt Mode popovers. - Stroke Placement & axis lock is a tool setting, and should therefore not be in the 3D View header, but top bar/tool settings - The toggle to switch between the compact material list vs the icons would be really nice to place inside the material popup itself. Right now it's a bit inelegant to have this top level. Don't know how easy that is though. - Currently, the active brush overrides the gizmos, so if you try and manipulate the view with the viewport gizmo, it draws instead :)

Added subscriber: @ideasman42

Added subscriber: @ideasman42

About the problem with viewport gizmo, I opened task #55420.

I hope @ideasman42 can take a look on this becase I was unable to know how detect the cursor is over gizmo.

About the problem with viewport gizmo, I opened task #55420. I hope @ideasman42 can take a look on this becase I was unable to know how detect the cursor is over gizmo.

Ah right, for sure. He probably knows what to do here - we can just wait for him to be back.

Ah right, for sure. He probably knows what to do here - we can just wait for him to be back.

@WilliamReynish The stroke palcement and lock is used for any of the drawing brushes and is not linked to "only one" brush. is still valid put these parameters in toolbar?

@WilliamReynish The stroke palcement and lock is used for any of the drawing brushes and is not linked to "only one" brush. is still valid put these parameters in toolbar?

I would say so, yes. I don't think it matters that the same option is available in more than one tool - that's completely fine.

I would say so, yes. I don't think it matters that the same option is available in more than one tool - that's completely fine.

Added subscriber: @zeauro

Added subscriber: @zeauro

This comment was removed by @zeauro

*This comment was removed by @zeauro*

In #54896#521334, @WilliamReynish wrote:
Great! The tool settings & top bar settings are coming together nicely. I think you've done very well with the GP and annotations UI.

To make more improvements, we really need to work on the underlying tool/brush system in Blender. One of the main issues currently is that tools are not brushes, which creates a weird sync issue where the brush can get out of sync with the active tool. This problem exists in Sculpt mode and all of Blender's brush modes too, and is not a GP problem. I spoke with Campbell a while back, and he has ideas on how to make this nicer.

A few smaller points specific to the GP tools & top bar:

  • Would be great to put all the tool settings in the top bar. You have Brush Curves and Options. we could handle these just like the Sculpt Mode popovers.
  • Stroke Placement & axis lock is a tool setting, and should therefore not be in the 3D View header, but top bar/tool settings
  • The toggle to switch between the compact material list vs the icons would be really nice to place inside the material popup itself. Right now it's a bit inelegant to have this top level. Don't know how easy that is though.
  • Currently, the active brush overrides the gizmos, so if you try and manipulate the view with the viewport gizmo, it draws instead :)

@WilliamReynish Stroke Placement, axis lock and draw on back are not tool settings, they are general for all the brushes and related to the 3d view placement of the strokes. They should come back to the 3D View header

> In #54896#521334, @WilliamReynish wrote: > Great! The tool settings & top bar settings are coming together nicely. I think you've done very well with the GP and annotations UI. > > To make more improvements, we really need to work on the underlying tool/brush system in Blender. One of the main issues currently is that tools are not brushes, which creates a weird sync issue where the brush can get out of sync with the active tool. This problem exists in Sculpt mode and all of Blender's brush modes too, and is not a GP problem. I spoke with Campbell a while back, and he has ideas on how to make this nicer. > > A few smaller points specific to the GP tools & top bar: > > - Would be great to put all the tool settings in the top bar. You have Brush Curves and Options. we could handle these just like the Sculpt Mode popovers. > - Stroke Placement & axis lock is a tool setting, and should therefore not be in the 3D View header, but top bar/tool settings > - The toggle to switch between the compact material list vs the icons would be really nice to place inside the material popup itself. Right now it's a bit inelegant to have this top level. Don't know how easy that is though. > - Currently, the active brush overrides the gizmos, so if you try and manipulate the view with the viewport gizmo, it draws instead :) @WilliamReynish Stroke Placement, axis lock and draw on back are not tool settings, they are general for all the brushes and related to the 3d view placement of the strokes. They should come back to the 3D View header

@WilliamReynish Sorry, I did not realize that you already answered to Antonio about this before. IMO for avoid user confusion all these settings that are viewport related should be only in the 3D view header

@WilliamReynish Sorry, I did not realize that you already answered to Antonio about this before. IMO for avoid user confusion all these settings that are viewport related should be **only** in the 3D view header

Yest, these settings that are viewport related should be in the 3D view header

Yest, these settings that are viewport related should be in the 3D view header

Added subscriber: @Djay

Added subscriber: @Djay

I proposed stroke placement and locking popovers dynamically switching with transform orientation and snapping popover in header of 3DView.
But I realized that Annotation could be used for addons for modeling purpose.
It would imply masking of transform orientation popover when it could be used.

