EEVEE-Next #93220

New Issue

Clément Foucault · 2021-11-19T18:41:26+01:00

Clément Foucault commented

2021-11-19 18:41:26 +01:00

This is a list of all the tasks planned for the future of EEVEE's codebase.
Due to a change in requirements, this rewrite is planned for after the metal backend has landed in master.

The initial release of EEVEE-Next is currently planned for the 4.1 release. Additional features will be added throughout the lifetime of the 4 series.

Main features currently implemented:

Virtual Shadowmapping: Increases shadow resolution and maximum sharpness while keeping relatively low memory footprint.
Subsurface Scattering: New algorithm that eliminate light leaking between objects and supports per pixel radius.
High Light count support: Lights are now efficiently culled and there is virtually no limits to the maximum number of lights in a scene.
Motion Blur: Now supports shutter curve.
Grease Pencil Object support: ~~Grease pencil object are now treated as any other geometry and fully compatible with the shading pipeline.~~ (Full support has been delayed as it requires more design)
Shading: Arbitrary number of BSDFs are now supported without major performance impact. Raytracing and SSS is no more restricted to one BSDF node.
Thickness output: This is a new output which control the thickness for translucency, refraction and volume shader.
Renderpass: All passes are rendered at once and do not need multiple geometry passes (except cryptomatte).
Irradiance Cache: The baking has been totally rewritten and data is now stored inside the lightprobe objects which allows modifications after baking.

Motion Vector

Motion vectors support in the viewport.

Film

TAA reprojection.
Sample accumulation.
Reduced memory usage of weight buffers.

Camera

Port Depth Of Field.

Motion Blur

Shutter curve support for time steps.
Motion steps data.
- Mesh.
- Curves.

Shading

Bump Mapping support.
Shader to RGB support.
Vertex Displacement support
Single pass HiZ using compute shader.
#105868 Deferred Shading.

Light

Efficient Light culling
Arbitrary light count

Shadows

#104472 Virtual Shadow mapping
#111809 Shadow tracing

Render Passes

Render Passes
#99390 Cryptomatte
Transparent Pass
Remove Shadow Pass

Global Illumination

#105673 Screen Space Effects
#105643 Volume Probe
#105649 Cubemap Probe
#112966 Planar Capture
#114279 Disable deferred compilation lookdev world

Volumetric

#105672 Volume Rendering
#114062 Remove distant lighting

Performance

Shadow Rendering Improvements
Deferred Lighting Optimization
#112979 Horizon Based Global Illumination
Resolution Scaling

UI

Rename Lightprobe Types
Add presets to raytracing panel
#113971 Review Material options panel
Expose thickness output socket

Python API

#113976 Cleanup API

Extended target

D9792: [WIP] Eevee: Parallax Occlusion Mapping from Displacement Output
Panoramic camera support.
Depth Of Field for panoramic camera.
Grease Pencil Geometry support.
Add Refractive Material simplification option to transparent BSDF.

