UV: Add "Invert Pins" to the menu in the uv editor #109187

Chris Blackbourn · 2023-06-21T06:01:54+02:00

Chris Blackbourn commented

2023-06-21 06:01:54 +02:00

Thanks Robert Rioux for the suggestion.

Chris Blackbourn added 1 commit 2023-06-21 06:02:00 +02:00

a10877a14f UV: Add "Invert Pins" to the menu in the uv editor

Thanks Robert Rioux for the suggestion.

Chris Blackbourn requested review from Campbell Barton 2023-06-21 06:02:17 +02:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2023-06-21 12:10:08 +02:00

Please explain why this is useful.

Robert Rioux commented

2023-06-21 13:31:36 +02:00

First-time contributor

It 's actually quite useful. Just like in modeling, sometimes it's faster/easier to select what you don't want and invert it.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2023-06-21 13:35:52 +02:00

I guess this is useful in the context of packing, where someone might pin all the vertices in an islands to lock it? And not so much in the context of the original purpose of pinning a handful of vertices in a UV island to control its shape. Because there inverting the pins doesn't seem useful.

Robert Rioux commented

2023-06-21 13:39:26 +02:00

First-time contributor

No, actually if you pin something you can still move them around, which doesn't make more sent to me. If it's pinned, it's pinned for everything. I'm really talking about smoothing and unfolding. There are situations where it's faster/easier to select what you don't want and invert it. I can post an example if needed

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2023-06-21 13:47:38 +02:00

Pins are meant to lock things into place for unwrapping and packing, but not for user edits. That's the purpose, to give some user control over what the automated algorithms are doing.

I didn't fully understand your reply, it sounds like you are thinking of pinning as a method to lock vertices from user editing?

Pins are meant to lock things into place for unwrapping and packing, but not for user edits. That's the purpose, to give some user control over what the automated algorithms are doing. I didn't fully understand your reply, it sounds like you are thinking of pinning as a method to lock vertices from user editing?

Robert Rioux commented

2023-06-21 13:53:30 +02:00

First-time contributor

For me, pinning is for both. When I pin something, it's because I don't want it to move in any situations in the UV editor.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2023-06-21 13:55:57 +02:00

But that's not how pinning actually works, so the motivation for this PR makes no sense then unless pinning behavior is changed as well?

Robert Rioux commented

2023-06-21 14:01:53 +02:00

First-time contributor

You mean, this in not how pinning works "in Blender" ;-) But it is in another software that I won't name. Still, the original post is not about if UVs can be moved or not once pinned but about inverting the selection, which is very useful and shouldn't be hard to implement. I will try to make an example

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2023-06-21 14:06:56 +02:00

I understand that proposing a(separate) feature to lock vertices can be useful, and that inverting selection and locking can be useful. But it's not so obvious why inverting pinning is useful.

Robert Rioux commented

2023-06-21 14:36:04 +02:00

First-time contributor

You select the nose and invert the selection because it's faster this way, but inverse will select ALL the UVs in the UV editor. Or, you select the nose, pin it, invert the pin but it only affects the island itself. Basically, many many times, it's easier to select the area that you want to work on than the opposite. Hence the use of invert pin. One thing that could also be very useful is unpin all so that you don't have to select them first.

Screen Shot 2023-06-21 at 8.12.27 AM.jpg

5.7 MiB

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2023-06-21 14:45:23 +02:00

Ok, I can see how this can be useful to re-unwrap some smaller part of a UV island.

Or, you select the nose, pin it, invert the pin but it only affects the island itself.

To be clear, this is missing a step to select the whole islands before inverting the pin. Because otherwise it will unpin just the nose again.

Ok, I can see how this can be useful to re-unwrap some smaller part of a UV island. > Or, you select the nose, pin it, invert the pin but it only affects the island itself. To be clear, this is missing a step to select the whole islands before inverting the pin. Because otherwise it will unpin just the nose again.

Robert Rioux commented

2023-06-21 15:04:10 +02:00

First-time contributor

Actually, when I think about it, I could juste select the entire island and deselect the part I want to modify, then pin... Ok, so invert pin may not be necessary. But unpin all would be cool

Chris Blackbourn commented

2023-06-22 00:26:11 +02:00

Pins are meant to lock things into place for unwrapping and packing, but not for user edits. That's the purpose, to give some user control over what the automated algorithms are doing.

I didn't fully understand your reply, it sounds like you are thinking of pinning as a method to lock vertices from user editing?

I always interpreted "pin" as locking UVs to a pin, and then when the user does a "move" operation, they are moving the pin, and then the underlying UV follows the pin.

That's the current behavior for the Relax and Pinch Sculpt Tools.

For the "Grab" tool, because it has a fall off, I was going to implement a nice mode where the user can disable moving pins, and then both the user's brush and the pins will both have a falloff giving a nice smooth gradient around the pinned UVs.

> Pins are meant to lock things into place for unwrapping and packing, but not for user edits. That's the purpose, to give some user control over what the automated algorithms are doing. > > I didn't fully understand your reply, it sounds like you are thinking of pinning as a method to lock vertices from user editing? I always interpreted "pin" as locking UVs to a pin, and then when the user does a "move" operation, they are moving the pin, and then the underlying UV follows the pin. That's the current behavior for the Relax and Pinch Sculpt Tools. For the "Grab" tool, because it has a fall off, I was going to implement a nice mode where the user can disable moving pins, and then both the user's brush *and* the pins will both have a falloff giving a nice smooth gradient around the pinned UVs.

