WIP: Visualize snapping type by showing different symbols #107054

Erik Abrahamsson · 2023-04-17T23:04:05+02:00

Erik Abrahamsson commented

2023-04-17 23:04:05 +02:00

To make it easier to see where a snap is happening, instead of a circle this patch draws different symbols for the most common snap types.

This applies to the ruler tool and transform in 3D View.

Build:
https://builder.blender.org/download/patch/PR107054/

To make it easier to see where a snap is happening, instead of a circle this patch draws different symbols for the most common snap types. This applies to the ruler tool and transform in 3D View. ![GIF.gif](attachments/740b54c6-6643-46d9-9865-f51db1b95320) **Build:** https://builder.blender.org/download/patch/PR107054/

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Erik Abrahamsson added the

Module

User Interface

label 2023-04-17 23:05:46 +02:00

Germano Cavalcante commented

2023-04-20 15:08:30 +02:00

Interesting proposal.
This is something I've worked on before, but the symbols I used were the same icons shown in the Snap Menu:

(The idea didn't sit well at the time)

I wonder if it wouldn't be nice to update the Snap Menu as well to use icons that represent those same symbols.

I would also like to know what motivated the choice of these specific symbols. Was it a community choice?

Interesting proposal. This is something I've worked on before, but the symbols I used were the same icons shown in the Snap Menu: ![Snap Menu.png](/attachments/6c149b66-e3f9-4dd8-a801-2da79af21830) (The idea didn't sit well at the time) I wonder if it wouldn't be nice to update the Snap Menu as well to use icons that represent those same symbols. I would also like to know what motivated the choice of these specific symbols. Was it a community choice?

Captura de Tela 2023-04-20 às 09.47.15.png

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Erik Abrahamsson commented

2023-04-20 15:27:44 +02:00

I would also like to know what motivated the choice of these specific symbols. Was it a community choice?

These are the symbols I'm familiar with from CAD software I've been working with previously. I can't show a screenshot here I suppose but make an image search for "object snap settings autocad" to see what I mean.
Could be any symbols I suppose, or even drawing an icon next to the circle or something like that. The important thing is to be able to very easily see which type of snap is active. This is essential for the measure tool to be useable in a production environment.

> I would also like to know what motivated the choice of these specific symbols. Was it a community choice? These are the symbols I'm familiar with from CAD software I've been working with previously. I can't show a screenshot here I suppose but make an image search for "object snap settings autocad" to see what I mean. Could be any symbols I suppose, or even drawing an icon next to the circle or something like that. The important thing is to be able to very easily see which type of snap is active. This is essential for the measure tool to be useable in a production environment.

Germano Cavalcante commented

2023-04-20 15:34:31 +02:00

I would like to see the opinion of the User Interface team on this.
Personally, I feel that the current 'single symbol' behavior has its advantage of being more "clean".
I'm also not sure about using symbols from other software (unless it's some international convention).

(Updating snap icons might be something for another PR).

I would like to see the opinion of the `User Interface` team on this. Personally, I feel that the current 'single symbol' behavior has its advantage of being more "clean". I'm also not sure about using symbols from other software (unless it's some international convention). (Updating snap icons might be something for another PR).

Erik Abrahamsson commented

2023-04-20 15:49:52 +02:00

Personally, I feel that the current 'single symbol' behavior has its advantage of being more "clean".

I'm trying to use Blender for showing 3d models in a production environment where the users need to be able to grab measurements from the models, and it's pretty much impossible to find endpoints or midpoints as it is today. So I don't think cleanliness makes any sense as an argument. Useability should be much more important.

> Personally, I feel that the current 'single symbol' behavior has its advantage of being more "clean". I'm trying to use Blender for showing 3d models in a production environment where the users need to be able to grab measurements from the models, and it's pretty much impossible to find endpoints or midpoints as it is today. So I don't think cleanliness makes any sense as an argument. Useability should be much more important.

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Germano Cavalcante commented

2023-04-20 15:57:53 +02:00

Ah, it's also good to remember that there are other symbols in the queue waiting to enter the transform code. See !104443

As the symbols in this PR may overlap with some new ones being proposed, it might be better to wait for them.

Ah, it's also good to remember that there are other symbols in the queue waiting to enter the transform code. See !104443 As the symbols in this PR may overlap with some new ones being proposed, it might be better to wait for them.

Erik Abrahamsson commented

2023-04-20 16:49:42 +02:00

Ah, it's also good to remember that there are other symbols in the queue waiting to enter the transform code. See !104443

As the symbols in this PR may overlap with some new ones being proposed, it might be better to wait for them.

