Design: More frame snapping options #91973

New Issue

Problem

When dragging the frame cursor around you often want to hit keyframes.
Currently this is hard to do, especially when zoomed out. (also because you are not sure when you've hit the key)

Frame snapping already exists, but it only snaps to seconds.
This is activated with CTRL

Design Question

Where in the UI should this functionality live
How can this feature be discoverable and understandable for users
What are the snapping options required and how do they work

Things to consider

there is different snapping behaviour in the VSE, so different time editors can have different snapping functions. This needs to be clear to the user
In the graph editor and the dope sheet there is already a snapping menu, but that is for snapping the keys while moving them. How do we differentiate the two

Proposed Solution

The idea is to add an option to the way the snapping is performed, e.g. either to seconds or to keys (or another snap type)
2021-10-02 19-50-20.mp4

The snap type would be chosen in a dropdown menu

The subframe setting would be moved to a scene setting

## Problem When dragging the frame cursor around you often want to hit keyframes. Currently this is hard to do, especially when zoomed out. (also because you are not sure when you've hit the key) Frame snapping already exists, but it only snaps to seconds. This is activated with `CTRL` ## Design Question * Where in the UI should this functionality live * How can this feature be discoverable and understandable for users * What are the snapping options required and how do they work ## Things to consider * there is different snapping behaviour in the VSE, so different time editors can have different snapping functions. This needs to be clear to the user * In the graph editor and the dope sheet there is already a snapping menu, but that is for snapping the keys while moving them. How do we differentiate the two ## Proposed Solution The idea is to add an option to the way the snapping is performed, e.g. either to seconds or to keys (or another snap type) [2021-10-02 19-50-20.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10791653/2021-10-02_19-50-20.mp4) The snap type would be chosen in a dropdown menu ![snapping_menu.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11018466/snapping_menu.png) The subframe setting would be moved to a scene setting ![snapping_setting.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11018483/snapping_setting.png)

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Added subscribers: @ChrisLend, @iss, @Rockbard, @LucianoMunoz

Added subscriber: @Bassam

We've been talking about this for a while with @Bassam we feel that the snapping menu for the animation editors could use some rehashing,
Firstly make it more to the tune of the 3D viewport one:

where you can select several options to turn on and off (i'd personally use a checkbox instead because its more obious that you can select more than one option)

As you mention also ctrl should be the hotkey to activate it temporarily but also you can have the little magnet to turn it on and off all the time.

Also this being the current snap menu for the dopesheet:

I think it would need some cleaning up as most optioons seem rather useless to me or anyone i've talked to for that matter, should be up for discussion.

We've been talking about this for a while with @Bassam we feel that the snapping menu for the animation editors could use some rehashing, Firstly make it more to the tune of the 3D viewport one: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10792416/image.png) where you can select several options to turn on and off (i'd personally use a checkbox instead because its more obious that you can select more than one option) As you mention also ctrl should be the hotkey to activate it temporarily but also you can have the little magnet to turn it on and off all the time. Also this being the current snap menu for the dopesheet: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10792443/image.png) I think it would need some cleaning up as most optioons seem rather useless to me or anyone i've talked to for that matter, should be up for discussion.

The more options we have the more people could happily use Blender.

So let's add a coherent dropdown menu similar to that we have in a 3d view mode

Suggested options:

Keyframes
Markers
Seconds
Frames
NLA strips

The more options we have the more people could happily use Blender. So let's add a coherent dropdown menu similar to that we have in a 3d view mode ![Screenshot 2021-10-05 233237.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10792374/Screenshot_2021-10-05_233237.png) Suggested options: 1) Keyframes 2) Markers 3) Seconds 4) Frames 5) NLA strips

Added subscriber: @JasonSchleifer

Sometimes it's really helpful to snap to particular frame intervals as well.. for example, if I'm animating on 2's, I'd love to be able to snap to 2's as I drag.

In #91973#1231186, @JasonSchleifer wrote:
Sometimes it's really helpful to snap to particular frame intervals as well.. for example, if I'm animating on 2's, I'd love to be able to snap to 2's as I drag.

Love the idea of custom snapping interval. Although I would rarely use it, but it is a cool option to have.

> In #91973#1231186, @JasonSchleifer wrote: > Sometimes it's really helpful to snap to particular frame intervals as well.. for example, if I'm animating on 2's, I'd love to be able to snap to 2's as I drag. Love the idea of custom snapping interval. Although I would rarely use it, but it is a cool option to have.

yes, that'd be great, with a slider to chose every nth frame.