This is a list of all the tasks planned for the future of EEVEE's codebase. Due to a change in requirements, this rewrite is planned for after the metal backend has landed in master. The initial release of EEVEE-Next is currently planned for the 4.1 release. Additional features will be added throughout the lifetime of the 4 series. Main features currently implemented: - **Virtual Shadowmapping**: Increases shadow resolution and maximum sharpness while keeping relatively low memory footprint. - **Subsurface Scattering**: New algorithm that eliminate light leaking between objects and supports per pixel radius. - **High Light count support**: Lights are now efficiently culled and there is virtually no limits to the maximum number of lights in a scene. - **Motion Blur**: Now supports shutter curve. - **Grease Pencil Object support**: ~~Grease pencil object are now treated as any other geometry and fully compatible with the shading pipeline.~~ (Full support has been delayed as it requires more design) - **Shading**: Arbitrary number of BSDFs are now supported without major performance impact. Raytracing and SSS is no more restricted to one BSDF node. - **Thickness output**: This is a new output which control the thickness for translucency, refraction and volume shader. - **Renderpass**: All passes are rendered at once and do not need multiple geometry passes (except cryptomatte). - **Irradiance Cache**: The baking has been totally rewritten and data is now stored inside the lightprobe objects which allows modifications after baking. ### Motion Vector - [x] Motion vectors support in the viewport. ### Film - [x] TAA reprojection. - [x] Sample accumulation. - [x] Reduced memory usage of weight buffers. ### Camera - [x] Port Depth Of Field. ### Motion Blur - [x] Shutter curve support for time steps. - [x] Motion steps data. - [x] Mesh. - [x] Curves. ### Shading - [x] Bump Mapping support. - [x] Shader to RGB support. - [x] Vertex Displacement support - [x] Single pass HiZ using compute shader. - [x] #105868 Deferred Shading. ### Light - [x] Efficient Light culling - [x] Arbitrary light count ### Shadows - [x] #104472 Virtual Shadow mapping - [x] #111809 Shadow tracing ### Render Passes - [x] Render Passes - [x] #99390 Cryptomatte - [x] Transparent Pass - [ ] Remove Shadow Pass ### Global Illumination - [x] #105673 Screen Space Effects - [ ] #105643 Volume Probe - [ ] #105649 Cubemap Probe - [ ] #112966 Planar Capture - [x] #114279 Disable deferred compilation lookdev world ### Volumetric - [ ] #105672 Volume Rendering - [x] #114062 Remove distant lighting ### Performance - [ ] Shadow Rendering Improvements - [ ] Deferred Lighting Optimization - [ ] #112979 Horizon Based Global Illumination - [ ] Resolution Scaling ### UI - [ ] Rename Lightprobe Types - [ ] Add presets to raytracing panel - [x] #113971 Review Material options panel - [x] Expose thickness output socket ### Python API - [ ] #113976 Cleanup API ### Extended target - [D9792: [WIP] Eevee: Parallax Occlusion Mapping from Displacement Output](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D9792) - Panoramic camera support. - Depth Of Field for panoramic camera. - Grease Pencil Geometry support. - Add Refractive Material simplification option to transparent BSDF.

❤️ 18 🚀 10

Clément Foucault self-assigned this 2021-11-19 18:41:26 +01:00

Clément Foucault commented

2021-11-19 18:41:26 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Clément Foucault commented

2021-11-19 18:41:26 +01:00

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Ludvik Koutny commented

2021-11-20 13:23:38 +01:00

Is this: https://developer.blender.org/T68478 really missing from the list or is it part of some other feature in the list?

I am asking because lack of almost any feature in this list is nowhere near as big of a pain point as the fact currently, when using any HDRI lighting, users have to keep two separate lighting setups for Eevee and Cycles, and also spend substantial amount of time creating Eevee HDRI light ligth based on rough calibration by the Cycles reference. Then, every time when switching between Eevee and Cycles, the user has to either swap the light rigs, or use the less physically based (with scene lights in place of HDRI hotspots) Eevee light right also with Cycles.

Furthermore, majority of users do not even posses the skill and knowledge to pull off an Eevee HDRI light rig that's at least remotely closer to correct HDRI illumination. Aside from getting the light intensities, colors and radii right, one also has to do numerous hacks with ray switching in world shader to ensure that directly visible environment is unclamped for tone mapping and bloom to work correctly, while at the same time making sure that diffuse contribution of the world shader is clamped so that the light is not doubled.

Solving this issue would significantly improve both Eevee workflow as well as image quality produced by users to average skill level, since diffuse illumination from HDRIs would not longer be extremely incorrect.

Unless the Ray Tracing section of this list includes diffuse illumination from the world shader with HDRI texture support, then even if every single feature on this list would be completed, most users would still produce images of significantly degraded quality unless they posses the quite advanced knowledge to work around it described above.

