VSE: improved handle tweaking #109522
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Reference: blender/blender#109522
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This commit changes how users can interact with handles:
Unselected handles are not drawn anymore by default, but this can be
changed in overlays. Handles are bit thinner. If handle can't be
selected, because strip is too small, it is not drawn.
When hovering over strip handle a cursor is changed to represent a
handle shape. It is possible to select 2 handles at once if strips are
adjoined. When tweak event happens, previous handle selection is lost,
so only handles/strips that are clicked on are moved. After tweaking,
handles are deselected. This behavior can be disabled in preferences:
Editing > Video Sequencer > Tweak Handles.
Moving strips with G key works same way as before.
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Tried this build. As mentioned in Harley's patch, indicating with the mouse cursor what will happen is a great way to inform users what will happen when they click at that spot.
As this patch currently is, can't the selected handle to the left be seen at all:
Since a 3D object, do not have both an outline on the object and a selected vertex in the 3D View(it is either or), consider removing the strip outline, when the handle of a strip is selected. That'll make it much easier to see what is selected.
Now you're using a bracket shape mouse cursor, have I previously made a patch which adds bracket shaped handles: https://archive.blender.org/developer/differential/0010/0010297/index.html
The trouble with the handles is that the handle will cover the waveform, so it becomes difficult to make an exact edit based on the waveform: https://archive.blender.org/developer/maniphest/0090/0090824/index.html
When Billray was working for BF, we talked about rounded strips, so it would become more clear where the in and out points are - and having thin rounded handles following the outline.
Another design could be to have handles which are not in the full height of the strip and have rounded corners inwards(indicating direction).
Consider a hot zone in the center of a strip and a new mouse cursor in order to execute the Slip operator.
Consider making an e/w icon variation of then e/w/n/s icon for when handles are transformed, since they can't be moved up or down.
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Thanks for the update on this. A couple of suggestions:
@fsiddi Chat is down so will respond here - will kick the bot, just wanted to do some fixes. There is still minor discrepancy on how transform works when you use right and left mouse button. LMB in RCS works as expected, all other modes won't deselect neighboring handle when moving only one of them. Will fix that.
With modified keymap, this feature can be optional as we wanted, but there will be some weird items that are basically blocked by select and frame change operator. It is bit more readable now, but still worth documenting
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As noted above, when selecting/transforming two adjoined handles, the selected handle on one of the sides is not visible(looks like the outline).
https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/attachments/b80eb3f9-6054-4c1c-b60f-96af62c0e353 Both selected handles should be visible.
As the mouse cursor should illustrate what happens when the user is clicking, when two adjoined handles are selected, the mouse cursor should not be changed to single side transform, since this in not what will happen:
During a transform operation, the mouse cursor is changed from the handle cursor to n/s/e/w cursor. Imo, it should stay as handle cursor.
The little arrow on the single sided handle cursor seems redundant, and even misleading, as if you only can move the handle one direction?
There could also be a hot zone in the middle of a strip for the Slip operation and the mouse cursor could look like this: [ ]
WIP: VSE handle drawing/tweaking experimentto VSE handle drawing/tweaking experimentSeems, that handle size is sometimes drawn as 5px, sometimes as 4px. Will rebase this patch and check how this can be resolved. In meanwhile, will just increase handle width so I don't mix fixes in this patch.
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The multiple challenges of thin handles were already addressed here:
https://archive.blender.org/developer/differential/0010/0010297/index.html
This imprecise drawing of the line width, make thin handles disappear and blend in with the outline. A solution to this in the above link was to either select outlines or handles, and never both. When you think about it, there is no reason for having both selected. And not having the outline selected when a handle is selected makes the handle stand out.
Another problem is the two adjoined handles may look like one, to solve this problem, a separating line was introduced, and with bracket shapes added, made it very clear in what direction the handle went (and what strip the handle belonged to).
In addition to these challenges, when zoomed out in the timeline, the handles become very small and potentially invisible(especially when they're thin to begin with) - has this been dealt with in this patch?
Since there are no replies to any of my comments above, I wonder if the addressed problems are not considered problems, or what is going on here?
Makes sense, will try that.
I think, that having black outline visible when handle is selected may be necessary, since both strips share that pixel as start/end.
Don't think, that this is an issue really. Currently it is not possible to select handles when they are too small and I did not change it here.
This started with simple goal - to draw cursor when hovering over handle + to make them slimmer. More changes I would rather separate unless they are necessary for functionality.
When releasing (only after dragging), deselect the handle and leave the strip selected. This allows us to still select individual and multiple handles, but allows us to quickly transform a whole strip once is has been resized.
I can do that, but with current setup, handles would be deselected even if you press G key, which I don't think is desirable. The only way transform operator can discriminate between 2 behaviors is whether this tweaking method is enabled in preferences.
