Face overlay still not resolve. #110048

Open
opened 2023-07-13 10:38:20 +02:00 by Kent Davis · 47 comments
First-time contributor

System Information
Operating system: macOS-13.5-x86_64-i386-64bit 64 Bits
Graphics card: Metal API AMD Radeon Pro 575 1.2

Blender Version
Broken: version: 4.0.0 Alpha, branch: main, commit date: 2023-07-12 23:36, hash: 5f7e07e05321
Worked: 3.4.1

Short description of error
Depth offset in Metal overlay is much larger than seen in OpenGL

OpenGL Metal
OpenGL.png OpenGL.png

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

  • Open attached .blend file
**System Information** Operating system: macOS-13.5-x86_64-i386-64bit 64 Bits Graphics card: Metal API AMD Radeon Pro 575 1.2 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 4.0.0 Alpha, branch: main, commit date: 2023-07-12 23:36, hash: `5f7e07e05321` Worked: 3.4.1 **Short description of error** Depth offset in Metal overlay is much larger than seen in OpenGL | OpenGL | Metal | |---|---| | ![OpenGL.png](attachments/f2b7b8d1-eba1-428d-9d02-106bbf0343bb) | ![OpenGL.png](attachments/8a073340-4885-42f4-a763-7f0a5298d030) | **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** - Open attached .blend file
Kent Davis added the
Type
Report
Status
Needs Triage
Priority
Normal
labels 2023-07-13 10:38:20 +02:00
YimingWu added
Module
EEVEE & Viewport
Status
Confirmed
and removed
Status
Needs Triage
labels 2023-07-14 04:56:36 +02:00
Member

Unable to confirm myself but will raise the priority if others are still observing.
cc @bonj

Unable to confirm myself but will raise the priority if others are still observing. cc @bonj
Pratik Borhade added
Priority
High
and removed
Priority
Normal
labels 2023-07-14 06:48:34 +02:00
Contributor

There are two bugs, and it is not clear which one you are reporting here.
Considering you're on Apple I'm guessing your faces are blue even though the retopology overlay is disabled?
That's issue #109662 / #109779 which I fixed in pull #109658.
Updating to the latest daily build will fix that.
If after updating you're having different offset issues, let me know.

There are two bugs, and it is not clear which one you are reporting here. Considering you're on Apple I'm guessing your faces are blue even though the retopology overlay is disabled? That's issue #109662 / #109779 which I fixed in pull #109658. Updating to the latest daily build will fix that. If after updating you're having different offset issues, let me know.
Contributor

You may also be referring to offset being wrong when zoomed far in, which should already be fixed by pull #109657.
I would really appreciate if you would edit the description of this issue to be comprehensible, and perhaps attach a video.
And please use the latest build to confirm whether your issue isn't already fixed.

You may also be referring to offset being wrong when zoomed far in, which should already be fixed by pull #109657. I would really appreciate if you would edit the description of this issue to be comprehensible, and perhaps attach a video. And please use the latest build to confirm whether your issue isn't already fixed.
Author
First-time contributor

https://youtu.be/qordD2-MIIk
You still don't understand. We already show clear. you should get download my file and tell you.

https://youtu.be/qordD2-MIIk You still don't understand. We already show clear. you should get download my file and tell you.
Contributor

With retopology overlay:
image

Without retopology overlay:
image

I can not reproduce your issue.
Please download the latest 4.0.0 or 3.6.1 build from https://builder.blender.org

With retopology overlay: ![image](/attachments/f5dd982c-bbc5-4680-882c-8fc32f63d2b2) Without retopology overlay: ![image](/attachments/6925067f-62ee-4b95-aeea-c6da48db19a7) I can not reproduce your issue. Please download the latest 4.0.0 or 3.6.1 build from https://builder.blender.org
160 KiB
165 KiB
Author
First-time contributor

@bonj
I already latest download Blender 4.0.0 today. I always do latest already to tell you.

Please tell me full screenshot. I don't know where "retopology"?
I do use Macintosh.

