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Add Floored Modulo to All Implementations of The Math Node. #110728

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Jacques Lucke merged 7 commits from Hoshinova/blender:add-floored-modulo into main 2023-08-08 12:13:08 +02:00
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Hoshinova commented 2023-08-02 20:24:58 +02:00
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Both the Math node and the Vector Math currently only explicitly support modulo using truncated division which is oftentimes not the type of modulo desired as it behaves differently for negative numbers and positive numbers.

Floored Modulo can be created by either using the Wrap operation or a combination of multiple Math nodes.
However both methods obfuscate the actual intend of the artist and the math operation that is actually used.

This PR adds modulo using floored division to the scalar Math node, explicitly stating the intended math operation and renames the already existing "Modulo" operation to "Truncated Modulo" to avoid confusion.

Comparison:
Left is Truncated Modulo. Right is FLoored Modulo.
Modulo_Differences.png

Both the `Math` node and the `Vector Math` currently only explicitly support [modulo using truncated division](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulo) which is oftentimes not the type of modulo desired as it behaves differently for negative numbers and positive numbers. Floored Modulo can be created by either using the `Wrap` operation or a combination of multiple `Math` nodes. However both methods obfuscate the actual intend of the artist and the math operation that is actually used. This PR adds modulo using floored division to the scalar `Math` node, explicitly stating the intended math operation and renames the already existing `"Modulo"` operation to `"Truncated Modulo"` to avoid confusion. Comparison: Left is Truncated Modulo. Right is FLoored Modulo. ![Modulo_Differences.png](/attachments/89952b80-36f7-44f7-9c69-88598c0df420)
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Hoshinova added 1 commit 2023-08-02 20:25:11 +02:00
Hoshinova requested review from Brecht Van Lommel 2023-08-02 20:26:15 +02:00
Hoshinova requested review from Jacques Lucke 2023-08-02 20:26:15 +02:00
Hoshinova requested review from Omar Emara 2023-08-02 20:26:16 +02:00
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-02 20:30:06 +02:00
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This is mainly just the scalar Math node right now, since I still haven't decided how exactly to go about the Vector Math node https://devtalk.blender.org/t/adding-the-missing-vector-math-node-operations/30541

This is mainly just the scalar `Math` node right now, since I still haven't decided how exactly to go about the `Vector Math` node https://devtalk.blender.org/t/adding-the-missing-vector-math-node-operations/30541
Iliya Katushenock added this to the Nodes & Physics project 2023-08-02 20:31:37 +02:00
Hoshinova reviewed 2023-08-02 21:40:36 +02:00
source/blender/nodes/texture/nodes/node_texture_math.cc Outdated
@ -166,3 +166,3 @@
}
case NODE_MATH_MODULO: {
case NODE_MATH_TRUNCATED_MODULO: {
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-02 21:40:36 +02:00
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What editor does this file belong to? The old texture system doesn't seem to have a "math" texture.

What editor does this file belong to? The old texture system doesn't seem to have a "math" texture.
Hoshinova marked this conversation as resolved
Hoshinova reviewed 2023-08-02 21:43:32 +02:00
intern/cycles/kernel/osl/shaders/node_math.h
@ -17,3 +17,3 @@
float safe_modulo(float a, float b)
float safe_truncated_modulo(float a, float b)
{
return (b != 0.0) ? fmod(a, b) : 0.0;
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-02 21:43:32 +02:00
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fmod() here works correctly on the CPU and non OSL GPU but always outputs 0.0 when using GPU OptiX OSL (It works correctly in main though).
I looked into it but couldn't find the issue.
@brecht Do you have an idea what might cause this?

`fmod()` here works correctly on the CPU and non OSL GPU but always outputs 0.0 when using GPU OptiX OSL (It works correctly in `main` though). I looked into it but couldn't find the issue. @brecht Do you have an idea what might cause this?
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-03 19:44:22 +02:00
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So I found out that changing the name back to safe_modulo solves the issue for some reason.

So I found out that changing the name back to `safe_modulo` solves the issue for some reason.
Omar Emara requested changes 2023-08-03 08:54:39 +02:00
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I think having floored modulo can make things easier for artists, so it seems like a good addition.

This patch needlessly breaks backward compatibility and the python API. Because you shifted the integer IDs of the operation enums and changed the RNA enum identifier of the existing modulo operation. So just leave existing operations and add a new operation for the floored modulo.