Is this: https://developer.blender.org/T68478 really missing from the list or is it part of some other feature in the list? I am asking because lack of almost any feature in this list is nowhere near as big of a pain point as the fact currently, when using any HDRI lighting, users have to keep two separate lighting setups for Eevee and Cycles, and also spend substantial amount of time creating Eevee HDRI light ligth based on rough calibration by the Cycles reference. Then, every time when switching between Eevee and Cycles, the user has to either swap the light rigs, or use the less physically based (with scene lights in place of HDRI hotspots) Eevee light right also with Cycles. Furthermore, majority of users do not even posses the skill and knowledge to pull off an Eevee HDRI light rig that's at least remotely closer to correct HDRI illumination. Aside from getting the light intensities, colors and radii right, one also has to do numerous hacks with ray switching in world shader to ensure that directly visible environment is unclamped for tone mapping and bloom to work correctly, while at the same time making sure that diffuse contribution of the world shader is clamped so that the light is not doubled. Solving this issue would significantly improve both Eevee workflow as well as image quality produced by users to average skill level, since diffuse illumination from HDRIs would not longer be extremely incorrect. Unless the Ray Tracing section of this list includes diffuse illumination from the world shader with HDRI texture support, then even if every single feature on this list would be completed, most users would still produce images of significantly degraded quality unless they posses the quite advanced knowledge to work around it described above.

Clément Foucault commented

2021-11-20 13:44:29 +01:00

@Rawalanche I will add it to the list of features that may be tackled after the rewrite. I would not consider it a blocker since it is a new feature and is not fundamentally a missing part of the pipeline.

The Raytracing changes does improve this use case but still introduce too much noise. So I think sun light extraction is still a needed feature.

@Rawalanche I will add it to the list of features that may be tackled after the rewrite. I would not consider it a blocker since it is a new feature and is not fundamentally a missing part of the pipeline. The Raytracing changes does improve this use case but still introduce too much noise. So I think sun light extraction is still a needed feature.

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Moderation note This is not the proper place for user feedback or feature requests. Please check this for appropriate places: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

**Moderation note** This is not the proper place for user feedback or feature requests. Please check this for appropriate places: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

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Again, please don't use this task for feature requests or user questions! There are other channels for this: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

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Please keep this task on topic! This task is for developers and should focus on code design and review. Please refrain from further user questions, including asking for a build, asking for a merge ETA, examples, comparison with other software and so on... It is also too early for bug reports. Thank you for your understanding.

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Thomas Dinges commented

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Like any other online platform, there are rules here as well. I explained this several times before. One again:
Please keep this task on topic! This task is for developers and should focus on code design and review. Please refrain from further user questions, including asking for a build, asking for a merge ETA, examples, comparison with other software and so on... It is also too early for bug reports. Thank you for your understanding.

Or in more simple words: If you are not a developer, working on the EEVEE rewrite, this is NOT the right place for comments.

Please help to keep this platform clean for developers and use places like blenderartists for user discussions. Thanks.

Like any other online platform, there are rules here as well. I explained this several times before. One again: `Please keep this task on topic! This task is for developers and should focus on code design and review. Please refrain from further user questions, including asking for a build, asking for a merge ETA, examples, comparison with other software and so on... It is also too early for bug reports. Thank you for your understanding.` Or in more simple words: If you are not a developer, working on the EEVEE rewrite, this is NOT the right place for comments. Please help to keep this platform clean for developers and use places like blenderartists for user discussions. Thanks.

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Clément Foucault commented

2022-03-22 01:05:28 +01:00

An update is long overdue.

This task has accumulated many delay due to multiple things.

The major reason is that during the middle of the rewrite, I was facing major technical difficulty caused by limitations from our GL 3.3 requirement. So at some point I took the decision to make use of more modern techniques and drop support from older hardware. We are aiming to require GL 4.3 capable hardware in the near future. However this means that we cannot rely on the GL implementation on Apple computers. So I had to sidetrack to another project to make sure that shaders will be compatible with Vulkan and Metal (D13360).

Comming back to the rewrite I had to redo many things a second time to use the more modern way to do things. This was needed for performance reasons.

But with all the added delay and without much real testing possible (because of feature incompleteness and plethora of TODOs) it was starting to feel like a never ending project. So we decided to start pushing the developpement into master in an attempt to guide the developpement using feedback from the Blender Studio. The new implementation is hidden under a new experimental option (59f53f5802). My goal with this is to merge the eevee-rewrite branch into master bit by bit making sure each feature is polished. The GPU module changes needed are already in master.

