Fix #126665: Restore 'Absolute Grid Snap' option #128135

Germano Cavalcante · 2024-09-25T21:32:32+02:00

2024-09-25 21:32:32 +02:00

Absolute Grid Snap still proves useful even with the Snap to Grid,
so reimplement this option and partially revert f0479e915f

`Absolute Grid Snap` still proves useful even with the `Snap to Grid`, so reimplement this option and partially revert f0479e915f --- <img width="178" alt="image" src="attachments/990f8ef5-9b47-4758-b2a7-68553115f28b">

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Germano Cavalcante requested review from Dalai Felinto 2024-09-25 21:35:10 +02:00

Germano Cavalcante requested review from Daniel Bystedt 2024-09-25 21:35:11 +02:00

Germano Cavalcante commented

2024-09-25 21:36:10 +02:00

@blender-bot package

A build will be available for download for testing the Absolute Grid Snap.

@Tilation, @Jonatan-Cwiakalski, @sean-murray

@blender-bot package A build will be available for download for testing the `Absolute Grid Snap`. --- @Tilation, @Jonatan-Cwiakalski, @sean-murray

Blender Bot commented

2024-09-25 21:36:20 +02:00

Package build started. Download here when ready.

Package build started. [Download here](https://builder.blender.org/download/patch/PR128135) when ready.

Jonatan-Cwiakalski commented

2024-09-26 07:16:21 +02:00

First-time contributor

Hi Germano.
First of all - thank you very much for your effort to restore the "Absolute Grid Snap" option. It is really heartwarming that Blender creators actually do care about users (not like big corporations - for example with name starting with "M" ;) ).

Now... having said that, I just downloaded this build:

And... unfortunately it seems like "Absolute Grid Snap" option doesn't work yet (despite the fact that the option itself is back - which is a good sign :) ). Here is a result of attempt to move an object from x position = 1.1384 m (to keep it consistent with #126665) to x position = 1 m using "Absolute Grid Snap" (on the left Blender 3.1.2, on the right - the above build):

As you can see in Blender 3.1.2 the object was successfully moved to x position = 1 m (as intended), but in Blender 4.3.0 Alpha it was moved by increment starting from initial position (which is "Increment" snap type behavior without "Absolute Grid Snap").

I hope "Absolute Grid Snap" can be brought back and... once again - thank you so much for caring. You are the best! :)

Best regards
Jonatan

P.S. By the way - you mentioned in #126665 that:

I read and re-read all the comments here, but I'm still not sure of the importance of the Absolute Grid Snap.

I made an attempt in that thread to describe why it is important for me (so maybe you will feel better working hard on it :) ).

@mano-wii

Hi Germano. First of all - thank you very much for your effort to restore the "Absolute Grid Snap" option. It is really heartwarming that Blender creators actually do care about users (not like big corporations - for example with name starting with "M" ;) ). ________________________ Now... having said that, I just downloaded this build: ![image](/attachments/82f2365e-c3aa-4df7-a691-46f060fef7d3) ________________________ And... unfortunately it seems like "Absolute Grid Snap" option doesn't work yet (despite the fact that the option itself is back - which is a good sign :) ). Here is a result of attempt to move an object from x position = 1.1384 m (to keep it consistent with https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/issues/126665) to x position = 1 m using "Absolute Grid Snap" (on the left Blender 3.1.2, on the right - the above build): ![image](/attachments/7906afe9-09f7-4ddf-894a-37d4d1e03060) As you can see in Blender 3.1.2 the object was successfully moved to x position = 1 m (as intended), but in Blender 4.3.0 Alpha it was moved by increment starting from initial position (which is "Increment" snap type behavior without "Absolute Grid Snap"). I hope "Absolute Grid Snap" can be brought back and... once again - thank you so much for caring. You are the best! :) Best regards Jonatan P.S. By the way - you mentioned in https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/issues/126665 that: > I read and re-read all the comments here, but I'm still not sure of the importance of the Absolute Grid Snap. I made an attempt in that thread to describe why it is important for me (so maybe you will feel better working hard on it :) ). ____________ @mano-wii

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Germano Cavalcante commented

2024-09-27 00:21:47 +02:00

Thanks @Jonatan-Cwiakalski for testing.
The problem in the reported case is that the snap point used is the 3D cursor.
Problem solved now ;)

@blender-bot package

Thanks @Jonatan-Cwiakalski for testing. The problem in the reported case is that the snap point used is the 3D cursor. Problem solved now ;) @blender-bot package

Blender Bot commented

2024-09-27 00:21:55 +02:00

Package build started. Download here when ready.