@LucianoMunoz just to clarify: there are 2 snapping concepts when it comes to snapping in the timeline editors

when moving keyframes around have them snap to certain positions
when setting the current frame, have it snap to certain things

there is some overlap between the two, but I'd argue having those two options separate would be good
Althought they could live in the same dropdown I guess

great ideas guys. snapping to every nth frame and to markers sounds super useful

@LucianoMunoz just to clarify: there are 2 snapping concepts when it comes to snapping in the timeline editors 1. when moving keyframes around have them snap to certain positions 2. when setting the current frame, have it snap to certain things there is some overlap between the two, but I'd argue having those two options separate would be good Althought they could live in the same dropdown I guess great ideas guys. snapping to every nth frame and to markers sounds super useful

Yes I agree !

i'd argue that snapping the playhead to each frame normally shouldnt be considered snapping and probably should live oustside this panel because no mater how much you want to turn on and off most of the options we've listed before is much more rare to snap/not snap to interger frames.

In #91973#1231196, @LucianoMunoz wrote:
i'd argue that snapping the playhead to each frame normally shouldnt be considered snapping and probably should live oustside this panel because no mater how much you want to turn on and off most of the options we've listed before is much more rare to snap/not snap to interger frames.

Oh, yeah snapping to each frame was really bad suggestion.
But having a slider similar to what we discussed earlier is would be nice. I personally love to animate on every 20 frame in my personal workflow.

> In #91973#1231196, @LucianoMunoz wrote: > i'd argue that snapping the playhead to each frame normally shouldnt be considered snapping and probably should live oustside this panel because no mater how much you want to turn on and off most of the options we've listed before is much more rare to snap/not snap to interger frames. Oh, yeah snapping to each frame was really bad suggestion. But having a slider similar to what we discussed earlier is would be nice. I personally love to animate on every 20 frame in my personal workflow.

In #91973#1231192, @ChrisLend wrote:
@LucianoMunoz just to clarify: there are 2 snapping concepts when it comes to snapping in the timeline editors

when moving keyframes around have them snap to certain positions

when setting the current frame, have it snap to certain things

there is some overlap between the two, but I'd argue having those two options separate would be good
Althought they could live in the same dropdown I guess

great ideas guys. snapping to every nth frame and to markers sounds super useful

I'd probably would love to see both options.
Something alike:

Snap:
Playhead
Keyframes

To:
Keyframes
Frames (every "X" frames)
Markers
NLA strips

Upd* i think the seconds option is too much. The frames interval slider will do.

> In #91973#1231192, @ChrisLend wrote: > @LucianoMunoz just to clarify: there are 2 snapping concepts when it comes to snapping in the timeline editors > > 1. when moving keyframes around have them snap to certain positions > 2. when setting the current frame, have it snap to certain things > > there is some overlap between the two, but I'd argue having those two options separate would be good > Althought they could live in the same dropdown I guess > > great ideas guys. snapping to every nth frame and to markers sounds super useful I'd probably would love to see both options. Something alike: Snap: Playhead Keyframes To: Keyframes Frames (every "X" frames) Markers NLA strips Upd* i think the seconds option is too much. The frames interval slider will do.

In #91973#1231192, @ChrisLend wrote:
@LucianoMunoz just to clarify: there are 2 snapping concepts when it comes to snapping in the timeline editors

when moving keyframes around have them snap to certain positions

when setting the current frame, have it snap to certain things

there is some overlap between the two, but I'd argue having those two options separate would be good
Althought they could live in the same dropdown I guess

This is how it works in VSE - normally snapping playhead to snap points is disabled, it has own checkbox in snapping options, or can be activated by pressing Ctrl while scrubbing. Otherwise scrubbing dense timeline is impossible.
Also unlike transform snapping, this is implemented in ANIM_OT_change_frame operator, so it really is 2 snapping systems, but having 2 magnet icons next to each other would be weird, so it's presented as one.

> In #91973#1231192, @ChrisLend wrote: > @LucianoMunoz just to clarify: there are 2 snapping concepts when it comes to snapping in the timeline editors > > 1. when moving keyframes around have them snap to certain positions > 2. when setting the current frame, have it snap to certain things > > there is some overlap between the two, but I'd argue having those two options separate would be good > Althought they could live in the same dropdown I guess This is how it works in VSE - normally snapping playhead to snap points is disabled, it has own checkbox in snapping options, or can be activated by pressing Ctrl while scrubbing. Otherwise scrubbing dense timeline is impossible. Also unlike transform snapping, this is implemented in `ANIM_OT_change_frame` operator, so it really is 2 snapping systems, but having 2 magnet icons next to each other would be weird, so it's presented as one.