@bonj I already latest download Blender 4.0.0 today. I always do latest already to tell you. Please tell me full screenshot. I don't know where "retopology"? I do use Macintosh.
Author
First-time contributor

I just found youtube. There is NOT REPOLOGY!
I am show you picture there still bug!
image

I just found youtube. There is NOT REPOLOGY! I am show you picture there still bug! ![image](/attachments/8461f082-b65b-4c70-8bdd-bb9106f42714)
3.3 MiB
Contributor

Because I did not previously know whether you were using the retopology overlay or not, I provided screenshots for both scenarios.
As I can not reproduce this issue, someone who owns an Apple computer will have to look into it.
I'll try to find someone else who can help. Until then, you're on your own.

Because I did not previously know whether you were using the retopology overlay or not, I provided screenshots for both scenarios. As I can not reproduce this issue, someone who owns an Apple computer will have to look into it. I'll try to find someone else who can help. Until then, you're on your own.
Author
First-time contributor

@PratikPB2123 Please send to Apple Macintosh please.
@bonj Do you have your own Macintosh yourself?

@PratikPB2123 Please send to Apple Macintosh please. @bonj Do you have your own Macintosh yourself?
Author
First-time contributor

image
image

![image](/attachments/889f1156-8c78-44f2-a311-09d2bed74264) ![image](/attachments/3272b69c-25dd-4169-ac13-c882cbb1278f)
3.1 MiB
5.3 MiB
Author
First-time contributor

My file there.

My file there.
Contributor

@bonj Do you have your own Macintosh yourself?

Nope, just Windows 10.
Blender is volunteer work for me so I'm not going to buy a Mac just to debug this issue.

> @bonj Do you have your own Macintosh yourself? Nope, just Windows 10. Blender is volunteer work for me so I'm not going to buy a Mac just to debug this issue.
Author
First-time contributor

Ok. I am wait for some one on Macintosh.

Ok. I am wait for some one on Macintosh.
Member

Hi, if I understand correctly, you're observing overlay drawing issue on selected face, right?
Does this problem occur with both OpenGL and Metal viewport backend?
@mano-wii , can you verify this on Mac?

Hi, if I understand correctly, you're observing overlay drawing issue on selected face, right? Does this problem occur with both OpenGL and Metal viewport backend? @mano-wii , can you verify this on Mac?
Author
First-time contributor

@PratikPB2123
sure I just change from Metal to OpenGl then quit then open cause crash too fast. I unable to open app any more because of OpenGL (Blender 4.0)

@PratikPB2123 sure I just change from Metal to OpenGl then quit then open cause crash too fast. I unable to open app any more because of OpenGL (Blender 4.0)
Member

Will reset the status for now.

Will reset the status for now.
Pratik Borhade added
Status
Needs Triage
and removed
Status
Confirmed
labels 2023-07-18 05:30:16 +02:00
Author
First-time contributor

ok

ok
Author
First-time contributor

@PratikPB2123
I did put Library / Application Support / Blender / 4.0 and rename to 4.0 hold then open Blender.

Preferences and system tab and change Metal tab and change OpenGL then quit Blender then open cause crash too fast.

@PratikPB2123 I did put Library / Application Support / Blender / 4.0 and rename to 4.0 hold then open Blender. Preferences and system tab and change Metal tab and change OpenGL then quit Blender then open cause crash too fast.
Contributor

Best continue using Metal then.
I do wonder, could you go to your Preferences -> Theme -> 3D View and show us what the Retopology color is?
If it's not set (transparant), try setting it to something obvious like a bright red (make sure to set the alpha too).
Then tell us if unselected faces become that color when the retopology overlay is enabled, and especially if they become that color when it is disabled.
Because if that's the case it means the retopology overlay is always on, an issue unique to Metal which I thought I fixed, but am unable to test.
I'm going on vacation today so won't be writing any code regardless, but still good to know more details for other developers.