Maybe I can hack in some form of signalling in
SpaceSeq::runtime
, but that would be based on mouse cursor position and unreliable.Though looking at
TransInfo
, there isis_launch_event_drag
field, so will check that out. Would definitely simplify things...@blender-bot package
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The mouse cursor, when moving the cursor over a narrow strip, it feels like the click point in the cursor is jumping back/forth(left/right) because the click point is actually changing position, and this feels wrong. The click point in left/center/right handle cursor should be in the same place. So, I would say in the left/right mouse cursor, the vertical bar and the click point should be in the center and the tiny arrow should be removed. This way will the horizontal line in the left/right handle cursor change side and the vertical line will stay in the same place.
Also, it feels like the hot zones are too big in a strip with a considerable size you will not get the grab strip(not handle option):
In the center area, the n/s/e/w cursor could be used? (Also then pressing "S" for slide)?
When handles are selected and pressing "G" only e/w cursor should be used, bc they can't be moved up/down.
When transforming adjoined handles, they look asymmetrical(outline when drag is imprecise?):
Have you tried removing outlines when handles are selected? As suggested above?
IMO, there is no need to both have an outline and a handle selected.
In the 3D View, you do not have both have a vertex and the object selected.
Previously you could not transform effect strips with fixed length like cross, you can do that now. I guess that til is a bug?
Was there a limit before so you could not drag like this, but only to the allowed point? Looks wonky.
I don't know. Personally I feel lost when using cursors without arrows. I would like to gather more feedback on this point, but I wouldn't mind either variant.
That seems to be correct, will fix
I mean it could be used, but it is for different purpose. The handle cursor only indicates what you are clicking on, NSEW cursor indicates what you can do or what will happen after clicking. This patch is pretty much pre-selection indicator, but with cursor instead element highlighting.
I have played with this briefly, but wasn't able to fix it. Maybe this is some pixel alignment issue with view coords, not sure.
Yep, tat's a bug
Nope, there wasn't such limit. Not impossible to implement, there already is limit for strip length.
If you want to keep the arrows, then maybe try to keep the selection point the same place in the mouse cursor icon. In other words, keep the point the arrows are pointing at the very same place in all VSE selection/trimming icons.
IMO, have the elements highlighting still a place, especially if the unselected handle indicators are removed(they should be visible, when hover). On the nsew, another wording would be, that it is simply wrong to use it after a handle has been selected, because in that case is it impossible to move ns. And the EW icon will be an indication of what will happen if you click and drag at that point.
In my attempt, mentioned above, I kept a black line between the strips in all states, so the strips will not be "fighting" over the center pixel, and make things asymmetrical.
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Good progress. A couple of notes:
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@fsiddi Updated the patch with suggestions. Not sure if you want handles as standalone overlay, or whether this should be updated when you enable/disable Tweak Handles option. Right now it is standalone overlay option.
It's better, but there is still an issue, when strips get narrow:
It doesn't feel very clear and solid what will happen if you click at a specific point this way. Imo, some hover highlighting of the handle area is needed to make it more predictable and easy to read what is being clicked. The click area of the handles could light up like these buttons(I mean, it is not a new concept in Blender that things you can click lights up when hovering over them):
@tintwotin Thanks for noticing that, will fix. I think the idea behind cursor is to emulate gizmo. Some gizmos use highlighting as well so this could be done with handles.
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Looks good to me. Get some code review and merge!
I would recommend doing a test-build and get community feedback on it, since this is a major change in how it feels to work in the VSE. As mentioned, without handle hover highlighting, it feels very random in what area you need to click to select a handle, especially when the strips are narrow. Did Hjalti test it?
Should definitely make a test build and make a feedback thread on devtalk. The hover effect is something done in properties editor, but not in other parts of Blender, I rather stay aligned with that for the time being. Hjalti is not a fan of this feature, so I don't think he will use it. As a matter of fact, it's possible to configure Blender to its original behavior and completely ignore this.
Will have to go over this patch again myself, as the code is not great. Will make feedback thread.
I had to edit some footage today, so I used this patch.
Some workflows are worse off:
Some better
Also noticed, that handles are drawn on too small strips, will have to fix that too, since now it is guesswork to know at which zoom level the handle can be selected.
I rarely use adjoined selection (in this edit 0 times eh :), so I would say it's downside for me, since it interferes with handle selection when strips are next to each other, but can imagine some users loving it.
Overall I would like to have option to just disable adjoined selection behavior and perhaps make the cursor somehow slimmer.
08b3db9e95
to3ffc3e7f2f
VSE handle drawing/tweaking experimentto VSE: improved handle tweaking@blender-bot package
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Had some issues applying the patch, so was testing builds from https://builder.blender.org/download/patch/PR109522/
There is something very wrong with the keymap and overall behavior:
Will update the patch. Not sure if I tested this on Mac last time I updated patch, but there isn't anything too OS specific, maybe DPI scale...