Nice, I haven't seen that. I'm unfortunately in a hurry because people are deciding the coming weeks if we should use Blender as I suggested or buy a subscription on expensive CAD software we don't really need. I guess I could make a custom build for internal use with these symbols until something happens.

> Ah, it's also good to remember that there are other symbols in the queue waiting to enter the transform code. See !104443 > > As the symbols in this PR may overlap with some new ones being proposed, it might be better to wait for them. Nice, I haven't seen that. I'm unfortunately in a hurry because people are deciding the coming weeks if we should use Blender as I suggested or buy a subscription on expensive CAD software we don't really need. I guess I could make a custom build for internal use with these symbols until something happens.

Dalai Felinto commented

2023-04-21 10:20:23 +02:00

That patch brings me joy :)

I find it great as it is. I don't see now #104443 interfers with this. If anything it raises the stake for the other patch to come up with icons following this language.

That patch brings me joy :) I find it great as it is. I don't see now #104443 interfers with this. If anything it raises the stake for the other patch to come up with icons following this language.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2023-04-25 20:32:54 +02:00

I don't know what the previous objections were for showing the snap icons, but I can imagine they would be in the way when shown exactly where the cursor is pointing. The thin circle, and shapes in this PR don't have that problem as much.

To use the snapping icons for consistency, it could show them out of the way a bit. Maybe at the bottom right of the cursor, or similar to the measure distance.

I don't know what the previous objections were for showing the snap icons, but I can imagine they would be in the way when shown exactly where the cursor is pointing. The thin circle, and shapes in this PR don't have that problem as much. To use the snapping icons for consistency, it could show them out of the way a bit. Maybe at the bottom right of the cursor, or similar to the measure distance.

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Harley Acheson commented

2023-04-25 21:44:37 +02:00

That is pretty nice!

With the endpoints having important information though, they can be obstructed at some angles and for some short distances. I would love to also consider something like this https://archive.blender.org/developer/D10128 which moves the measurement away from the endpoints.

That is pretty nice! With the endpoints having important information though, they can be obstructed at some angles and for some short distances. I would love to _also_ consider something like this https://archive.blender.org/developer/D10128 which moves the measurement away from the endpoints.

Erik Abrahamsson commented

2023-04-25 22:08:44 +02:00

That is pretty nice!

With the endpoints having important information though, they can be obstructed at some angles and for some short distances. I would love to also consider something like this https://archive.blender.org/developer/D10128 which moves the measurement away from the endpoints.

Yes that is one thing among many improvements that can be made. I also tried showing the XYZ components separately too with red/green/blue colors. That give a much better sense of depth, and removes the need for the XYZ keys to lock the axes.
Another thing is if we want to support measuring on a touch screen, it would be much better to have drag and release to pick the points as it's impossible to hover to see the snap points.

> That is pretty nice! > > With the endpoints having important information though, they can be obstructed at some angles and for some short distances. I would love to _also_ consider something like this https://archive.blender.org/developer/D10128 which moves the measurement away from the endpoints. Yes that is one thing among many improvements that can be made. I also tried showing the XYZ components separately too with red/green/blue colors. That give a much better sense of depth, and removes the need for the XYZ keys to lock the axes. Another thing is if we want to support measuring on a touch screen, it would be much better to have drag and release to pick the points as it's impossible to hover to see the snap points.

Germano Cavalcante commented

2023-04-26 02:11:33 +02:00

I found the patch where I proposed something similar. In this link we can see the discussion in the comments:
https://archive.blender.org/developer/differential/0005/0005546/index.html

About this PR, it feels a bit incomplete that only the snaps for Vertice, Edge and Edge Middle have a special icon. It is understandable that Vertice and Edge Middle might require better differentiation. But it's not clear why to propose 3 new icons when only 1 (either for Vertice or Edge Middle) would solve the confusion.

I found the patch where I proposed something similar. In this link we can see the discussion in the comments: https://archive.blender.org/developer/differential/0005/0005546/index.html About this PR, it feels a bit incomplete that only the snaps for Vertice, Edge and Edge Middle have a special icon. It is understandable that Vertice and Edge Middle might require better differentiation. But it's not clear why to propose 3 new icons when only 1 (either for Vertice or Edge Middle) would solve the confusion.

Erik Abrahamsson commented

2023-04-26 10:27:35 +02:00

About this PR, it feels a bit incomplete that only the snaps for Vertice, Edge and Edge Middle have a special icon. It is understandable that Vertice and Edge Middle might require better differentiation. But it's not clear why to propose 3 new icons when only 1 (either for Vertice or Edge Middle) would solve the confusion.

To me the confusion is not only about vertex/middle edge but all 4 types shown in the gif can be confused with any of the other basically. That's why I proposed 3 new symbols to make sure each one has its own symbol.