Best continue using Metal then. I do wonder, could you go to your Preferences -> Theme -> 3D View and show us what the Retopology color is? If it's not set (transparant), try setting it to something obvious like a bright red (make sure to set the alpha too). Then tell us if unselected faces become that color when the retopology overlay is enabled, and especially if they become that color when it is disabled. Because if that's the case it means the retopology overlay is always on, an issue unique to Metal which I thought I fixed, but am unable to test. I'm going on vacation today so won't be writing any code regardless, but still good to know more details for other developers.
Author
First-time contributor

I put folder "4.0 hold" make full DAFAULT and open and show you picture still bug.
Hard for me understand text only. Please show us your screenshot and I will look picture and I get know where.
image
image

I put folder "4.0 hold" make full DAFAULT and open and show you picture still bug. Hard for me understand text only. Please show us your screenshot and I will look picture and I get know where. ![image](/attachments/dc3dad1c-6a58-4eaf-9fc0-0ac6f5d4b78b) ![image](/attachments/16ed3be3-207f-4853-b9af-072ebec1b377)
2.4 MiB
3.2 MiB
Author
First-time contributor

@PratikPB2123 Yes you are exactly right and correct he know.
Metal too many BUG!
OpenGL is fine.
Focus on METAL please fix it.

@bonj No you are wrong answer. That is NOT RETOPOLOGY!
Not focus for Retopology forget it.

@PratikPB2123 Yes you are exactly right and correct he know. Metal too many BUG! OpenGL is fine. Focus on METAL please fix it. @bonj No you are wrong answer. That is NOT RETOPOLOGY! Not focus for Retopology forget it.
Author
First-time contributor

Make sure don't forget about
VERTEX
EDGE
FACE
on METAL fix everything complete.

Make sure don't forget about VERTEX EDGE FACE on METAL fix everything complete.
Contributor

I'm not saying you should enable the retopology overlay, I'm saying it may be possible that it is always enabled, even if you uncheck the box.
This was an issue before, though I fixed it, I thought maybe the fix didn't work.
I had assumed this was related to the retopology overlay because of the way it mentions other overlay issues that were related to retopology.
If this issue has nothing to do with the retopology overlay, then there's nothing I can do.
It's already being looked into by Michael Parkin White, the resident Metal expert, so hopefully he'll figure things out.

I'm not saying you should enable the retopology overlay, I'm saying it may be possible that it is always enabled, even if you uncheck the box. This was an issue before, though I fixed it, I thought maybe the fix didn't work. I had assumed this was related to the retopology overlay because of the way it mentions other overlay issues that were related to retopology. If this issue has nothing to do with the retopology overlay, then there's nothing I can do. It's already being looked into by Michael Parkin White, the resident Metal expert, so hopefully he'll figure things out.
Author
First-time contributor

Please send @ name to focus Mac and they can look up OpenGL -VS- Metal.
Do not use Retopology.
Blender 3.4.1 is fine, 3.5 cause bug and up bug still. If you do Windows then you do not answer. If they do use Macintosh and they can answer. Too many other of them windows and they don't understand Macintosh many times. @PratikPB2123 know already.

Please send @ name to focus Mac and they can look up OpenGL -VS- Metal. Do not use Retopology. Blender 3.4.1 is fine, 3.5 cause bug and up bug still. If you do Windows then you do not answer. If they do use Macintosh and they can answer. Too many other of them windows and they don't understand Macintosh many times. @PratikPB2123 know already.
Contributor

Here is a revised description of this issue:

System Information
Operating system: macOS-13.5-x86_64-i386-64bit 64 Bits
Graphics card: Metal API AMD Radeon Pro 575 1.2

Blender Version
Broken: Blender 3.5 apparently
Worked: Blender 3.4

Short description of error
Edit mode edges show through faces that are in front of them.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Download the blend file and enter edit mode.
More detailed steps wouldn't hurt but if you have the bug on your computer you'll find it quickly enough either way.

Notes:
This issue has nothing to do with the retopology overlay.
It also has no relation to other similar looking issues such as #109040 or #109662, which are both already fixed.
It is unique to Metal, possibly only on AMD.