Package build started. [Download here](https://builder.blender.org/download/patch/PR128135) when ready.

Jonatan-Cwiakalski commented

2024-09-28 20:42:30 +02:00

First-time contributor

Hello Germano.
Sorry for late answer but I wanted to play a bit with this new build.

First of all - problem is now solved indeed! And that made my week :). Thank you so much! You are like Gandalf for me from now on!

Now - having my beer drinked to that, I spent some time to explore snapping options and if you are interested - below you can find what I've found.

"Absolute Grid Snap" under "Increment" section

"Absolute Grid Snap" works like before, which is great (!), but it could work even greater because "Snap Base" buttons was added to "Increment"... but it looks like assigning proper behavior to all options ("Closest", "Center", "Median", "Active") was forgotten - they all act like "Median".

"Grid" section

On the other hand "Grid" respects different options from "Snap Base" but:

"Closest" does not snap to world based Grid (so basically acts like "Increment" without "Absolute Grid Snap"), and offsets snapping by offset of mouse cursor from 3D cursor (in Edit Mode), or object from 3D cursor (in Object Mode) - which looks like "Center" behavior.
"Center" does not snap to world based Grid.
"Median" and "Active" snaps to world based Grid, which is great, but it starts snapping from grid point nearest to mouse cursor.

"starts snapping from grid point nearest to mouse cursor"

As for "starts snapping from grid point nearest to mouse cursor"... I don't know - maybe it was done on purpose, but here are my thoughts on that. It forces me to move attention from elements that I want to snap, to mouse cursor. So basically I have to place cursor near place where I want to snap before hitting "G", or allow elements to jump to wherever cursor is at the moment (which I find even more distracting) and start from there.

I would very much prefer starting snapping from original position of elements (basically hitting "G" makes them temporary cursor) because the whole focus goes to where my elements are and where I want to snap them (without worrying about cursor position).

Final thoughts

To sum things up, in my humble opinion it would be best to discard the whole "Grid" section and keep "Absolute Grid Snap" under "Increment" (after assigning proper behavior to "Closest", "Center", and "Active") because it does what I expect from "Grid" section. But if you would really like to emphasize snapping to grid by creating dedicated section, it should be (still in my humble opinion) adjusted so it would act like current "Absolute Grid Snap" (plus fixing "Closest", "Center", and "Active"). In that case keeping "Absolute Grid Snap" would be in fact redundant.

I tried to describe everything as clear and precise as I could, but if I failed and something is unclear - don't hesitate to reach me. Well... assuming that any of this sounds interesting to you ;).

Once again - thank you very much for working hard on Blender! (And - if you got to this point - for reading all of this ;)

