Bendy Bones: Bone Size / Envelope Reversed #75465
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Reference: blender/blender#75465
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System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.18362-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: GeForce RTX 2070/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 441.66
Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.83 (sub 11), branch: master, commit date: 2020-04-04 16:55, hash:
505a19ed75
Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected)
Short description of error
Using bendy bones using the Envelope tool alters the bone size of the bendy bones (Calls
bpy.ops.transform.bbone_resize()
) instead the bone size tool should adjust this.This UX is a bit strange, the bone size and bone envelope should always affect
envelope_distance
andhead_radius
/tail_radius
.There should be a third tool that only calls
bpy.ops.transform.bbone_resize()
called "Bendy Bone Size".The Envelope and Bone Size tools should probably be renamed to more specific names such as "Envelop Tail/Head Radius" and "Envelope Distance"
Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Use the two tools on bendy bones and other bone display types.
Added subscriber: @Blendify
From the manual:
Added subscribers: @WilliamReynish, @ideasman42, @lichtwerk
Please check #72903 (Bone Envelope and Bone Size tools appear to have switched functions) and
dd2cdd436f
.Also a bit sceptical that this was the right fix ^
CC @WilliamReynish
CC @ideasman42
My attempt at a fix but something weird is still happening when changing bone display types.
P1332: (An Untitled Masterwork)
Added subscriber: @dr.sybren
@Blendify can you be more specific about the "something weird"?
How does this report differ from {#72903}?
@dr.sybren: this is the "reverse" report :)
#72903 was reported,
dd2cdd436f
was commited [that commit swapped it -- to me, this was not really the right fix, see my comments in #72903]Now this report more or less want the original state back...
double-post
Added subscribers: @Mets, @jpbouza-4
@jpbouza-4 @Mets please share your opinion on these tools. There has been quite a bit of confusion over what they do already, and instead of doing other smaller changes to try and close this report ASAP I would rather see a proper solution.
My concrete questions to you:
I'm a bit confused because the post makes it sound like there are two current tools relating to those properties, a "Bone Size" and an "Envelope" tool, but I cannot see the latter!
"Bone Size" as a term in general is ambiguous and I would avoid it in tool names, documentation, everywhere. There's bone length, envelope radius, envelope distance, bbone scale and even custom shape scale. That's just edit mode. All these things have names that describe them perfectly, there is no need for ambiguity.
In a perfect world, I agree that there would be three tools:
On a side note: I don't understand the use case for the Shear tool, but why does it have 6 gizmos? Seems like it only needs 3.
By something weird I mean, one tool is changing different bone properties depending on what bone shape is being used.
There is a sub tool called "Bine Envelope" nested with "Bone Size"
If we are hiding tools based on the armature display should mean we hide panels not related to the armature display type.
On another note, calling it "Armature Display Type" seems weird to me, I think it should be just "Armature Type" and moved out of the Viewport display panel.
This property does more than change how the bone is shown in the viewport as it also changes how the bone is used and the properties it has.
Added subscriber: @JulianEisel
I'd be fine with three tools as @Mets suggests. I also agree with @Blendify that Armature Type would be a better name.
As for the tools, that's in the realm of @ideasman42 and @Severin. What do you guys think?
Guys, maybe I'm understanding things wrong, but there seems to be a misconception here. I don't think the 'Armature display type" label should be changed. It is in fact only a display option, it doesn't affect the functionality of bones in any way. So changing it to just Armature Type would imply that setting it to bbones or stick would make the armature behave in a different way when it doesn't.
Also, just to clarify something that I think was not mentioned is that as far as I know, the Bone size (the one that affects bbones) is again just a display option, it doesn't affect functionality of a bbone in any way. On the other hand, the envelope options do have an impact on deformation when you use the envelope option (which I never do because it has a huge performance impact)
Those are my 2 cents!
Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'
Added subscriber: @AndresStephens
Can confirm the issue:
Right now, it is nearly impossible to know that you can scale Bendy Bones (when rig display is set to Bendy Bones) by using the "Bone Envelope tool" - something completely de-attached from bendy bone scale concerning UX.
Could we add a "Change Bounding Bone Size" button or make the operator change name/icon dynamically based on the rig visibility type? Or find some other solution, maybe a separate operator name and tooltip.
Ideally:
When rig is in Envelope mode, this tool has the name "Bone Envelope"
When the rig is in Bendy Bone mode, this tool has the name "B-Bone Scale" - optionally changing icon.
Or have two buttons for the different tools - instead of the one and the same for disjoint UX.
Reason:
UI Discoverability
Task