The fact is that there is not so much space available in 3D View header whan it does not take 3/4 of the screen.
But there is in topbar and as a modal setting, it does not seem to be so disturbing.
Setting is not changing while brush is changed.
So, I removed my comment.

But yes. Maybe things could be different for annotation brushes and GP object brushes that are only available in a draw mode where no transform orientation popover exists.

I proposed stroke placement and locking popovers dynamically switching with transform orientation and snapping popover in header of 3DView. But I realized that Annotation could be used for addons for modeling purpose. It would imply masking of transform orientation popover when it could be used. The fact is that there is not so much space available in 3D View header whan it does not take 3/4 of the screen. But there is in topbar and as a modal setting, it does not seem to be so disturbing. Setting is not changing while brush is changed. So, I removed my comment. But yes. Maybe things could be different for annotation brushes and GP object brushes that are only available in a draw mode where no transform orientation popover exists.

I don't get the viewport thing. Everything is visible in the viewport, of course. Same goes for strength, radius, stroke settings, etc. I can't see that the stroke placement thing is different here.

The important thing here is that these settings change the behaviour of the active tool, and so it's a tool setting.

I don't get the viewport thing. Everything is visible in the viewport, of course. Same goes for strength, radius, stroke settings, etc. I can't see that the stroke placement thing is different here. The important thing here is that these settings change the behaviour of the active tool, and so it's a tool setting.

Removed subscriber: @DavidKozma

Removed subscriber: @DavidKozma

@WilliamReynish We still have pending where relocate the old toolbar operators like this:

image.png

Any idea?

@WilliamReynish We still have pending where relocate the old toolbar operators like this: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F4032420/image.png) Any idea?

If you try to be consistent with Mesh Edit mode, you have to keep transform operators as potential active tools and move the rest to menus.
In mesh edit mode, 3 menus (vertex, edge, face) have been added.

So, you could add an Arrange menu to contain Arrange strokes, move to color, Join, Separate, Reproject ... operators.

You can also avoid Sculpt items in Strokes that should only be available in sculpt mode.
To sum-up, Strokes menu could be simpler. And if it is still too long, you can create a second menu.

Animation panel options could be a popover on the right of topbar.
But it could also make sense to adapt Timeline header to an active GP object to handle interpolate buttons.
Or at least, to create corresponding icons in dopesheet header.

If you try to be consistent with Mesh Edit mode, you have to keep transform operators as potential active tools and move the rest to menus. In mesh edit mode, 3 menus (vertex, edge, face) have been added. So, you could add an Arrange menu to contain Arrange strokes, move to color, Join, Separate, Reproject ... operators. You can also avoid Sculpt items in Strokes that should only be available in sculpt mode. To sum-up, Strokes menu could be simpler. And if it is still too long, you can create a second menu. Animation panel options could be a popover on the right of topbar. But it could also make sense to adapt Timeline header to an active GP object to handle interpolate buttons. Or at least, to create corresponding icons in dopesheet header.

In #54896#521403, @WilliamReynish wrote:
I don't get the viewport thing. Everything is visible in the viewport, of course. Same goes for strength, radius, stroke settings, etc. I can't see that the stroke placement thing is different here.

The important thing here is that these settings change the behaviour of the active tool, and so it's a tool setting.

stroke placement tools (Stroke Placement - Axis lock - Draw on back) are general parameters for placement the strokes on the 3D space. They actually affects all the Grease pencil objects that you may have in the viewport and not only one in particular.

It's not just a brush setting, it's not even a setting per object. It's more like a viewport parameter, something simmilar like when you use the pivot point with meshes to set your point of rotation, you set it once to use with all the objects in the scene till you need to change it again.

That's why IMO the viewport header is the more appropriate place for this.
If you want @WilliamReynish , we can make you a quick video showing the behaviour.

> In #54896#521403, @WilliamReynish wrote: > I don't get the viewport thing. Everything is visible in the viewport, of course. Same goes for strength, radius, stroke settings, etc. I can't see that the stroke placement thing is different here. > > The important thing here is that these settings change the behaviour of the active tool, and so it's a tool setting. stroke placement tools (Stroke Placement - Axis lock - Draw on back) are general parameters for placement the strokes on the 3D space. They actually affects all the Grease pencil objects that you may have in the viewport and not only one in particular. It's not just a brush setting, it's not even a setting per object. It's more like a viewport parameter, something simmilar like when you use the pivot point with meshes to set your point of rotation, you set it once to use with all the objects in the scene till you need to change it again. That's why IMO the viewport header is the more appropriate place for this. If you want @WilliamReynish , we can make you a quick video showing the behaviour.