Added subscriber: @OrestisKonstantinidis

In #91973#1231186, @JasonSchleifer wrote:
Sometimes it's really helpful to snap to particular frame intervals as well.. for example, if I'm animating on 2's, I'd love to be able to snap to 2's as I drag.

Hi Jason,
just to clarify, when animating on 2's, do you use 12fps or 24fps?

If the former, then it's the same as snapping on frames.

If it's the latter and you're working on 24fps, then how should the snapping work? Should it go from the beginning (e.g. snap on 1, 3, 5, 7 etc.), or should it go relative to the cursor (if you are on 2 then it would snap on 4, 6, 8, 10 etc)?

Thinking about it, I feel starting from the beginning would be the most intuitive.

> In #91973#1231186, @JasonSchleifer wrote: > Sometimes it's really helpful to snap to particular frame intervals as well.. for example, if I'm animating on 2's, I'd love to be able to snap to 2's as I drag. Hi Jason, just to clarify, when animating on 2's, do you use 12fps or 24fps? If the former, then it's the same as snapping on frames. If it's the latter and you're working on 24fps, then how should the snapping work? Should it go from the beginning (e.g. snap on 1, 3, 5, 7 etc.), or should it go relative to the cursor (if you are on 2 then it would snap on 4, 6, 8, 10 etc)? Thinking about it, I feel starting from the beginning would be the most intuitive.

In #91973#1231387, @OrestisKonstantinidis wrote:

In #91973#1231186, @JasonSchleifer wrote:
Sometimes it's really helpful to snap to particular frame intervals as well.. for example, if I'm animating on 2's, I'd love to be able to snap to 2's as I drag.

Hi Jason,
just to clarify, when animating on 2's, do you use 12fps or 24fps?

If the former, then it's the same as snapping on frames.

If it's the latter and you're working on 24fps, then how should the snapping work? Should it go from the beginning (e.g. snap on 1, 3, 5, 7 etc.), or should it go relative to the cursor (if you are on 2 then it would snap on 4, 6, 8, 10 etc)?

Thinking about it, I feel starting from the beginning would be the most intuitive.

That's a really good question. For me, it is the "Relative to the cursor" option.
I'm placing the keyframes and I want to place the next keyframe 20 frames later from it.

Although maybe it could be done with a simple Shift + Arrow shortcut and not bother with it. ****Upd I just noticed that jump to 10 frames ahead shortcut is gone. Strange, it was a really neat feature.

Or we could add two more options on top "Global" and "Relative"

> In #91973#1231387, @OrestisKonstantinidis wrote: >> In #91973#1231186, @JasonSchleifer wrote: >> Sometimes it's really helpful to snap to particular frame intervals as well.. for example, if I'm animating on 2's, I'd love to be able to snap to 2's as I drag. > > Hi Jason, > just to clarify, when animating on 2's, do you use 12fps or 24fps? > > If the former, then it's the same as snapping on frames. > > If it's the latter and you're working on 24fps, then how should the snapping work? Should it go from the beginning (e.g. snap on 1, 3, 5, 7 etc.), or should it go relative to the cursor (if you are on 2 then it would snap on 4, 6, 8, 10 etc)? > > Thinking about it, I feel starting from the beginning would be the most intuitive. That's a really good question. For me, it is the "Relative to the cursor" option. I'm placing the keyframes and I want to place the next keyframe 20 frames later from it. Although maybe it could be done with a simple Shift + Arrow shortcut and not bother with it. ****Upd I just noticed that jump to 10 frames ahead shortcut is gone. Strange, it was a really neat feature. Or we could add two more options on top "Global" and "Relative"

Added subscriber: @GeorgiaPacific

Here is a quick mockup of how I think this would look

There would be a new checkbox in the scene settings to allow subframes. As luciano mentioned this doesn't need to be a snapping setting
There would be a snapping menu with 2 duplicate entries to control keyframe and playhead snapping separately
I am not sure about the NLA setting since it will only work in a single context while there are not really keyframes in the NLA. A better option might be to call itEditor Datawhich includes NLA strips and Keyframes, or whatever the editor represents. similar to the snapping menu there will be menu elements that appear when the corresponding menu entry is selected

Here is a quick mockup of how I think this would look * There would be a new checkbox in the scene settings to allow subframes. As luciano mentioned this doesn't need to be a snapping setting ![snapping_setting.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11018114/snapping_setting.png) * There would be a snapping menu with 2 duplicate entries to control keyframe and playhead snapping separately **I am not sure about the NLA setting since it will only work in a single context while there are not really keyframes in the NLA. A better option might be to call it**Editor Data**which includes NLA strips and Keyframes, or whatever the editor represents.** similar to the snapping menu there will be menu elements that appear when the corresponding menu entry is selected ![snapping_menu.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11018181/snapping_menu.png)

I think I really like your solutions, not sure wether the allow subframes would go there exactly but the rest makes a ton of sense an feels very functional.
I wonde do we really need 3 decimals for frame snapping? i feel a lot of the times we get 3 decimals in blender where one or 2 would be more than enough... not even sure if there is control to chose this.