> About this PR, it feels a bit incomplete that only the snaps for Vertice, Edge and Edge Middle have a special icon. It is understandable that Vertice and Edge Middle might require better differentiation. But it's not clear why to propose 3 new icons when only 1 (either for Vertice or Edge Middle) would solve the confusion. To me the confusion is not only about vertex/middle edge but all 4 types shown in the gif can be confused with any of the other basically. That's why I proposed 3 new symbols to make sure each one has its own symbol.

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Erik Abrahamsson changed title from ~~Visualize snapping type by showing different symbols~~ to WIP: Visualize snapping type by showing different symbols

2023-04-26 16:04:56 +02:00

Leon Schittek commented

2023-04-27 08:08:57 +02:00

To me the confusion is not only about vertex/middle edge but all 4 types shown in the gif can be confused with any of the other basically. That's why I proposed 3 new symbols to make sure each one has its own symbol.

Using the ruler on a subdivided plane/cube illustrates this pretty well. For coplanar faces and colinear edges you really need to be able to differentiate all different modes of snapping.

I think the symbols chosen work well and I like this concept of simple symbols in the viewport better than putting the icons next to the cursor. From the discussion posted by @mano-wii above it seems to me like the icons are just not designed for that purpose.

I also don't think it's too hard to adjust things a bit so it ties together with the icons. The vertex snap icon already has small squares for the vertices and e.g. the the center snap icon could be changes to have the small triangle to go well with this patch:

Another thing I tried is translating these two parallel lines of the edge snap icon into the snap symbol (rather than the "X"):

See the attached video.
What I like about that is that it also gives an indication in which direction the edge snap is constraining the cursor which also makes it overall work better on coplanar faces.
Though there might be some issues with readability, when the edge is very view-aligned.

> To me the confusion is not only about vertex/middle edge but all 4 types shown in the gif can be confused with any of the other basically. That's why I proposed 3 new symbols to make sure each one has its own symbol. Using the ruler on a subdivided plane/cube illustrates this pretty well. For coplanar faces and colinear edges you really need to be able to differentiate all different modes of snapping. I think the symbols chosen work well and I like this concept of simple symbols in the viewport better than putting the icons next to the cursor. From the discussion posted by @mano-wii above it seems to me like the icons are just not designed for that purpose. I also don't think it's too hard to adjust things a bit so it ties together with the icons. The vertex snap icon already has small squares for the vertices and e.g. the the center snap icon could be changes to have the small triangle to go well with this patch: ![edge-center-mockup.png](/attachments/b3c85bb6-b9f6-43aa-b5f1-d84795ac8bc8) Another thing I tried is translating these two parallel lines of the edge snap icon into the snap symbol (rather than the "X"): ![edge-snap-icon.png](/attachments/37d61dd3-410d-4317-b734-cb2b3c89a441) See the [attached video](/attachments/bb6aa115-c9e5-4433-8e8a-bdc71b9c400b). What I like about that is that it also gives an indication in which direction the edge snap is constraining the cursor which also makes it overall work better on coplanar faces. Though there might be some issues with readability, when the edge is very view-aligned.

edge-snap-icon-test.mp4

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edge-center-mockup.png

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edge-snap-icon.png

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Erik Abrahamsson commented

2023-04-27 14:07:27 +02:00

Now that I think about it "Edge Center" sounds a bit strange. I think renaming it "Edge Midpoint" would make sense?

Another thing I tried is translating these two parallel lines of the edge snap icon into the snap symbol (rather than the "X")

It looks nice that it follows the rotation of the line, but to me it looks like it would be a "parallel to" snap. And also maybe it's a bit strange to have all other symbols static 2D but one follows the geometry?

Now that I think about it "Edge Center" sounds a bit strange. I think renaming it "Edge Midpoint" would make sense? > Another thing I tried is translating these two parallel lines of the edge snap icon into the snap symbol (rather than the "X") It looks nice that it follows the rotation of the line, but to me it looks like it would be a "parallel to" snap. And also maybe it's a bit strange to have all other symbols static 2D but one follows the geometry?

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Germano Cavalcante commented

2023-04-27 15:11:58 +02:00

Instead of symbols, wouldn't it be nice to highlight the vertex, edge or polygon being snapped? I think it would be even more descriptive than symbols. But we would need to be careful not to disturb the overlay drawing.

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Paul Kotelevets commented

2023-04-28 12:34:58 +02:00

First-time contributor

Highlighting is rather disturbing for faces case, weak for vertices case, and also can be quite problematic for a heavy polymeshes, especially with modifiers, isnt it?

Dalai Felinto commented

2023-05-01 11:13:54 +02:00

Instead of symbols, wouldn't it be nice to highlight the vertex, edge or polygon being snapped? I think it would be even more descriptive than symbols. But we would need to be careful not to disturb the overlay drawing.