In #54896#521545, @antoniov wrote:
@WilliamReynish We still have pending where relocate the old toolbar operators like this:

image.png

Any idea?

Yes. We had the same type of thing for mesh edit mode, and other modes too. Here's how we think we should deal with those types of operators:

We don't actually call those 'tools', but 'commands', because they don't stay active. They simply execute a command.

  • First, we should make sure that they are all available from the menus. From here, users can right-click and add items to the Q-menu for quicker access. In Mesh Edit Mode, we added more top-level menus, so that users don't have to drill many levels down to find editing commands.
  • Second, some of those could be made into active tools. Any operator for a transform is a good candidate, such as Bend, Shear, etc. We should also make Move, Rotate, Scale available here in the toolbar.
  • We should review the Context (W) menu to make sure the most-used features are included here.
  • Lastly, if needed, we might later introduce the Quick Menu as a panel in the sidebar for all the modes. This could also serve as an interface for re-ordering and removing Q menu items.

Make sense?

> In #54896#521545, @antoniov wrote: > @WilliamReynish We still have pending where relocate the old toolbar operators like this: > > ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F4032420/image.png) > > Any idea? Yes. We had the same type of thing for mesh edit mode, and other modes too. Here's how we think we should deal with those types of operators: We don't actually call those 'tools', but 'commands', because they don't stay active. They simply execute a command. - First, we should make sure that they are all available from the menus. From here, users can right-click and add items to the Q-menu for quicker access. In Mesh Edit Mode, we added more top-level menus, so that users don't have to drill many levels down to find editing commands. - Second, some of those could be made into active tools. Any operator for a transform is a good candidate, such as Bend, Shear, etc. We should also make Move, Rotate, Scale available here in the toolbar. - We should review the Context (W) menu to make sure the most-used features are included here. - Lastly, if needed, we might later introduce the Quick Menu as a panel in the sidebar for all the modes. This could also serve as an interface for re-ordering and removing Q menu items. Make sense?

In #54896#521586, @mendio wrote:
stroke placement tools (Stroke Placement - Axis lock - Draw on back) are general parameters for placement the strokes on the 3D space. They actually affects all the Grease pencil objects that you may have in the viewport and not only one in particular.

Well, that is expected for a tool setting, surely. A tool setting is not a per-object thing, as in an object property, but simply something that changes the behaviour of a tool.

It's similar to the Front Faces Only or 2D Falloff tool settings in Sculpt Mode or the Orientation setting when using the 3D Cursor tool.

Granted, in Mesh Edit Mode, we've now put the Transform Orientations, Snapping and Proportional Editing controls in the 3D View, but that was specifically because those things also apply when no active tool is used, if you just use G, R or S shortcuts.

For Sculpt/Paint/Draw modes, we don't have that problem, because users are always using active tools here, so we can simply put all the tool settings in the top bar and the Tool Properties.

I'm on IRC - we could chat there also, could be easier :)

> In #54896#521586, @mendio wrote: > stroke placement tools (Stroke Placement - Axis lock - Draw on back) are general parameters for placement the strokes on the 3D space. They actually affects all the Grease pencil objects that you may have in the viewport and not only one in particular. Well, that is expected for a tool setting, surely. A tool setting is not a per-object thing, as in an object property, but simply something that changes the behaviour of a tool. It's similar to the Front Faces Only or 2D Falloff tool settings in Sculpt Mode or the Orientation setting when using the 3D Cursor tool. Granted, in Mesh Edit Mode, we've now put the Transform Orientations, Snapping and Proportional Editing controls in the 3D View, but that was specifically because those things also apply when no active tool is used, if you just use G, R or S shortcuts. For Sculpt/Paint/Draw modes, we don't have that problem, because users are always using active tools here, so we can simply put all the tool settings in the top bar and the Tool Properties. I'm on IRC - we could chat there also, could be easier :)

I am not sure Shapes popover is needed in Draw mode.

3 shapes (line, rectangle circle) are requesting use of left click and choose of an active material. It would be valid to have them as an active tool in toolbar and see their material in topbar.
And there is space in toolbar to add another group of active.

I am not sure Shapes popover is needed in Draw mode. 3 shapes (line, rectangle circle) are requesting use of left click and choose of an active material. It would be valid to have them as an active tool in toolbar and see their material in topbar. And there is space in toolbar to add another group of active.

Shapes popover is a temp location, the final idea is move a tools.

Shapes popover is a temp location, the final idea is move a tools.