Best regards
Jonatan

@mano-wii

Hello Germano. Sorry for late answer but I wanted to play a bit with this new build. First of all - **problem is now solved indeed!** And that made my week :). Thank you so much! You are like Gandalf for me from now on! Now - having my beer drinked to that, I spent some time to explore snapping options and if you are interested - below you can find what I've found. _____________________ ### "Absolute Grid Snap" under "Increment" section "Absolute Grid Snap" works like before, which is great (!), but it could work even greater because "Snap Base" buttons was added to "Increment"... but it looks like assigning proper behavior to all options ("Closest", "Center", "Median", "Active") was forgotten - they all act like "Median". _____________________ ### "Grid" section On the other hand "Grid" respects different options from "Snap Base" but: - "Closest" does not snap to world based Grid (so basically acts like "Increment" without "Absolute Grid Snap"), and offsets snapping by offset of mouse cursor from 3D cursor (in Edit Mode), or object from 3D cursor (in Object Mode) - which looks like "Center" behavior. - "Center" does not snap to world based Grid. - "Median" and "Active" snaps to world based Grid, which is great, but it starts snapping from grid point nearest to mouse cursor. _____________________ ### "starts snapping from grid point nearest to mouse cursor" As for "starts snapping from grid point nearest to mouse cursor"... I don't know - maybe it was done on purpose, but here are my thoughts on that. It forces me to move attention from elements that I want to snap, to mouse cursor. So basically I have to place cursor near place where I want to snap before hitting "G", or allow elements to jump to wherever cursor is at the moment (which I find even more distracting) and start from there. I would very much prefer starting snapping from original position of elements (basically hitting "G" makes them temporary cursor) because the whole focus goes to where my elements are and where I want to snap them (without worrying about cursor position). _____________________ ### Final thoughts To sum things up, in my humble opinion it would be best to discard the whole "Grid" section and keep "Absolute Grid Snap" under "Increment" (after assigning proper behavior to "Closest", "Center", and "Active") because it does what I expect from "Grid" section. But if you would really like to emphasize snapping to grid by creating dedicated section, it should be (still in my humble opinion) adjusted so it would act like current "Absolute Grid Snap" (plus fixing "Closest", "Center", and "Active"). In that case keeping "Absolute Grid Snap" would be in fact redundant. _____________________ I tried to describe everything as clear and precise as I could, but if I failed and something is unclear - don't hesitate to reach me. Well... assuming that any of this sounds interesting to you ;). Once again - thank you very much for working hard on Blender! (And - if you got to this point - for reading all of this ;) Best regards Jonatan _____________________ @mano-wii

Germano Cavalcante commented

2024-09-28 22:08:17 +02:00

"Absolute Grid Snap" works like before, which is great (!), but it could work even greater ...

Good to see that it's working as before. Bringing the feature back is what is proposed in this PR, so no improvements for now. (Unless it is something already discussed and approved).

"Closest" does not snap to world based Grid ...

It's an error, thanks for letting me know. "Closest" in 'Snap to Grid' is fallbacking to "Center" instead of "Median". In your file, "Center" is equivalent to the 3D cursor. The original design was supposed to be "Median". It will be fixed, but should be reported separately.

"starts snapping from grid point nearest to mouse cursor"

This is to work conveniently with 'Set Snap Base', Add Object tools, Measure tool, Drag and Drop and others transform operators (Rotate, Scale, Vert/Edge Slide...).

To sum things up, in my humble opinion it would be best to discard the whole "Grid" section and keep "Absolute Grid Snap" under "Increment"

I recommend posting this idea in one of the feature request channels (https://developer.blender.org/docs/handbook/communication/user_feedback/#feature-requests) so we can see how the community responds. Remember to point out solutions for other features that currently support 'Snap to Grid'.

> "Absolute Grid Snap" works like before, which is great (!), but it could work even greater ... Good to see that it's working as before. Bringing the feature back is what is proposed in this PR, so no improvements for now. (Unless it is something already discussed and approved). --- > "Closest" does not snap to world based Grid ... It's an error, thanks for letting me know. "Closest" in 'Snap to Grid' is fallbacking to "Center" instead of "Median". In your file, "Center" is equivalent to the 3D cursor. The original design was supposed to be "Median". It will be fixed, but should be reported separately. --- > "starts snapping from grid point nearest to mouse cursor" This is to work conveniently with 'Set Snap Base', Add Object tools, Measure tool, Drag and Drop and others transform operators (Rotate, Scale, Vert/Edge Slide...). --- > To sum things up, in my humble opinion it would be best to discard the whole "Grid" section and keep "Absolute Grid Snap" under "Increment" I recommend posting this idea in one of the feature request channels (https://developer.blender.org/docs/handbook/communication/user_feedback/#feature-requests) so we can see how the community responds. Remember to point out solutions for other features that currently support 'Snap to Grid'.