We already have symbols. This proposal improves on it. I don't think we should have highlight, but if anyone think so they can work on that proposal separately. I don't think it is something that justify getting on the way of this patch.

If this stalls it would be nice if this can be considered in either a UI or a modelling module meeting.

> Instead of symbols, wouldn't it be nice to highlight the vertex, edge or polygon being snapped? I think it would be even more descriptive than symbols. But we would need to be careful not to disturb the overlay drawing. We already have symbols. This proposal improves on it. I don't think we should have highlight, but if anyone think so they can work on that proposal separately. I don't think it is something that justify getting on the way of this patch. If this stalls it would be nice if this can be considered in either a UI or a modelling module meeting.

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Dominik Fill commented

2023-05-10 11:57:46 +02:00

First-time contributor

Coming from working with some very well known CAD program, this proposal makes very much sense.
I think higlighting the vertex/edge/face to snap to would be much more distracting than showing the proposed symbols.

Hope this patch makes it into master.

Coming from working with some very well known CAD program, this proposal makes very much sense. I think higlighting the vertex/edge/face to snap to would be much more distracting than showing the proposed symbols. Hope this patch makes it into master.

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Dominik Fill commented

2023-06-07 13:12:03 +02:00

First-time contributor

Any news if this will land for 4.0?

Dalai Felinto referenced this pull request

2023-06-08 11:32:31 +02:00

Snap Polishing #108669

Erik Abrahamsson commented

2023-06-08 14:14:16 +02:00

Any news if this will land for 4.0?

I will clean up the patch and request review.

> Any news if this will land for 4.0? I will clean up the patch and request review.

Paul Kotelevets referenced this pull request

2023-06-11 02:57:56 +02:00

New snapping mode. Rotation snaps to unknown points. #108824

Dalai Felinto commented

2023-06-16 17:16:43 +02:00

By the way, now we are already using a slim X for Snap Base. To avoid the conflict with this proposal I would go a step further and change the Snap Base symbol to also the symbol of the snap which was used to select it. So if you picked a point as a Snap Base, it shows a square.

Germano Cavalcante referenced this pull request

2023-06-16 21:24:50 +02:00

WIP: Snapping Redesign: Defaults | Navigation | Drawing | Removals #109062

Paul Kotelevets commented

2023-06-17 14:02:36 +02:00

First-time contributor

I think X fits nice because its lines intersection show the exact point which is useful, for example, during edge snapping.

Germano Cavalcante referenced this issue from a commit

2023-06-17 21:54:03 +02:00

Visualize snapping type by showing different symbols

Germano Cavalcante referenced this pull request

2023-06-17 22:11:41 +02:00

WIP: Snapping Redesign: Defaults | Navigation | Drawing | Removals #109062

Germano Cavalcante force-pushed snap-symbols from a8076da279 to 4ace5343ba

2023-06-23 22:51:41 +02:00

Compare

Germano Cavalcante commented

2023-06-23 22:56:59 +02:00

@erik85, I hope you don't mind. But I updated your branch with some changes discussed in #109062

The changes are:

Snap Perpendicular now has a symbol;
Snap to Loose Points is shown different from points linked to edges;
Snap To Edge changed the symbol;
Snap Base shows the chosen target symbol.

I will update the description.

@blender-bot package

@erik85, I hope you don't mind. But I updated your branch with some changes discussed in #109062 The changes are: - Snap Perpendicular now has a symbol; - Snap to Loose Points is shown different from points linked to edges; - Snap To Edge changed the symbol; - Snap Base shows the chosen target symbol. I will update the description. @blender-bot package

Blender Bot commented

2023-06-23 22:57:02 +02:00

Package build started. Download here when ready.

Package build started. [Download here](https://builder.blender.org/download/patch/PR107054) when ready.

Germano Cavalcante requested review from Pablo Vazquez 2023-06-23 23:01:50 +02:00

Germano Cavalcante requested review from William Reynish 2023-06-23 23:01:51 +02:00

Germano Cavalcante commented

2023-06-23 23:04:03 +02:00

I feel like I shouldn't have closed https://archive.blender.org/developer/differential/0005/0005546/index.html

Especially after @billrey and @pablovazquez were requested.

So I'm adding them as reviewers, (if have some time and interest in reviewing the PR).

I feel like I shouldn't have closed https://archive.blender.org/developer/differential/0005/0005546/index.html Especially after @billrey and @pablovazquez were requested. So I'm adding them as reviewers, (if have some time and interest in reviewing the PR).

Germano Cavalcante commented

2023-06-24 02:55:16 +02:00

@blender-bot package