I can reproduce issue with RMB scrubbing, it works here for about 50% of time, will fix this.
Other issues I was not able to reproduce. Will also doublecheck on Mac.
Thanks for the update, it seems to have helped with some of the points from my previous comment, but not all of them.
For example, frame scrubbing is still not possible outside of the timecode header with RMB selection.
Also, the hot-zones feels smaller to what they are for area edge sliding, or node edge resizing.
Indeed, checking now on mac, and this still needs some work.
@Sergey The issues you have mentioned should be fixed.
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@ -946,2 +946,4 @@
}
if (!USER_VERSION_ATLEAST(402, 19)) {
userdef->sequencer_editor_flag |= USER_SEQ_ED_SIMPLE_TWEAKING;
userdef_default.cc
needs to have thesequencer_editor_flag
flag set as well. Otherwiseblender --factory-startup
does not have the new intended behavior.@ -230,6 +246,9 @@ static int change_frame_invoke(bContext *C, wmOperator *op, const wmEvent *event
if (CTX_wm_space_seq(C) != nullptr && region->regiontype == RGN_TYPE_PREVIEW) {
return OPERATOR_CANCELLED;
}
if (sequencer_skip_for_handle_tweak(C, event)) {
Generic animation system operator should not worry about sequencer.
The way such dependencies were commonly used is via order of operators in the keymap. If sequencer tweaking needs to take priority, it should be in the list first, and the rest of operators should not be adjusting to the behavior of other operators.
The issue here is, that we want left click to tweak and also scrub. Only other way to achieve this would be to passthrough from sequencer select operator. But to achieve that, it would need to check if it was invoked by left or right click. I guess I could add hidden operator property which would distinguish how it was invoked. Either way it is hacky.
Why can't the handle tweak event always return
PASS_THROUGH
when it is invoked outside of any handle's hot area?Because it is select operator and if I am not mistaken in RCS it is not modal. At least it isn't when invoked with left click.
@ -46,3 +49,3 @@
void ED_sequencer_special_preview_set(bContext *C, const int mval[2]);
void ED_sequencer_special_preview_clear();
bool sequencer_retiming_mode_is_active(const bContext *C);
bool sequencer_retiming_mode_is_active(const Scene *scene);
Why is the
sequencer_retiming_mode_is_active
changing with this PR?I would guess that at some point I tried to use it from place with no access to
bContext
, but then changed this again.Will revert this change.
Some feedback to finalize this patch from the UX standpoint:
@fsiddi
Tweak handles is enabled by default. It could be, that you have your own startup file, AFAIK these are not changed by versioning. Eeh not sure, perhaps adding this to
userdef_default.c
would solve the issue for you.In RCS, when dragging with left click, only 1 element moves, when dragging with right click, whole selection moves. I have a feeling, that we have discussed this, but could be mistaken. Will change this to work same way with both buttons.
shift click drag is not a thing? What is that supposed to do?
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Yes, please.
Nothing, you are right. Was expecting precision tweak, but that happens only after you click.
@fsiddi Right so I did that. You can test the new build.
Ok I did that, so you can test the new build.
Some final visual adjustments to the cursor. Notice the updated position. This might still not be perfect as I could not test the changes directly in the code.
Also, a suggestion on the design itself.
I assume this means, that you want cursor to be centered? I had build like that for feedback, but was likely broken when I checked devtalk thread now... Anyway, it's simple change so will do that, even though I don't like it that way - The triangle is supposed to be mini cursor, which is aligned with mouse position. Perhaps it could be removed, or those triangles could be drawn on both sides.
Currently only 16x16 pure black/white/transparent are supported by these cursor definitions. I could look at other type of cursors that are used for transformation, those seem to support at least grayscale, but not sure if these can be used in this case.
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@iss Could this be updated to the latest
main
please? It'd make it easier to review as I'm having issues which I'm not sure are part of this PR or already fixed in main.(for example, I can't select time-locked strips)
@pablovazquez Updated PR. Can reproduce no selection with locked strips. Will fix.
7322bbf4b2
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It would help to move all the non-functional changes refactors to main, to help understanding what's going on here, and whether the added complexity is really inevitable.
For example, changes like
Sequence *SEQ_select_active_get(Scene *scene);
->Sequence *SEQ_select_active_get(const Scene *scene);
,selected_strips_from_context
->ED_sequencer_selected_strips_from_context
,bool retiming_keys_are_visible(const bContext *C)
->bool retiming_keys_are_visible(const SpaceSeq *sseq)
.I can do that, the commit would make little sense out of context of this PR. So I will reference this PR in commit message.
@iss Sounds good!
Also, if there are some other non-functional-changes/cleanup possible to extract from this PR which wasn't so obvious on an initial read, feel free to to the same :)
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