Jonatan-Cwiakalski commented

2024-09-30 17:40:22 +02:00

First-time contributor

Hello Germano.

Thanks for the comments.

As for reporting - OK - I'll try to find some time to figure out how it works and give it a try.

As for:

"starts snapping from grid point nearest to mouse cursor"

This is to work conveniently with 'Set Snap Base', Add Object tools, Measure tool, Drag and Drop and others transform operators (Rotate, Scale, Vert/Edge Slide...).

As I mentioned - I'd prefer it the other way. But it seems like making everyone happy is impossible (although this could be a matter of users choice) unless we all became exactly the same (creepy). So... I was thinking... Would it be possible to create an addon that would allow me to change this behavior to fit my preferences? Or it would require digging in source code and deep knowledge about coding? I'm starting to think about at least try to learn some of that magic... so maybe one day I will be able to get what I want by myself...

Best regards
Jonatan

@mano-wii

Hello Germano. Thanks for the comments. As for reporting - OK - I'll try to find some time to figure out how it works and give it a try. As for: > --- > > "starts snapping from grid point nearest to mouse cursor" > > This is to work conveniently with 'Set Snap Base', Add Object tools, Measure tool, Drag and Drop and others transform operators (Rotate, Scale, Vert/Edge Slide...). > > --- As I mentioned - I'd prefer it the other way. But it seems like making everyone happy is impossible (although this could be a matter of users choice) unless we all became exactly the same (creepy). So... I was thinking... Would it be possible to create an addon that would allow me to change this behavior to fit my preferences? Or it would require digging in source code and deep knowledge about coding? I'm starting to think about at least try to learn some of that magic... so maybe one day I will be able to get what I want by myself... Best regards Jonatan _____________________ @mano-wii

Germano Cavalcante commented

2024-09-30 19:09:32 +02:00

In some transform operations other than Move (for example, Rotate), it is not possible to use snap based on the object's position. In most cases, the snap has to be to the point indicated by the mouse cursor.

For example, the Add Object tool, the 'Snap to Grid' has to be to the point on the grid pointed to by the mouse. (Same for Drag and Drop, Set Snap Base...)

We could change the snap only in the Move operator, but, in my opinion, making the new 'Snap to Grid' behave differently in the Move operation, although good for users already accustomed to the 'Absolute Grid Snap', can be bad for new users who have to notice the difference depending on the situation.

(Note that recently 2 bugs in 'Snap to Grid' were fixed. Snap to Grid with constraint was the most affected by the bug and now behaves almost the same as the previous 'Absolute Grid Snap').

But it seems like making everyone happy is impossible ...

In my opinion, bringing 'Absolute Grid Snap' back makes everyone happy.

(I can be wrong, but over the time, after bringing back 'Absolute Grid Snap', I imagine that it will start to fall into disuse).

In some transform operations other than Move (for example, Rotate), it is not possible to use snap based on the object's position. In most cases, the snap has to be to the point indicated by the mouse cursor. For example, the Add Object tool, the 'Snap to Grid' has to be to the point on the grid pointed to by the mouse. (Same for Drag and Drop, Set Snap Base...) We could change the snap only in the Move operator, but, in my opinion, making the new 'Snap to Grid' behave differently in the Move operation, although good for users already accustomed to the 'Absolute Grid Snap', can be bad for new users who have to notice the difference depending on the situation. (Note that recently 2 bugs in 'Snap to Grid' were fixed. Snap to Grid with constraint was the most affected by the bug and now behaves almost the same as the previous 'Absolute Grid Snap'). > But it seems like making everyone happy is impossible ... In my opinion, bringing 'Absolute Grid Snap' back makes everyone happy. --- (I can be wrong, but over the time, after bringing back 'Absolute Grid Snap', I imagine that it will start to fall into disuse).