I'll resume my weekly reports on my [wiki section ]] for the week to week updates. For important milestones and feedback, I created [ https:*devtalk.blender.org/t/eevee-next/23570 | this topic on devtalk .

I would like to thank everyone who showed interest in this task.

An update is long overdue. This task has accumulated many delay due to multiple things. The major reason is that during the middle of the rewrite, I was facing major technical difficulty caused by limitations from our GL 3.3 requirement. So at some point I took the decision to make use of more modern techniques and drop support from older hardware. We are aiming to require GL 4.3 capable hardware in the near future. However this means that we cannot rely on the GL implementation on Apple computers. So I had to sidetrack to another project to make sure that shaders will be compatible with Vulkan and Metal ([D13360](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D13360)). Comming back to the rewrite I had to redo many things a second time to use the more modern way to do things. This was needed for performance reasons. But with all the added delay and without much real testing possible (because of feature incompleteness and plethora of TODOs) it was starting to feel like a never ending project. So we decided to start pushing the developpement into `master` in an attempt to guide the developpement using feedback from the Blender Studio. The new implementation is hidden under a new experimental option (59f53f5802). My goal with this is to merge the `eevee-rewrite` branch into master bit by bit making sure each feature is polished. The GPU module changes needed are already in master. I'll resume my weekly reports on my [wiki section ]] for the week to week updates. For important milestones and feedback, I created [[ https:*devtalk.blender.org/t/eevee-next/23570 | this topic on devtalk ](https:*wiki.blender.org/wiki/User:Hypersomniac#Weekly_Reports). I would like to thank everyone who showed interest in this task.

Alaska commented

2022-03-22 03:39:57 +01:00

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Ludvik Koutny commented

2022-03-22 08:36:52 +01:00

In #93220#1327240, @fclem wrote:
The major reason is that during the middle of the rewrite, I was facing major technical difficulty caused by limitations from our GL 3.3 requirement. So at some point I took the decision to make use of more modern techniques and drop support from older hardware. We are aiming to require GL 4.3 capable hardware in the near future. However this means that we cannot rely on the GL implementation on Apple computers. So I had to sidetrack to another project to make sure that shaders will be compatible with Vulkan and Metal (D13360).

Possibly a dumb question, but if Apple support means having to sidetrack to support Vulkan and Metal, why not just use Vulkan as the base for all platforms instead of GL 4.3? Or did I misunderstand something?

> In #93220#1327240, @fclem wrote: > The major reason is that during the middle of the rewrite, I was facing major technical difficulty caused by limitations from our GL 3.3 requirement. So at some point I took the decision to make use of more modern techniques and drop support from older hardware. We are aiming to require GL 4.3 capable hardware in the near future. However this means that we cannot rely on the GL implementation on Apple computers. So I had to sidetrack to another project to make sure that shaders will be compatible with Vulkan and Metal ([D13360](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D13360)). Possibly a dumb question, but if Apple support means having to sidetrack to support Vulkan and Metal, why not just use Vulkan as the base for all platforms instead of GL 4.3? Or did I misunderstand something?

Jeroen Bakker commented

2022-03-22 09:49:37 +01:00

@Rawalanche having shader syntax compatible with vulkan is an important step into this direction. Having a production ready fully working vulkan backend takes (a lot) more time. Bumping the version to OpenGL 4.3 would make it easier to transition to vulkan.

Ludvik Koutny commented

2022-03-22 09:52:17 +01:00

In #93220#1327526, @Jeroen-Bakker wrote:
@Rawalanche having shader syntax compatible with vulkan is an important step into this direction. Having a production ready fully working vulkan backend takes (a lot) more time. Bumping the version to OpenGL 4.3 would make it easier to transition to vulkan.