Here is a revised description of this issue: System Information Operating system: macOS-13.5-x86_64-i386-64bit 64 Bits Graphics card: Metal API AMD Radeon Pro 575 1.2 Blender Version Broken: Blender 3.5 apparently Worked: Blender 3.4 Short description of error Edit mode edges show through faces that are in front of them. Exact steps for others to reproduce the error Download the blend file and enter edit mode. More detailed steps wouldn't hurt but if you have the bug on your computer you'll find it quickly enough either way. Notes: This issue has nothing to do with the retopology overlay. It also has no relation to other similar looking issues such as #109040 or #109662, which are both already fixed. It is unique to Metal, possibly only on AMD.
Author
First-time contributor

You said "I'm not saying you should enable the retopology overlay, I'm saying it may be possible that it is always enabled, even if you uncheck the box." please show me your screenshot.

You said "I'm not saying you should enable the retopology overlay, I'm saying it may be possible that it is always enabled, even if you uncheck the box." please show me your screenshot.
Contributor

If I'd known you've been having this issue since 3.5 I wouldn't have spent so much time on it, since my contributions start at 3.6.

If I'd known you've been having this issue since 3.5 I wouldn't have spent so much time on it, since my contributions start at 3.6.
Author
First-time contributor

go ahead 3.6.1 and 4.0

go ahead 3.6.1 and 4.0
Contributor

You said "I'm not saying you should enable the retopology overlay, I'm saying it may be possible that it is always enabled, even if you uncheck the box." please show me your screenshot.

I'm afraid I can not, as I'm departing now (I'm typing this on my phone).
You can ignore my comments about the retopology overlay, as it appears to be irrelevant.

> You said "I'm not saying you should enable the retopology overlay, I'm saying it may be possible that it is always enabled, even if you uncheck the box." please show me your screenshot. I'm afraid I can not, as I'm departing now (I'm typing this on my phone). You can ignore my comments about the retopology overlay, as it appears to be irrelevant.
Author
First-time contributor

Ok

Ok
First-time contributor

Thanks Kent, looking into this.

Able to reproduce locally. There were a number of similar patches to resolve related issues, though this particular one is caused by Z-fighting of two coplanar surfaces intersecting.

Still deciding what the best solution for this problem should be, as the depth differences has been resolved, but this is caused by the Object ID in the G-buffer intersecting. The actual artifact comes from the SMAA, but afaik, only affects transparent workbench rendering when the wireframe is enabled.

I.e. a solution may be slightly awkward but will discuss with the Viewport folks.

Thanks Kent, looking into this. Able to reproduce locally. There were a number of similar patches to resolve related issues, though this particular one is caused by Z-fighting of two coplanar surfaces intersecting. Still deciding what the best solution for this problem should be, as the depth differences has been resolved, but this is caused by the Object ID in the G-buffer intersecting. The actual artifact comes from the SMAA, but afaik, only affects transparent workbench rendering when the wireframe is enabled. I.e. a solution may be slightly awkward but will discuss with the Viewport folks.
Contributor

go ahead 3.6.1 and 4.0

Yes I know the issue hasn't been fixed, but what I'm saying is I'm not the one who caused it, and the inner workings of Metal are beyond my expertise.

> go ahead 3.6.1 and 4.0 Yes I know the issue hasn't been fixed, but what I'm saying is I'm not the one who caused it, and the inner workings of Metal are beyond my expertise.
Author
First-time contributor

Thanks Kent, looking into this.

Able to reproduce locally. There were a number of similar patches to resolve related issues, though this particular one is caused by Z-fighting of two coplanar surfaces intersecting.

Still deciding what the best solution for this problem should be, as the depth differences has been resolved, but this is caused by the Object ID in the G-buffer intersecting. The actual artifact comes from the SMAA, but afaik, only affects transparent workbench rendering when the wireframe is enabled.

I.e. a solution may be slightly awkward but will discuss with the Viewport folks.