Dalai Felinto commented

2024-10-01 12:12:02 +02:00

@mano-wii even getting deep into the patch review I found some wrong. If Increment and Grid are both selected, Absolute Grid Snap should be deactive (with a tooltip explaining why: grid seems to force snap to always be absolute in this case):

Did I misunderstand how the feature is working?

@mano-wii even getting deep into the patch review I found some wrong. If **Increment** and **Grid** are both selected, **Absolute Grid Snap** should be deactive (with a tooltip explaining why: grid seems to force snap to always be absolute in this case): <img width="215" alt="image" src="attachments/f4d56a8c-3066-446b-8128-7220281d4319"> Did I misunderstand how the feature is working?

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Germano Cavalcante commented

2024-10-01 21:45:45 +02:00

@dfelinto,

In fact, 'Snap to Increments' does not work when 'Snap to Grid' is also enabled. This is because, in its current implementation, snapping to increments only works when no other snap elements are found. It's essentially a fallback option.

Since 'Snap to Grid' lacks a threshold distance, there is always a grid point available for snapping (either on one of the 3 axis planes or in 3D space), meaning it never falls back to 'Snap to Increments'. (A similar issue occurs with 'Snap to Volume' when used alongside 'Snap to Face').

This behavior is intentional, as we haven't yet found a way to integrate 'Snap to Increments' with other snap types due to their inherent differences.

The reason for this PR:

The reason for reintroducing 'Absolute Grid Snap' is due to certain differences from 'Snap to Grid' that many users found undesirable.

The key differences are:

Absolute Grid Snap	Snap to Grid
Snaps to a point on the 3D volumetric grid	Prioritizes the floor plane (XY) or the XZ and YZ planes
Based on the position of the object	Based on the position of the mouse cursor
'Snap Base' is always the Median	'Snap Base' follows the options: 'Center', 'Median', or 'Active'
Only works for the Move operator	Works for all tools with Snap functionality

Note: 'Absolute Grid Snap' changes the behavior of 'Snap to Increments', which, as mentioned, does not currently work alongside 'Snap to Grid'.
@blender-bot package

@dfelinto, In fact, 'Snap to Increments' does not work when 'Snap to Grid' is also enabled. This is because, in its current implementation, snapping to increments only works when no other snap elements are found. It's essentially a fallback option. Since 'Snap to Grid' lacks a threshold distance, there is always a grid point available for snapping (either on one of the 3 axis planes or in 3D space), meaning it never falls back to 'Snap to Increments'. (A similar issue occurs with 'Snap to Volume' when used alongside 'Snap to Face'). This behavior is intentional, as we haven't yet found a way to integrate 'Snap to Increments' with other snap types due to their inherent differences. --- **The reason for this PR:** The reason for reintroducing 'Absolute Grid Snap' is due to certain differences from 'Snap to Grid' that many users found undesirable. The key differences are: | Absolute Grid Snap | Snap to Grid | | --- | --- | | Snaps to a point on the 3D volumetric grid | Prioritizes the floor plane (XY) or the XZ and YZ planes | | Based on the position of the object | Based on the position of the mouse cursor | | 'Snap Base' is always the Median | 'Snap Base' follows the options: 'Center', 'Median', or 'Active' | | Only works for the Move operator | Works for all tools with Snap functionality | --- Note: 'Absolute Grid Snap' changes the behavior of 'Snap to Increments', which, as mentioned, does not currently work alongside 'Snap to Grid'. @blender-bot package

Blender Bot commented

2024-10-01 21:46:30 +02:00

Package build started. Download here when ready.

Package build started. [Download here](https://builder.blender.org/download/patch/PR128135) when ready.

Germano Cavalcante referenced this pull request

2024-10-07 20:24:21 +02:00

Snap gird bug #128643

Nika Kutsniashvili commented

2024-10-08 12:24:40 +02:00

Maybe good time to rename this to something more intuitive as well. Absolute Grid Snap was confusing before and will be even more confusing now with separate Snap to Grid. Maybe "Volumetric Grid Snap"

Daniel Bystedt commented

2024-10-08 23:39:13 +02:00

I have tested the PR. @dfelinto asked me to give feedback:

I think the snapping behaviour in this PR works well.