I think I really like your solutions, not sure wether the allow subframes would go there exactly but the rest makes a ton of sense an feels very functional. I wonde do we really need 3 decimals for frame snapping? i feel a lot of the times we get 3 decimals in blender where one or 2 would be more than enough... not even sure if there is control to chose this.

Agree on decimals.

For the snapping menu design. I like it it is really functional.
Let's try to sum all the elements that we can, to avoid the repetition, Here is my take on it:

Agree on decimals. For the snapping menu design. I like it it is really functional. Let's try to sum all the elements that we can, to avoid the repetition, Here is my take on it: ![snapping_menu v2.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11021144/snapping_menu_v2.png)

@dimitry are you proposing, that "playhead and keys" are like tabs?,
I find that Christoph's way even is there is repetition is much more clear and direct, even for inspectioning because you dont need to switch between them to telll what is snapping to what.

@dimitry are you proposing, that "playhead and keys" are like tabs?, I find that Christoph's way even is there is repetition is much more clear and direct, even for inspectioning because you dont need to switch between them to telll what is snapping to what.

Oh yeah, you are totally right. I missed that.

Added subscriber: @AndyCuccaro

Added subscriber: @dr.sybren

Added subscriber: @BassamKurdali

Hia folks, just a couple of other perhaps relevant tasks/discussions, [#89069 ]] ? It touches on similar areas and it might be nice to do a UI cleanup at the same time. Also [ https:*developer.blender.org/T83710 | #83710 has some analysis of snapping modes that miiiiight be relevant.

Hia folks, just a couple of other perhaps relevant tasks/discussions, [#89069 ]] ? It touches on similar areas and it might be nice to do a UI cleanup at the same time. Also [[ https:*developer.blender.org/T83710 | #83710 ](https:*developer.blender.org/T89069) has some analysis of snapping modes that miiiiight be relevant.

Added subscriber: @Kdaf

This comment was removed by @Kdaf

*This comment was removed by @Kdaf*

We talked with @ChrisLend and we thought a task I'm working on could be integrated to this menu.
Task :https://developer.blender.org/T92650 ( Playhead moving options )

So, I propose a slightly different mockup :

The menu could be splitted in two, with "Items snapping" and "Playhead Options".

Btw, I do not see the real interest of putting the snap frame in option. Actually, the items (keys, strips) and the playhead are snapped to the frames, right ?
If this become optional, when disabling snapping, the items and playhead will be totally floating. It looks weird in my opinion.

We talked with @ChrisLend and we thought a task I'm working on could be integrated to this menu. Task :https://developer.blender.org/T92650 ( Playhead moving options ) So, I propose a slightly different mockup : ![mockup_animation_editors.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11804173/mockup_animation_editors.png) The menu could be splitted in two, with "Items snapping" and "Playhead Options". Btw, I do not see the real interest of putting the snap frame in option. Actually, the items (keys, strips) and the playhead are snapped to the frames, right ? If this become optional, when disabling snapping, the items and playhead will be totally floating. It looks weird in my opinion.

Added subscriber: @SayantanChaudhuri

Guys, since Christoph is busy with his day job, could we handle this feature development to someone else?
It is been a while since the topic started. Thanks!

Guys, since Christoph is busy with his day job, could we handle this feature development to someone else? It is been a while since the topic started. Thanks!

Added subscriber: @mrbimax

Does the features of this concept already exist, or under development? I'd glad to work on implementing this.

In #91973#1417905, @mrbimax wrote:
Does the features of this concept already exist, or under development? I'd glad to work on implementing this.

Try to message people at https://blender.chat/channel/animation-module or @sastuvel on Twitter.

> In #91973#1417905, @mrbimax wrote: > Does the features of this concept already exist, or under development? I'd glad to work on implementing this. Try to message people at https://blender.chat/channel/animation-module or @sastuvel on Twitter.

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Design: More frame snapping options #91973

Problem

Design Question

Things to consider

Proposed Solution