I think having floored modulo can make things easier for artists, so it seems like a good addition. This patch needlessly breaks backward compatibility and the python API. Because you shifted the integer IDs of the operation enums and changed the RNA enum identifier of the existing modulo operation. So just leave existing operations and add a new operation for the floored modulo.
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-03 12:03:29 +02:00
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@OmarEmaraDev The UI name and the operation description aren't part of any API right? I think having "Truncated Modulo" and "Floored Modulo" would be better than just "Modulo" and "Floored Modulo".

Should I also leave the other non API things like function names unchanged?

@OmarEmaraDev The UI name and the operation description aren't part of any API right? I think having "Truncated Modulo" and "Floored Modulo" would be better than just "Modulo" and "Floored Modulo". Should I also leave the other non API things like function names unchanged?
Omar Emara commented 2023-08-03 13:18:56 +02:00
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Yes, you can safely change those, and you may also leave the other non API things unchanged.

Yes, you can safely change those, and you may also leave the other non API things unchanged.
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-03 13:57:14 +02:00
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Left is Truncated Modulo. Right is FLoored Modulo.
Modulo_Differences.png

Left is Truncated Modulo. Right is FLoored Modulo. ![Modulo_Differences.png](/attachments/89952b80-36f7-44f7-9c69-88598c0df420)
Modulo_Differences.png
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Hoshinova added 1 commit 2023-08-03 14:18:02 +02:00
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-03 14:20:34 +02:00
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@OmarEmaraDev I rolled back the Truncated Modulo changes, except for the UI part. Now it's pretty much only adding Floored Modulo.

@OmarEmaraDev I rolled back the Truncated Modulo changes, except for the UI part. Now it's pretty much only adding Floored Modulo.
Hoshinova added 1 commit 2023-08-03 14:22:18 +02:00
Hoshinova added 1 commit 2023-08-03 14:24:30 +02:00
Hoshinova added 1 commit 2023-08-03 16:23:23 +02:00
Hoshinova added 1 commit 2023-08-03 21:04:11 +02:00
Ray molenkamp commented 2023-08-03 21:09:46 +02:00
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@blender-bot package

@blender-bot package
Blender Bot commented 2023-08-03 21:09:50 +02:00
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Package build started. Download here when ready.

Package build started. [Download here](https://builder.blender.org/download/patch/PR110728) when ready.
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-03 22:13:34 +02:00
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With the latest commit "Truncated Modulo" now also works on GPU OptiX OSL. I tested all implementations of "Truncated Modulo" and "Floored Modulo" and they all work on my machine.

If there are no further requests this PR is be ready to be merged.

With the latest commit "Truncated Modulo" now also works on GPU OptiX OSL. I tested all implementations of "Truncated Modulo" and "Floored Modulo" and they all work on my machine. If there are no further requests this PR is be ready to be merged.
Charlie Jolly commented 2023-08-04 13:10:52 +02:00
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We do already have the Wrap function in the math node which provides a floored modulo albeit with a different name and additional parameter. Wrap was added a while back and was ported from Godot.

float wrap(float a, float b, float c)
{
  float range = b - c;
  return (range != 0.0) ? a - (range * floor((a - c) / range)) : c;
}

vs

void math_floored_modulo(float a, float b, float c, out float result)
{
  result = (b != 0.0) ? a - floor(a / b) * b : 0.0;
}

image

We do already have the `Wrap` function in the math node which provides a floored modulo albeit with a different name and additional parameter. Wrap was added a while back and was ported from Godot. ``` float wrap(float a, float b, float c) { float range = b - c; return (range != 0.0) ? a - (range * floor((a - c) / range)) : c; } ``` vs ``` void math_floored_modulo(float a, float b, float c, out float result) { result = (b != 0.0) ? a - floor(a / b) * b : 0.0; } ``` ![image](/attachments/6a6f7d81-4bba-489b-8655-0c2bc2df86bf)
image.png
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Hoshinova commented 2023-08-04 17:42:52 +02:00
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@CharlieJolly Sure, the Wrap operation may also be able to output the same results, but the additional parameter makes it harder to wrap your head around it.

The math node already has many redundant operations like, Square Root, Inverse Square Root and Exponent, which can all be replaced by just Power.
Compared to that Floored Modulo isn't that big of an offender.

Also I think most users don't even know what Wrap does while Floored Modulo is a much more commonly known operation.
But in the end it's mostly just a convenience thing.

@CharlieJolly Sure, the `Wrap` operation may also be able to output the same results, but the additional parameter makes it harder to wrap your head around it. The math node already has many redundant operations like, `Square Root`, `Inverse Square Root` and `Exponent`, which can all be replaced by just `Power`. Compared to that `Floored Modulo` isn't that big of an offender. Also I think most users don't even know what `Wrap` does while `Floored Modulo` is a much more commonly known operation. But in the end it's mostly just a convenience thing.
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Charlie Jolly commented 2023-08-04 17:54:51 +02:00
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@Hoshinova I do agree, prefer to have more explicit ops for readability of the node trees.