Rename Absolute Grid Snap to Absolute Increment Snap
@nickberckley has a good point regarding renaming in order not to confuse Increment with Grid. Since "Absolute grid snap" is only available with snap target Increment, I think it should be renamed to Absolute Increment Snap.

Regarding Snap Base
Snap Base with Snap targetGrid works in the same manner as with Vertex, which is good. If snap base behaviour should be changed for Snap target Increment, I think that should be made in a separate design task for the sake of momentum (i.e commiting this PR to main)

I have tested the PR. @dfelinto asked me to give feedback: I think the snapping behaviour in this PR works well. **Rename Absolute Grid Snap to Absolute Increment Snap** @nickberckley has a good point regarding renaming in order not to confuse `Increment `with `Grid`. Since "Absolute grid snap" is only available with snap target `Increment`, I think it should be renamed to Absolute Increment Snap. **Regarding Snap Base** Snap Base with Snap target`Grid` works in the same manner as with `Vertex`, which is good. If snap base behaviour should be changed for Snap target `Increment`, I think that should be made in a separate design task for the sake of momentum (i.e commiting this PR to main)

Germano Cavalcante force-pushed fix_126665 from 7980589f8f to 4d62d65405

2024-10-09 03:27:00 +02:00

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Germano Cavalcante changed target branch from main to blender-v4.3-release

2024-10-09 03:28:59 +02:00

Germano Cavalcante added 1 commit 2024-10-09 04:32:16 +02:00

Merge branch 'blender-v4.3-release' into fix_126665

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Germano Cavalcante commented

2024-10-09 04:39:29 +02:00

Renamed to "Absolute Increment Snap" to avoid confusion.
I think most of the points have been covered. And the build is well tested.
I will continue the process of merging, backporting (and maybe adding it to the release notes tomorrow if all OK).

@blender-bot package

Renamed to "Absolute Increment Snap" to avoid confusion. I think most of the points have been covered. And the build is well tested. I will continue the process of merging, backporting (and maybe adding it to the release notes tomorrow if all OK). @blender-bot package

👍 1

Blender Bot commented

2024-10-09 04:39:39 +02:00

Package build started. Download here when ready.

Package build started. [Download here](https://builder.blender.org/download/patch/PR128135) when ready.

Germano Cavalcante merged commit 75ffda39b2 into blender-v4.3-release

2024-10-09 22:52:43 +02:00

Germano Cavalcante referenced this issue from a commit

2024-10-09 22:52:45 +02:00

Fix #126665: Reintroduce 'Absolute Grid Snap' (now 'Absolute Increment Snap')

Germano Cavalcante deleted branch fix_126665

2024-10-09 22:52:52 +02:00

Paul Kotelevets commented

2024-10-12 01:34:05 +02:00

First-time contributor

Renamed to "Absolute Increment Snap" to avoid confusion.

Nice move.
Snapping to Grid is expected to have exclusively absolute behavior, but "Absolute Grid" wording assumes that non-absolute grid snapping behavior might exist.
"Absolute Increment Snap" wording indeed fits the functionality better (without it Increment Snap indeed has Relative behavior) which allow to avoid confusion.

> Renamed to "Absolute Increment Snap" to avoid confusion. Nice move. Snapping to Grid is expected to have exclusively absolute behavior, but "Absolute Grid" wording assumes that non-absolute grid snapping behavior might exist. "Absolute Increment Snap" wording indeed fits the functionality better (without it Increment Snap indeed has Relative behavior) which allow to avoid confusion.

Philipp Oeser referenced this issue from a commit

2024-11-12 15:22:39 +01:00

Fix #126665: Reintroduce 'Absolute Grid Snap' (now 'Absolute Increment Snap')

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Fix #126665: Restore 'Absolute Grid Snap' option #128135

"Absolute Grid Snap" under "Increment" section

"Grid" section

"starts snapping from grid point nearest to mouse cursor"

Final thoughts