@Michael-Parkin-White-Apple
#110048 (comment)
Yes look at my link

> Thanks Kent, looking into this. > > Able to reproduce locally. There were a number of similar patches to resolve related issues, though this particular one is caused by Z-fighting of two coplanar surfaces intersecting. > > Still deciding what the best solution for this problem should be, as the depth differences has been resolved, but this is caused by the Object ID in the G-buffer intersecting. The actual artifact comes from the SMAA, but afaik, only affects transparent workbench rendering when the wireframe is enabled. > > I.e. a solution may be slightly awkward but will discuss with the Viewport folks. @Michael-Parkin-White-Apple https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/issues/110048#issuecomment-982064 Yes look at my link
Germano Cavalcante added
Status
Confirmed
Interest
Metal
and removed
Status
Needs Triage
labels 2023-07-18 16:15:34 +02:00

I can confirm that the overlay on Metal is not very good and is different from OpenGL.
(I edited the description to make the problem clearer).

I can confirm that the overlay on Metal is not very good and is different from OpenGL. (I edited the description to make the problem clearer).
Author
First-time contributor

I can confirm that the overlay on Metal is not very good and is different from OpenGL.
(I edited the description to make the problem clearer).

Thanks.

> I can confirm that the overlay on Metal is not very good and is different from OpenGL. > (I edited the description to make the problem clearer). Thanks.
Contributor

(I edited the description to make the problem clearer).

The last working version is set to 3.5, but if I understood correctly the issue actually started with 3.5, so the last working version should be 3.4.1.

> (I edited the description to make the problem clearer). The last working version is set to 3.5, but if I understood correctly the issue actually started with 3.5, so the last working version should be 3.4.1.
Author
First-time contributor

Look at version to tell you. #109040 (comment)

Look at version to tell you. https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/issues/109040#issuecomment-973724
Author
First-time contributor

@Alaska
You may check there overlap and make sure to Developers to fix a bug all Vertex, Edge, and Face without make overlap.

@Alaska You may check there overlap and make sure to Developers to fix a bug all Vertex, Edge, and Face without make overlap.
Author
First-time contributor

I am still wait for you to fix it.

I am still wait for you to fix it.
Author
First-time contributor

There still not resolve. THERE METAL on Cycles. Not for EEVEE.
Only focus on METAL for Mac only.
See picture.
image

also click "Image.png" and "Blender METAL Overlap.png" file on below too.

There still not resolve. THERE METAL on Cycles. Not for EEVEE. Only focus on METAL for Mac only. See picture. ![image](/attachments/b1a613af-a0e7-4ab2-b3b5-f91fb27f3129) also click "Image.png" and "Blender METAL Overlap.png" file on below too.
Author
First-time contributor

image

![image](/attachments/bf887b35-f44c-420b-b558-46d342a4b249)
Author
First-time contributor

@PratikPB2123 would you like to send only for Mac?

Broken: version: 4.0.0 Alpha, branch: main, commit date: 2023-09-04 23:08, hash: 8c826afc7ba1
Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected)

I am still wait for you to fix.

@PratikPB2123 would you like to send only for Mac? Broken: version: 4.0.0 Alpha, branch: main, commit date: 2023-09-04 23:08, hash: `8c826afc7ba1` Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected) I am still wait for you to fix.
First-time contributor

Hey, please remember that blender is mostly comprised of volunteers, so please remember to be patient and kind, as the vast majority of people here are not paid.
Thanks.

Hey, please remember that blender is mostly comprised of volunteers, so please remember to be patient and kind, as the vast majority of people here are not paid. Thanks.
Member

The change was added due to a limitation of the ARM based GPUs. ARM based GPUs use tiled rendering. Each area of 16 by 16 pixels can be discarded if the hardware think it is hidden under other geometry. In order to counteract this issue the Depth bias on Metal is increased to solve this issue, but that change introduces a bigger offset when using Metal compared to OpenGL as showed in the description.

There is a patch in the making (#112566) to distinguish between tiled based rendering and other rendering where it would be possible to only add the bias on ARM based GPUs. This would still make a difference between using ARM based GPUs and other GPUs. Eg this issue cannot be solved without introducing other artifacts.

I will mark this as a known issue for now and lower the priority.