I see. I did not know upgrading GL version is/could be just intermediate step on the road to Vulkan backend. That's why I asked :)

> In #93220#1327526, @Jeroen-Bakker wrote: > @Rawalanche having shader syntax compatible with vulkan is an important step into this direction. Having a production ready fully working vulkan backend takes (a lot) more time. Bumping the version to OpenGL 4.3 would make it easier to transition to vulkan. I see. I did not know upgrading GL version is/could be just intermediate step on the road to Vulkan backend. That's why I asked :)

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Yomom commented

2022-03-22 19:21:56 +01:00

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Thank you so much Clement, this was all I wanted! I wish you the best of luck with the project, I know nothing about program development but an eevee rewrite sounds like a lot of work. Also sorry Thomas for all the trouble, just wanted to thank Clement :D

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Clément Foucault added this to the EEVEE & Viewport project 2023-02-08 15:03:33 +01:00

Clément Foucault changed title from ~~EEVEE rewrite~~ to EEVEE-Next

2023-02-08 15:03:49 +01:00

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2023-02-08 21:18:57 +01:00

EEVEE-Next: Virtual Shadow Map initial implementation

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EEVEE-Next: Virtual Shadow Map initial implementation

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Sam commented

2023-06-27 18:59:30 +02:00

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Hey, sorry to bother but I thought this was the right place to ask: is Light Linking planned to release with Eevee Next, too? I have searched for it on the web but I haven't found any answer, thus my question. Thanks!

👍 1

Clément Foucault commented

2023-06-28 10:40:04 +02:00

@jimix85 No, light linking isn't planned to be implemented in EEVEE-Next first release and isn't listed here. It might be implemented at some point but I can't say when. But it is already implemented for Cycles and planned for the 4.0 release.

I deleted @dodo-2 's comment to avoid confusion.

Also these general questions are more suited toward https://devtalk.blender.org/ or https://blender.chat/ . This is a coordination task.

@jimix85 No, light linking isn't planned to be implemented in EEVEE-Next first release and isn't listed here. It might be implemented at some point but I can't say when. But it is already implemented for Cycles and planned for the 4.0 release. I deleted @dodo-2 's comment to avoid confusion. Also these general questions are more suited toward https://devtalk.blender.org/ or https://blender.chat/ . This is a coordination task.

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Germano Cavalcante referenced this issue

2023-10-10 22:06:51 +02:00

EEVEE Next's Displacement is different from Cycles #113499

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2023-10-11 20:38:38 +02:00

EEVEE-Next: Move out of experimental options

Mindinsomnia commented

2023-10-30 02:40:10 +01:00

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Are there any plans to expose a setting to choose the number of screen space ray samples per pixel? Could help with removing noise from the SSGI result in situations where it's very noisy but is the only thing which is noisy in the render, to avoid increasing the sample count for the entire render. Could offer faster render times in such situations.

Similarly, is there some kind of interval value for the radius of "spatial reuse"? And is this something we could potentially adjust as well?

Are there any plans to expose a setting to choose the number of screen space ray samples per pixel? Could help with removing noise from the SSGI result in situations where it's very noisy but is the only thing which is noisy in the render, to avoid increasing the sample count for the entire render. Could offer faster render times in such situations. Similarly, is there some kind of interval value for the radius of "spatial reuse"? And is this something we could potentially adjust as well?

Mohammad Javad - Ehsan (last name) commented

2023-11-07 11:27:26 +01:00

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I have noticed a regression from the legacy EEVEE, and some other problems related to the implementation, not bugs.

VSM versus the previous CSM+Jitter:
VSM, aside from the alpha-state-related bugs, has a lack of necessary features such as:

The jittering approach used in legacy EEVEE effectively has infinite layers of shadow casters calculated, as for each random point on the light source, it re-calculates the shadow map. On the other hand, EEVEE next's VSM lacks multi-layer shadow casters, leading to light leaks with too soft light sources.
An example here:
Cycles for reference:

EEVEE Next:

EEVEE Legacy:

As can be seen, there is a light leakage in the shadow of the pot.
The examples above also show another problem, which is related to the type of filter used for the shadows. I didn't look at the code, but it seems like a Gaussian kernel weight rather than a poisson disk shape - which is the physically correct shape for a light source like the sun and most other light sources. Also, the filtered results appear to be blended with the unfiltered results, leaving an unnatural penumbra and a lot of jaggies in some scenes.

The Hi-Z implementation seems to use the mipmaps of the back buffer to reduce performance impact in rough reflections depending on the ray length. While it helps a lot with rough reflections and GI, it doesn't make sense to use it in mirror-like and almost-mirror-like surfaces.
The example here shows what I'm talking about:

This is with precision set to 1.0.