Chris Blackbourn commented

2023-06-29 08:19:55 +02:00

Where are we at with this one? Is it okay to merge? Or do we need more discussion?

Robert Rioux commented

2023-06-29 14:41:08 +02:00

First-time contributor

I would put it at the lowest priority. It could be useful but there are more urgent things to fixed. My two cents.

Chris Blackbourn commented

2023-06-30 01:48:28 +02:00

Well this is a pull-request, the work has already been done. The question is do we want to merge or not?

Brecht Van Lommel approved these changes 2023-07-03 12:52:52 +02:00

Brecht Van Lommel left a comment

I don't think this is particularly useful, but also have no real objection to it.

Chris Blackbourn merged commit 4f6ce68500 into main

2023-07-04 02:46:32 +02:00

Chris Blackbourn deleted branch uv-invert-pinned

2023-07-04 02:46:34 +02:00

Chris Blackbourn referenced this issue from a commit

2023-07-04 02:46:34 +02:00

UV: Add "Invert Pins" to the menu in the uv editor

Christoph Lendenfeld referenced this issue from a commit

2023-07-06 10:14:59 +02:00

UV: Add "Invert Pins" to the menu in the uv editor

Dalai Felinto commented

2023-07-06 15:59:52 +02:00

For the records/future PRs:

The final commit still showed no explanation of the justification of the feature. No one should be expected to go over a patch discussion to understand why something new was added, or how it works. While the patch description AND the commit log should contain this information.
Having a PR is no reason for something to get merged. If its usefulness is speculative, I would suggest even reverting it to be honest. The less options we have, the simpler it is for artists. You can also check with other module members (e.g., @DanielBystedt) on that.

For the records/future PRs: 1. The final commit still showed no explanation of the justification of the feature. No one should be expected to go over a patch discussion to understand why something new was added, or how it works. While the patch description AND the commit log should contain this information. 2. Having a PR is no reason for something to get merged. If its usefulness is speculative, I would suggest even reverting it to be honest. The less options we have, the simpler it is for artists. You can also check with other module members (e.g., @DanielBystedt) on that.

Chris Blackbourn commented

2023-07-07 00:41:59 +02:00

I think Brecht was just playing "Devil's Advocate" earlier. Let's try again:

Pins were originally added to guide the unwrap operators, but have since expanded in scope:

During live unwrap, any island which contains a pin is not involved in packing.
In the UV Sculpt tools, Grab and Relax treat pinned vertices differently from unpinned.
UV > Align > Straighten tools use pinning information
When determining if a layout is "facing up" or "facing down", pinned islands are considered before unpinned islands.
Select Similar > Pinned now exists.
Pins can be used in arbitrary ways in user scripts.

And most recently:

Pinned islands can be treated differently in the UV Packer.

Are pins useful? Yeah, definitely. They do a lot more than just guide the unwrap process, and they'll continue to find more uses in the future, e.g. in proportional fall off, and in the stitch tools too.

Now lets look at the interaction between selected vertices and the existing pins. There are two boolean values, and there are precisely three boolean expressions:

pin = pin OR select ( Menu > UV > Pin )
pin = pin AND select ( Menu > UV > Unpin )
pin = pin XOR select ( Menu > UV > Invert )

That's all of the boolean expressions. There's only three of them. This PR completes the set of boolean expressions by adding the missing one. It's the same reason we have Select > All, Select > None and Select > Invert.

p.s. I haven't done the math, but I suspect it's not possible to implement "pin = pin XOR select" using only "OR" and "AND" because we don't have "NOT pin".

I think Brecht was just playing "Devil's Advocate" earlier. Let's try again: Pins were originally added to guide the unwrap operators, but have since expanded in scope: * During live unwrap, any island which contains a pin is not involved in packing. * In the UV Sculpt tools, Grab and Relax treat pinned vertices differently from unpinned. * UV > Align > Straighten tools use pinning information * When determining if a layout is "facing up" or "facing down", pinned islands are considered before unpinned islands. * Select Similar > Pinned now exists. * Pins can be used in arbitrary ways in user scripts. And most recently: * Pinned islands can be treated differently in the UV Packer. Are pins useful? Yeah, definitely. They do a lot more than just guide the unwrap process, and they'll continue to find more uses in the future, e.g. in proportional fall off, and in the stitch tools too. Now lets look at the interaction between selected vertices and the existing pins. There are two boolean values, and there are precisely three boolean expressions: * pin = pin OR select ( Menu > UV > Pin ) * pin = pin AND select ( Menu > UV > Unpin ) * pin = pin XOR select ( Menu > UV > Invert ) That's all of the boolean expressions. There's only three of them. This PR completes the set of boolean expressions by adding the missing one. It's the same reason we have Select > All, Select > None and Select > Invert. p.s. I haven't done the math, but I suspect it's not possible to implement "pin = pin XOR select" using only "OR" and "AND" because we don't have "NOT pin".

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UV: Add "Invert Pins" to the menu in the uv editor #109187