@Hoshinova I do agree, prefer to have more explicit ops for readability of the node trees.
Ray molenkamp commented 2023-08-04 17:59:42 +02:00
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The math node already has many redundant operations like, Square Root, Inverse Square Root and Exponent, which can all be replaced by just Power.

Mathematically : yes
User experience wise: no

> The math node already has many redundant operations like, Square Root, Inverse Square Root and Exponent, which can all be replaced by just Power. Mathematically : yes User experience wise: no
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-04 18:08:47 +02:00
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@LazyDodo The addition of Floored Modulo is exactly something that makes user experience better so I think were agreeing on that case here.

@LazyDodo The addition of `Floored Modulo` is exactly something that makes user experience better so I think were agreeing on that case here.
Omar Emara approved these changes 2023-08-05 16:58:49 +02:00
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I think the description of the operators could be improved and be made more user friendly. Otherwise, this is fine. Though you should wait for Brecht or Jacques to review this.

I think the description of the operators could be improved and be made more user friendly. Otherwise, this is fine. Though you should wait for Brecht or Jacques to review this.
Omar Emara changed title from WIP: Add Floored Modulo to All Implementations of The Math Node. to Add Floored Modulo to All Implementations of The Math Node. 2023-08-05 16:59:00 +02:00
Iliya Katushenock commented 2023-08-05 17:04:12 +02:00
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I think this is redundant, and just creates the redundancy of operations that the Hoshinova is talking about The math node already has many redundant operations like, Square Root, Inverse Square Root and Exponent, which can all be replaced by just Power.. Yes, and this operation can replaced by floor(size * X).

I think this is redundant, and just creates the redundancy of operations that the Hoshinova is talking about `The math node already has many redundant operations like, Square Root, Inverse Square Root and Exponent, which can all be replaced by just Power.`. Yes, and this operation can replaced by `floor(size * X)`.
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-05 18:45:16 +02:00
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@mod_moder Quoting LazyDodo:

Mathematically : yes
User experience wise: no

Unlike Floored Modulo the Wrap operation is a rather uncommon operation. Floored Modulo (a, b) is much more explicit about what is being calculated compared to Wrap (a, b , 0.0).
Blender is mostly used by artists, not mathematicians so our goal when designing the Blender should be to make it as intuitive for the artists to use as possible, not as mathematically general as possible.

In this case I think that the explicitness of Floored Modulo far outweighs the cost of a little redundancy.

@mod_moder Quoting LazyDodo: > Mathematically : yes User experience wise: no Unlike `Floored Modulo` the `Wrap` operation is a rather uncommon operation. `Floored Modulo (a, b)` is much more explicit about what is being calculated compared to `Wrap (a, b , 0.0)`. Blender is mostly used by artists, not mathematicians so our goal when designing the Blender should be to make it as intuitive for the artists to use as possible, not as mathematically general as possible. In this case I think that the explicitness of `Floored Modulo` far outweighs the cost of a little redundancy.
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-05 18:50:05 +02:00
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@OmarEmaraDev

I think the description of the operators could be improved and be made more user friendly.

Hmm, not sure what I could add to the description I think The remainder of truncated division pretty much sums it up already.
I mean adding a definition of truncated division would be overkill for a simple description.

@OmarEmaraDev > I think the description of the operators could be improved and be made more user friendly. Hmm, not sure what I could add to the description I think `The remainder of truncated division` pretty much sums it up already. I mean adding a definition of truncated division would be overkill for a simple description.
Iliya Katushenock commented 2023-08-05 18:51:09 +02:00
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The simplification for artists should mainly be in new assets, and not in duplicating functionality with the addition of factors, right?

The simplification for artists should mainly be in new assets, and not in duplicating functionality with the addition of factors, right?
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-05 18:53:59 +02:00
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@mod_moder I don't see this as a duplication of functionality.
In fact before CharlieJolly pointed it out I didn't even know that you could use Wrap to emulate Floored Modulo and I think that this applies to the vast majority of users.

@mod_moder I don't see this as a duplication of functionality. In fact before CharlieJolly pointed it out I didn't even know that you could use `Wrap` to emulate `Floored Modulo` and I think that this applies to the vast majority of users.
Iliya Katushenock commented 2023-08-05 18:55:26 +02:00
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I've been doing this for the last six years with floor and multiplication.