The change was added due to a limitation of the ARM based GPUs. ARM based GPUs use tiled rendering. Each area of 16 by 16 pixels can be discarded if the hardware think it is hidden under other geometry. In order to counteract this issue the Depth bias on Metal is increased to solve this issue, but that change introduces a bigger offset when using Metal compared to OpenGL as showed in the description. There is a patch in the making (#112566) to distinguish between tiled based rendering and other rendering where it would be possible to only add the bias on ARM based GPUs. This would still make a difference between using ARM based GPUs and other GPUs. Eg this issue cannot be solved without introducing other artifacts. I will mark this as a known issue for now and lower the priority.
Jeroen Bakker added
Type
Known Issue
Priority
Normal
and removed
Type
Report
Priority
High
labels 2023-09-25 11:20:14 +02:00
Author
First-time contributor

The change was added due to a limitation of the ARM based GPUs. ARM based GPUs use tiled rendering. Each area of 16 by 16 pixels can be discarded if the hardware think it is hidden under other geometry. In order to counteract this issue the Depth bias on Metal is increased to solve this issue, but that change introduces a bigger offset when using Metal compared to OpenGL as showed in the description.

There is a patch in the making (#112566) to distinguish between tiled based rendering and other rendering where it would be possible to only add the bias on ARM based GPUs. This would still make a difference between using ARM based GPUs and other GPUs. Eg this issue cannot be solved without introducing other artifacts.

I will mark this as a known issue for now and lower the priority.

I do use Intel. Not M1 or M2.
M1 and M2 = ARM Apple Silicon
Intel = Intel.
I am use iMac Intel 2017 i5.

> The change was added due to a limitation of the ARM based GPUs. ARM based GPUs use tiled rendering. Each area of 16 by 16 pixels can be discarded if the hardware think it is hidden under other geometry. In order to counteract this issue the Depth bias on Metal is increased to solve this issue, but that change introduces a bigger offset when using Metal compared to OpenGL as showed in the description. > > There is a patch in the making (#112566) to distinguish between tiled based rendering and other rendering where it would be possible to only add the bias on ARM based GPUs. This would still make a difference between using ARM based GPUs and other GPUs. Eg this issue cannot be solved without introducing other artifacts. > > I will mark this as a known issue for now and lower the priority. I do use Intel. Not M1 or M2. M1 and M2 = ARM Apple Silicon Intel = Intel. I am use iMac Intel 2017 i5.
Member

Yes, that is what I try to explain to you. Currently the logic of intel + M1 are the same and cannot be changed. There is a patch that can separate them, but still under discussion.

But even with that patch applied is still not clear if it is ideal to make a differentiation between Intel and Apple Silicon for this case. Yes it fixes your issue on your system, but doesn't solve the issue for other systems and might introduces other reports report. Hence this report was lowered and set as known issue.

Yes, that is what I try to explain to you. Currently the logic of intel + M1 are the same and cannot be changed. There is a patch that can separate them, but still under discussion. But even with that patch applied is still not clear if it is ideal to make a differentiation between Intel and Apple Silicon for this case. Yes it fixes your issue on your system, but doesn't solve the issue for other systems and might introduces other reports report. Hence this report was lowered and set as known issue.
Author
First-time contributor

Yes, that is what I try to explain to you. Currently the logic of intel + M1 are the same and cannot be changed. There is a patch that can separate them, but still under discussion.

But even with that patch applied is still not clear if it is ideal to make a differentiation between Intel and Apple Silicon for this case. Yes it fixes your issue on your system, but doesn't solve the issue for other systems and might introduces other reports report. Hence this report was lowered and set as known issue.

Thank you for explain me
About that.

> Yes, that is what I try to explain to you. Currently the logic of intel + M1 are the same and cannot be changed. There is a patch that can separate them, but still under discussion. > > But even with that patch applied is still not clear if it is ideal to make a differentiation between Intel and Apple Silicon for this case. Yes it fixes your issue on your system, but doesn't solve the issue for other systems and might introduces other reports report. Hence this report was lowered and set as known issue. > Thank you for explain me About that.
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Reference: blender/blender#110048
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