Added subscriber: @DuarteRamos

Added subscriber: @DuarteRamos

In #54896#521587, @WilliamReynish wrote:

In #54896#521545, @antoniov wrote:
@WilliamReynish We still have pending where relocate the old toolbar operators like this:

image.png

Any idea?

Yes.

We would still would need a convenient place for addons to place their tools.

I kind of liked the old separation between tools in the tool shelf to the left, and properties to the right. Tabs provide a good way quickly access a lot of interface real estate.

Since the new toolbar now occupies the left I was wondering if in addition to the all h the new menus tabs could be introduced to the Properties Area on the right of the 3D view instead. The first tab would be the Properties themselves, which can hold what it currently holds (object transforms, and other settings not moved to the header), a few tabs for misc commands plus whatever addon generated tools and settings the users want.

Additionally it would also help if the user defined Quick menu could be organized into expandable sub menus, and have separators, so it doesn't quickly turn into a long hard to scan list.

> In #54896#521587, @WilliamReynish wrote: >> In #54896#521545, @antoniov wrote: >> @WilliamReynish We still have pending where relocate the old toolbar operators like this: >> >> ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F4032420/image.png) >> >> Any idea? > > Yes. We would still would need a convenient place for addons to place their tools. I kind of liked the old separation between tools in the tool shelf to the left, and properties to the right. Tabs provide a good way quickly access a lot of interface real estate. Since the new toolbar now occupies the left I was wondering if in addition to the all h the new menus tabs could be introduced to the *Properties Area* on the right of the 3D view instead. The first tab would be the *Properties* themselves, which can hold what it currently holds (object transforms, and other settings not moved to the header), a few tabs for misc commands plus whatever addon generated tools and settings the users want. Additionally it would also help if the user defined Quick menu could be organized into expandable sub menus, and have separators, so it doesn't quickly turn into a long hard to scan list.

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Archived'

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Archived'
Sign in to join this conversation.
No Label
Interest
Alembic
Interest
Animation & Rigging
Interest
Asset System
Interest
Audio
Interest
Automated Testing
Interest
Blender Asset Bundle
Interest
BlendFile
Interest
Collada
Interest
Compatibility
Interest
Compositing
Interest
Core
Interest
Cycles
Interest
Dependency Graph
Interest
Development Management
Interest
EEVEE
Interest
EEVEE & Viewport
Interest
Freestyle
Interest
Geometry Nodes
Interest
Grease Pencil
Interest
ID Management
Interest
Images & Movies
Interest
Import Export
Interest
Line Art
Interest
Masking
Interest
Metal
Interest
Modeling
Interest
Modifiers
Interest
Motion Tracking
Interest
Nodes & Physics
Interest
OpenGL
Interest
Overlay
Interest
Overrides
Interest
Performance
Interest
Physics
Interest
Pipeline, Assets & IO
Interest
Platforms, Builds & Tests
Interest
Python API
Interest
Render & Cycles
Interest
Render Pipeline
Interest
Sculpt, Paint & Texture
Interest
Text Editor
Interest
Translations
Interest
Triaging
Interest
Undo
Interest
USD
Interest
User Interface
Interest
UV Editing
Interest
VFX & Video
Interest
Video Sequencer
Interest
Virtual Reality
Interest
Vulkan
Interest
Wayland
Interest
Workbench
Interest: X11
Legacy
Asset Browser Project
Legacy
Blender 2.8 Project
Legacy
Milestone 1: Basic, Local Asset Browser
Legacy
OpenGL Error
Meta
Good First Issue
Meta
Papercut
Meta
Retrospective
Meta
Security
Module
Animation & Rigging
Module
Core
Module
Development Management
Module
EEVEE & Viewport
Module
Grease Pencil
Module
Modeling
Module
Nodes & Physics
Module
Pipeline, Assets & IO
Module
Platforms, Builds & Tests
Module
Python API
Module
Render & Cycles
Module
Sculpt, Paint & Texture
Module
Triaging
Module
User Interface
Module
VFX & Video
Platform
FreeBSD
Platform
Linux
Platform
macOS
Platform
Windows
Priority
High
Priority
Low
Priority
Normal
Priority
Unbreak Now!
Status
Archived
Status
Confirmed
Status
Duplicate
Status
Needs Info from Developers
Status
Needs Information from User
Status
Needs Triage
Status
Resolved
Type
Bug
Type
Design
Type
Known Issue
Type
Patch
Type
Report
Type
To Do
No Milestone
No project
No Assignees
16 Participants
Notifications
Due Date
The due date is invalid or out of range. Please use the format 'yyyy-mm-dd'.

No due date set.

Dependencies

No dependencies set.

Reference: blender/blender#54896
No description provided.