This one is with precision set to 0.85.
The lower the precision goes, the faster it looks blocky when the ray length increases.

3- The SSRT implementation can have a better temporal accumulation and sampling. It never converges to an acceptable amount of noise:

The approach used to remove ghosting is too simple for such a noisy input. Using a 33 box filter for min-max or variance clamping always leads to severe energy loss, almost rendering the SSGI useless. Here's a comparison of TA on/off:
Off:

On:

I'd suggest using a larger kernel and a better clipping/blending approach for history. My preferences are a 77 kernel and an intersection with trivariate Gaussian ellipsoid instead of AABB (if AABB is the current approach), it has a very low energy loss in my experience and is also better at removing ghosting.
The bilateral filter doesn't seem to be really bilateral! but just a simple Gaussian blur.
Why the user has to enable spatial reuse to be able to use temporal accumulation? And why do they have to enable temporal accumulation to be able to enable the blur?

Btw, I can help with the SSGI denoiser if the team agrees that it needs improvements. I don't like to do something with 0 hope for it getting merged.

I have noticed a regression from the legacy EEVEE, and some other problems related to the implementation, not bugs. 1. **VSM versus the previous CSM+Jitter:** VSM, aside from the alpha-state-related bugs, has a lack of necessary features such as: - The jittering approach used in legacy EEVEE effectively has infinite layers of shadow casters calculated, as for each random point on the light source, it re-calculates the shadow map. On the other hand, EEVEE next's VSM lacks multi-layer shadow casters, leading to light leaks with too soft light sources. An example here: Cycles for reference: ![image](/attachments/c3e59c01-874a-4952-8eab-2fa823d0065e) EEVEE Next: ![image](/attachments/5889dce9-97b6-4a51-91d4-24a86b74e7f8) EEVEE Legacy: ![image](/attachments/dcf5408f-1477-4ecb-b893-fea47b200174) As can be seen, there is a light leakage in the shadow of the pot. - The examples above also show another problem, which is related to the type of filter used for the shadows. I didn't look at the code, but it seems like a Gaussian kernel weight rather than a poisson disk shape - which is the physically correct shape for a light source like the sun and most other light sources. Also, the filtered results appear to be blended with the unfiltered results, leaving an unnatural penumbra and a lot of jaggies in some scenes. 2. The Hi-Z implementation seems to use the mipmaps of the back buffer to reduce performance impact in rough reflections depending on the ray length. While it helps a lot with rough reflections and GI, it doesn't make sense to use it in mirror-like and almost-mirror-like surfaces. The example here shows what I'm talking about: ![image](/attachments/bc3df9d7-d74d-4b76-a347-d31061cdb80b) This is with precision set to 1.0. ![image](/attachments/2df1f995-8e05-4079-bf26-6cdd2af4590a) This one is with precision set to 0.85. The lower the precision goes, the faster it looks blocky when the ray length increases. 3- The SSRT implementation can have a better temporal accumulation and sampling. It never converges to an acceptable amount of noise: - The approach used to remove ghosting is too simple for such a noisy input. Using a 3*3 box filter for min-max or variance clamping always leads to severe energy loss, almost rendering the SSGI useless. Here's a comparison of TA on/off: Off: ![image](/attachments/732db28f-d274-4019-9fe2-ab7d32c6b91b) On: ![image](/attachments/d07ab71e-aa29-4b38-ae05-1e19c896f811) I'd suggest using a larger kernel and a better clipping/blending approach for history. My preferences are a 7*7 kernel and an intersection with trivariate Gaussian ellipsoid instead of AABB (if AABB is the current approach), it has a very low energy loss in my experience and is also better at removing ghosting. - The bilateral filter doesn't seem to be really bilateral! but just a simple Gaussian blur. - Why the user **has** to enable spatial reuse to be able to use temporal accumulation? And why do they *have* to enable temporal accumulation to be able to enable the blur? Btw, I can help with the SSGI denoiser if the team agrees that it needs improvements. I don't like to do something with 0 hope for it getting merged.

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