I've been doing this for the last six years with floor and multiplication.
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-05 18:56:02 +02:00
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Math is already hard enough for many artists, so I don't see how obfuscating common math operations behind other less common operations is a good idea.

Math is already hard enough for many artists, so I don't see how obfuscating common math operations behind other less common operations is a good idea.
Iliya Katushenock commented 2023-08-05 18:59:24 +02:00
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As I see it, you are just putting the multiplication fact into the code. Although it may be a separate node. And it does not require a change in the code.
The example you gave earlier with power functions and Square Root, .... Its difference lies in the fact that the Square Root is a generally accepted, optimized operation implemented on all platforms. And not just a bind for the pow(x, 0.5), made for artists who don't know log-mathematics.

As I see it, you are just putting the multiplication fact into the code. Although it may be a separate node. And it does not require a change in the code. The example you gave earlier with power functions and `Square Root`, .... Its difference lies in the fact that the `Square Root` is a generally accepted, optimized operation implemented on all platforms. And not just a bind for the `pow(x, 0.5)`, made for artists who don't know log-mathematics.
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-05 19:01:31 +02:00
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Well of course it's possible to create your own operations out of more elementary operations but with that logic most operations should be removed.
Why need Subtract if you could Multiply by -1.0 then do an Add. We also wouldn't need a Vector Math node as all the operations could theoretically be done using just Separate XYZ and the scalar Math node.

Does it work mathematically? Yes.
Is it good software design? Absolutely not.

Well of course it's possible to create your own operations out of more elementary operations but with that logic most operations should be removed. Why need `Subtract` if you could `Multiply` by `-1.0` then do an `Add`. We also wouldn't need a `Vector Math` node as all the operations could theoretically be done using just `Separate XYZ` and the scalar `Math` node. Does it work mathematically? Yes. Is it good software design? Absolutely not.
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Omar Emara commented 2023-08-05 21:51:04 +02:00
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@SimonThommes What do you think about adding this new operator to the math node? Would you call it redundant or a convenient addition?

@SimonThommes What do you think about adding this new operator to the math node? Would you call it redundant or a convenient addition?
Jacques Lucke commented 2023-08-05 22:33:20 +02:00
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I think it's perfectly valid to have floored modulo as a low level operation.
However, I think the patch description and therefore also the final commit message should still be improved given the things that have been brought up in the conversation here. The patch description makes it sound like you couldn't achieve the result on the right easily currently.

Lastly, it would be nice for the sake of completeness if you could prepare a .blend file that shows that the new operation behaves the same in all node systems.

I think it's perfectly valid to have floored modulo as a low level operation. However, I think the patch description and therefore also the final commit message should still be improved given the things that have been brought up in the conversation here. The patch description makes it sound like you couldn't achieve the result on the right easily currently. Lastly, it would be nice for the sake of completeness if you could prepare a .blend file that shows that the new operation behaves the same in all node systems.
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-06 15:01:41 +02:00
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@JacquesLucke I updated the patch description.

Here's the .blend file you requested:
Modulo_Test.blend

It shows the behavior of all implementations (Shader, Geo, Compositor nodes) for Truncated Modulo and Floored Modulo, except for the old Texture nodes because I have no idea how that node system works.

@JacquesLucke I updated the patch description. Here's the .blend file you requested: [Modulo_Test.blend](/attachments/7e52f0e3-11f3-4c2d-8a2f-a0eaf31f286c) It shows the behavior of all implementations (Shader, Geo, Compositor nodes) for `Truncated Modulo` and `Floored Modulo`, except for the old Texture nodes because I have no idea how that node system works.
Modulo_Test.blend
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Jacques Lucke approved these changes 2023-08-07 22:32:05 +02:00
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LGTM. @brecht guess the is fine for you as well?

LGTM. @brecht guess the is fine for you as well?
source/blender/blenkernel/intern/customdata.cc Outdated
@ -3505,7 +3505,6 @@ void CustomData_swap_corners(CustomData *data, const int index, const int *corne
}
}
Jacques Lucke commented 2023-08-05 22:22:03 +02:00
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unrelated change

unrelated change
Hoshinova commented 2023-08-07 23:43:22 +02:00
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Pretty sure that was just Clang format, but I'll unchange it.

Pretty sure that was just Clang format, but I'll unchange it.
Brecht Van Lommel approved these changes 2023-08-08 00:01:37 +02:00
Hoshinova added 1 commit 2023-08-08 11:17:18 +02:00
Jacques Lucke merged commit b880485492 into main 2023-08-08 12:13:08 +02:00
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